New Analysis Video of the STS-75 Tether Incident

THE waste water from THE waste water tank was used to aid the fes trials.
that link jim goes into great detail about every fliud ounce of water onboard and takes some reading when you also read the hot/word/acronym links its a very large amount of data in very great detail.

fes is used for super cooling purposes during re-entry and you
are obviously unaware this trip and flight 73 had the switcher valve in use so as to re-redirect ALL waste water to the fes flushes as the fes was in constant use[trials] on this trip running very hot as part of the trials its venting of steam from the aft 2 nozzles in a non propulsive way was also part of the optical experiments and in fullswing before the tether launch as the tops camera was set up so as to view and film the interaction between the water molecules and the enviroment and they formed a halo of gas when ionized clearly viewable against the background gases as i quoted and linked nasa directly previously in this thread not more than 2 pages ago i would think.


its quite clear jim and selective quoting will not change that.

distraction posts like above about my chuffed comment will not change the facts either and wishful thinking by others wont either.

as the poster above says its got to be ice as those images are bokah. .. see he already has the answer now he just needs to backfit his theory which he has done.

ITS GOT TO BE, and wishful thinking to make it easy to explain dont matter ONLY DOCUMENTED FACT MATTERS

flights 75 and 73 were different and in 75s case the side nozzles normally used for dumping excess water were not in use for several reasons already explained and linked to.


i show quite clearly why flight 75 could not be surrounded by ice particles during the time the footage was shot and the response is to try and drown my posts out with nonesense kinda speaks volumes really.


if you think you know better than your nasa colleges who wrote those reports and articles jim then PROVE you know, selectively picking little parts of massive data pages and only posting the 10 or 20 words out of the thousand or more on the page doesnt cut it any more neither does please believe me im an expert etc etc..

you have access to far more data in you position with nasa than an ordinary joe like me you could easy show any records you wanted but instead you talk and you insult and you disclaim perfectly legitimate research.

however what YOU dont do is PROVE your stance.

why is that jim.???

instead we get this rubbish about chuffed etc.
come on mods clear up the 2 or 3 nonsense off topic ridiculously long posting over the word chuffed above please its blatant obfuscation from people who have had their comfort blanket stolen away from them..














[edit on 5-11-2009 by spacefan]

Originally posted by depthoffield
well, they do regular water dumps on this STS-75 mission. (or is it with FES?)


they are doing this periodically.

No matter a water or waste dump, those discs we see, are bokeh from closer small particles, and nobody could deny this...because it consists in the way optics works.


[edit on 5/11/09 by depthoffield]

that vid is good and you again think it strenghens your case.

well i humbly submit it does no such thing start the vid at 10mins.38secs onwards and listen carefully to what the astronaut says.
www.nss.org...



he says as he starts to exercise how very careful he /they have to be in order not to rock or disturd the shuttle in anyway during the crystal experiments such is the delicate nature of the crystal experiments onboard.
he then goes on to exercise normally as it was prior to the experiments start.

and jims stance has always been that there was a propulsive ejection of waste just prior to the footage being shot in order to account for the volume of objects.

just as i linked to prior the ejection methods normally used for waste water dumps were not in normal practise on flight 75 as they are released thru pressurised side nozzle which exerts a propulsive effect on the shuttle which needs compensated for with a thruster burn and it was imperitive to the crystal experiments for a smooth undisturded enviroment.

the devil i am affriad is in the detail and flight 75 had remit that had to include the right enviromental conditions to do what they were sent to do, wishing and hoping wont make ice so, the crystal experiments were in full swing during the period the footage is shot.

no ice no ice theory.

the camera did have in my opinion peculiar opitical effects but what the camera is distorting is still to be explained.

i am not here to piss on anybodies chips i just want to understand better what i am looking at in the footage.

i know ive spoiled the party with there being no ice and thats probably why i dont have any of those little blue star thingies but i will get into forum ethics and gadgets if i decide to join in on any other threads.







[edit on 5-11-2009 by spacefan]

reply to post by depthoffield

Well regarding water dump...just before (www.abovetopsecret.com... ) i posted extracts from a NASA study and it was a reply exactly to you! You ignore what the study says...

I have been ignoring nothing.
The complete study has not been available to me until now.
I've read it and it changes nothing.

For
fixed solar angle the observed temporal decay of the particles reflects a real drop in concentration, since detection sensitivity is a constant. The number
of visual particles in each 2.7 s exposure is plotted in Figure 2 from the end
of the dump until orbital sunset 19 min later.

That is a figure showing what the particle concentration is 19 minutes after a finished dump.

The clearing time (e-fold) following a water dump is 2 to 10 min depending on
attitude.

Source Pages 6, 12.

Originally posted by spacefan
flights 75 and 73 were different and in 75s case the side nozzles normally used for dumping excess water were not in use for several reasons already explained and linked to.


i show quite clearly why flight 75 could not be surrounded by ice particles during the time the footage was shot and the response is to try and drown my posts out with nonesense kinda speaks volumes really.

well, the sequence posted before by me, from STS-75, shows a big water dump, with propulsive effects, and, then, at night, a lot of ice particles following the shuttle.
That demonstrates that water dumps, even more or less prohibited during sensible experiments (or using FES), were done in the mission, of course, when timings permits, just like the astronaut say: "we are doing this perriodically to maintain the water in the tanks".

Originally posted by spacefan
that vid is good and you again think it strenghens your case.

well i humbly submit it does no such thing start the vid at 10mins.38secs onwards and listen carefully to what the astronaut says.
www.nss.org...


he says as he starts to exercise how very careful he /they have to be in order not to rock or disturd the shuttle in anyway during the crystal experiments such is the delicate nature of the crystal experiments onboard.
he then goes on to exercise normally as it was prior to the experiments start.

So what: here you said about the moments when indeed no shaking was permitted.

Do you have any proof that prior or during the filming of the tether (on 29 feb mostly sure was this), there was a period of such prohibition?

Well, i have clues from this video, the LunaCognita analysys, that the RCS system was in action when the shot was done, because we see sudden deviations on the trajectories of multiple particles, (and also the stars)appearing on the same time!. I demonstrated this before, in this thread, if you missed this, i could search again if you are not aware of that.

More, i've just found this report from NASA sts-75: science.ksc.nasa.gov...

and the rellevant information, look for (mine) highlights:

TSS-1R/USMP-3 Public Affairs Status Report #14
6:00 a.m. CST, March 1, 1996
7/15:42 MET
Spacelab Mission Operations Control
Marshall Space Flight Center

[]

Yesterday, [29 feb] the Advanced Automated Directional Solidification Furnace (AADSF) team members adjusted their timeline, delaying the first crystal processing run until later today[1 march], to ensure that conditions are right for their solidification techniques. AADSF team members can tell that solidification has begun in their furnace when a "seed" or solid core forms in the molten lead-tin-telluride, a sample of semiconductor material. In ground-based solidification, this seed formation would normally show up as a "spike," or sharp rise and fall,
in the temperature data the team receives from the experiment.

When the seed formed more slowly than expected Thursday [29 feb], appearing as a "hump" instead of a spike in the data plot, due to the low-gravity environment, the team re-melted their sample to again verify the exact time of seed formation. Having accomplished this, they decided to wait for the next period of reduced crew activity, scheduled for this
evening, in order to take maximum advantage of the relatively
undisturbed microgravity environment. Such "quiescent periods" are
necessary to allow each of three crystal samples to develop in the
best possible growth conditions.

You see.... during the period of the tether videos there was no microgravity experiment in action... it seems very clear that they delayed the microgravity experiments until 1 march.....quite good oportunity for a water dump!! (needed perriodically).


2 poinst FOR a water dump before tether filmings:
- RCS in action - seen on movie as an effect of the particles trajectories
- microgravity delayed





[edit on 5/11/09 by depthoffield]

Originally posted by Balez
The complete study has not been available to me until now.
I've read it and it changes nothing.

well, it says there exactly about particles from water dump entering on FOV, no matter the water dump was ejected on a opposite side.

This contradicts you understanding of physics on spaceflight, this was my point.

Originally posted by spacefan
i show quite clearly why flight 75 could not be surrounded by ice particles during the time the footage was shot and the response is to try and drown my posts out with nonesense kinda speaks volumes really.

Are you sure that it could not be surrounded by ice particles during that time? Do you know what time it was they made that footage? Without that information we are still guessing.

Yes, that could change the time of the experiments and the time of the water or vapour discharges, but does that mean that this time coincided with the footage? We do not know, we only have half of the data we need.

I read once another description of the events on that mission, I will look for that site and I will post that information (I think I had already posted it, if I did I will just post a link to my previous post) later.

the footage was shot at about midnight 29/2 1/3 armap.



looks like jims colleges are cleaning house.

try clicking the hotlinks now on those pages for the experiments

error pages now only.

how long will it take them to make everything fit your scenario jim.


USMP-3
PAGE NOT FOUND

mephisto
PAGE NOT FOUND

sams
zeta.lerc.nasa.gov...
Internet Explorer cannot display the webpage

(AADSF
dragon.larc.nasa.gov...
The webpage cannot be found

ZENO Critical Fluid Light Scattering
roissy.umd.edu...
Internet Explorer cannot display the webpage


and all the others aswell i would guess shame on you jim and shame on nasa.
i suppose its big boys games and big boys rules but its pretty obvious that you only use forums to entice people to dispute your theory with fact and then dissapear the fact.

nasa dont want you people to know there was no ice so you can still squabble amongst yourselves for months and years to come because they will never tell you the truth.

and anyone lucky enough like i was in finding a damning contradiction to the official blag and shows the evidence/data
will find it re-edited and re-organised good luck to those that continue to seek answers but this is a no win situation they dont want us to know simple as that well too late as i now know there was no ice and so does anyone else who had the time and interest to read the data i put infront of this forum.

[edit on 5-11-2009 by spacefan]

[edit on 5-11-2009 by spacefan]

reply to post by spacefan


No it doesn't have to be ice any small point source of light which is out of focus will look like that so it could be ice,dust,particles from tiles as long as it reflects enough light to be seen SO cut the ice only CR@P!

Originally posted by spacefan
the footage was shot at about midnight 29/2 1/3 armap.

Can we be sure of that? Could you please point me to where that is written, I missed it.

And for old pages you can always use the Wayback Machine, I tried the first two links and they are there.

crack on m8.

you have free reign now to spin your ice crystal lens theory until the cows come home now.

i had no vested interest in the outcome just AN interest for personal satisfaction.

i now know that there are high authorities at work here now the relevent data i supplied is being airbrushed out of existence and touching on such a raw nerve with jim and his bosses enough to warrant denial of access to the late comers heres is all i need to see to know nasa will never tell you there info and will actively block you gaining any insight.

unfortunately jims unending disinfo and barefaced lies are all you will eve get from him and nasa.

by lies i only mean the ones he has told here and has been proven in.

[edit on 5-11-2009 by spacefan]

Originally posted by ArMaP

Originally posted by spacefan
the footage was shot at about midnight 29/2 1/3 armap.

Can we be sure of that? Could you please point me to where that is written, I missed it.

And for old pages you can always use the Wayback Machine, I tried the first two links and they are there.

yes you can by the distance when the clip starts.

martins clip starts at 90 nm i think from the tether.

at 11.17 pm 29/2 they were due to pass at about 49 nm so they either started then or at 90nm or martin has edited out the first footage as the tether travelled 50 to 90 nm i would think.

i havent checked for exact figures there i only strongly think from memory that they are correct.

and i know how you like precise from previous reading.


[edit on 5-11-2009 by spacefan]

Originally posted by wmd_2008
reply to post by spacefan

 

No it doesn't have to be ice any small point source of light which is out of focus will look like that so it could be ice,dust,particles from tiles as long as it reflects enough light to be seen SO cut the ice only CR@P!

thats fine so what was there ??
so you atleast a very strong proponent of ice theory originally have slackened your stance abit since obviously deceminating my posts and links what are the posibilities for such volume of objects..?

you will also see i have never said anything about the images apart from when establishing there was no ice.

i am curious tho what they are but i am not going to guess.

[edit on 5-11-2009 by spacefan]

Originally posted by spacefan
i havent checked for exact figures there i only strongly think from memory that they are correct.

Thanks for explaining your own rules of evidence.

I still can't figure out what you meant by "chuffed" and instead of explaining when politely asked to, you throw insults at people who ask for clarification, as if our problem in figuring out what you are trying to say in your posts is because we're the stupid ones.

Your claim that waste water was diverted into the FES on STS-75 is interesting and would be more credible if you provided specific statements that explan how the plumbing made it possible, or how NASA descriptions showed it was actually performed. Allowing plumbing to mix human waste water with potable water strikes me as a very imprudent design -- I'll go check.

Directing doubters to dozens of pages of technical documents and claiming, "I remember for sure the evidence is somewhere in there" (or some such claim) isn't satisfactory.

Originally posted by JimOberg

I still can't figure out what you meant by "chuffed" and instead of explaining when politely asked to, you throw insults at people who ask for clarification, as if our problem in figuring out what you are trying to say in your posts is because we're the stupid ones.

Chuffed

jim people here only have to go back to when i joined on the 2nd of nov.

i part quoted and linked to almost everything as you know full well.

and facts are not insults i have proven you a liar on some of your statements because they are delibrately misleading and from someone with your qualifications can only be seen as lies as you knew when making them that they are unproven and untrue.

you now know that the links provided no longer work as your collegues have killed access to the data directly by link.

and if you think i am going to assist you any further in your mopping up operandi you are mistaken i am going to research it thoroughly and release everything hard copied via email to any and all ufo / paranormal / sights along with friends and family pushing it on facebook etc people may not know what they are looking at but they will know they are not looking at ivce or bedris as your wmd 2008 account keeps making huge thread disrupting posts about.

see jim now the way you and your collegues have reacted to my few posts on an annonomous forum has convinced me beyond any reasonable doubt that there is alot more to that footage that i or anyone is is supposed to know.

before i came here i was curious now however i WANT to know.

[edit on 5-11-2009 by spacefan]

Originally posted by draknoir2

Chuffed

Wow, thanks..

"To be quite pleased with oneself in the manner of a child going potty unassisted." Yeah, that fits.

Maybe English isn't as much my native language as I thought!!

reply to post by spacefan


All those objects wont be ice thats what I am saying but one thing is for sure they are NOT alive and they are not spacecraft and NONE repeat NONE of the ring shaped objects (bokeh) are anywhere near the tether!
It would be impossible for the one that looks like it passed behind the tether to be at that distance down to how depth of field of lenses works a point YOU and others seem happy to IGNORE!

PS I am not Jim you TWAT another English word used here in the UK!

[edit on 5-11-2009 by wmd_2008]

reply to post by reugen


So what? I take it your'e an astro-physicist? Sounds to me like you have all the answers....

yes thats the next stage jim go str8 to my credibility.

however your colleges killing the links to edit them will thinking about it, make MY job easier as i have originals to compare them to when they re-appear and will be only to eager to see what is not there anymore as i have no doubt i missed some other very valid points.

so thinking about it like that has quashed abit of the fire in my belly.

but i feel nothing but utter contempt for you and your colleges.

not the astronauts as i think the rocket jockeys are some of the bravest people on the planet.





[edit on 5-11-2009 by spacefan]

Originally posted by spacefan
ok i will work on that site function thanks.

timeline as promised so where did the ice come from jim.


day 1 thursday the 22/2

Columbia will remain in a near circular 160 nautical mile orbit for
most of the mission, circling the Earth every 90 minutes to provide
the crew with views of a sunrise and sunset 16 times each day.



day 2 friday the 23/2

details of various experiments and staff shifts x3



day 3 saturday the 24/2

problems with tether computor control system.

Troubleshooting a balky experiment data relay box was the focus of work aboard Columbia throughout Friday night and into this morning as the astronauts and flight controllers attempted to track down the problem and preserve their options for deploying the tethered satellite at 2:37 this afternoon.

this is the tops camera experiment.

the SPREE experiment, conducted
by David Hardy of the Department of the Air Force, will
measure the charged particle quantities around Columbia
before and during active tethered satellite operations.




day 4 sunday the 25/2

Columbia's crew will begin the deploy sequence of the Tethered
Satellite System about 2:45 this afternoon after a one-day delay

first waste water flush and fes experiment.

Another investigation of Columbia's surroundings made use of the orbiter's Flash Evaporator System (FES). To accomplish this experiment, the crew participated in activating and deactivating the orbiter's water release systems and manually operating the Shuttle's attitude control system jets. This provided a controlled means of studying the distribution of neutral and charged particles in the vicinity of the payload bay during Shuttle water dumps.


The tether on the Italian Tethered Satellite broke about 7:30 p.m. CST
Sunday as the satellite was nearing the full extent of its deployment
from the Shuttle. The satellite, which was nearing the end of its
planned 12.8 mile distance, immediately began accelerating away from
Columbia at a rapid rate as a result of normal orbital forces. TSS is
separating from Columbia at a rate of 420 miles each 90 minute orbit.


even tho they had a waste water dump/flush prior as part of the tops experiment that day you dont see any ice/debris
in the break footage its pristine because fes does not produce ice when fully functional and is performingas expected and releasing steam only.

Following the break, Mission Control asked the astronauts to record television of the boom and broken tether for post-flight analysis

Its this footage that has been edited into the later footage at the beginning of all the longer versions of martins clips.

day 5 monday 26/2


day 6 tuesday 27/2


day 7 wednesday 28/2

NASA managers decided today not to return Columbia to the Tethered
Satellite for either a close inspection or a possible retrieval after
concluding that propellant margins would not be adequate to support
the operations.
The Tethered Satellite is currently 7,100 nautical miles ahead of
Columbia with the distance between the two spacecraft closing at the
rate of 340 nm with every revolution of the Earth. The two spacecraft
will pass within 50 nm of one another about 11:48 p.m. Thursday, at a
Mission Elapsed Time of 7/09:30.

has anyone else got anything for the timeline please