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New Analysis Video of the STS-75 Tether Incident

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posted on Aug, 11 2009 @ 05:56 PM
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reply to post by ArMaP
 


Or beyond 10 meters, and greater than a cm in size, which means not effluent dump particles or thruster particles. An occasional large ice crystal does come from effluent dumps, but not a flock.

There sure does seem to be a lot of these white dots moving around in NASA videos, although none with as many as this tether video. It seems that NASA would look into this, except that maybe upper management has a real problem with the issue.

I have yet to see anyone make any credible effort at proving this could not be plasma.




posted on Aug, 11 2009 @ 06:34 PM
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Originally posted by poet1b
I have yet to see anyone make any credible effort at proving this could not be plasma.
I don't know if a plasma sphere has an electrical charge (positive or negative), but it has then there should be some interaction between them, same charge would make them move away from each other, different charges would make them move to each other.

But I don't have any idea if this is true or not.



posted on Aug, 11 2009 @ 10:38 PM
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reply to post by ArMaP
 


Probably they would have a center that is negatively charged, which would be the most dense part of the plasma, with a positive charges outer membrane.

This would cause a fairly neutral electrical charge, which would attract matter based on how out of balance the charge would get.

If there is plasma that forms into bodies in our upper atmosphere, you would think that science could learn enormous things about space and matter by studying such plasma.



posted on Aug, 11 2009 @ 10:50 PM
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Originally posted by poet1b
reply to post by ArMaP
 

I have yet to see anyone make any credible effort at proving this could not be plasma.


I have yet to see a shred of evidence to suggest that it is plasma
.

Sure, plasma makes up over 99% of the universe, but it is in the minority in the Earth-Moon system. There really is no evidence for the filmed objects to be plasma, and a whole lot of evidence for other explanations.

[edit on 11-8-2009 by JScytale]



posted on Aug, 12 2009 @ 05:01 AM
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Originally posted by poet1b
Probably they would have a center that is negatively charged, which would be the most dense part of the plasma, with a positive charges outer membrane.
That would mean that the outer part, positively charged in all plasma spheres, would make them repell each other, right?



posted on Aug, 12 2009 @ 07:55 AM
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Originally posted by ArMaP

Originally posted by poet1b
Probably they would have a center that is negatively charged, which would be the most dense part of the plasma, with a positive charges outer membrane.
That would mean that the outer part, positively charged in all plasma spheres, would make them repell each other, right?


AFAIK that would have to be two separate plasmas. electrons flow freely in a plasma, meaning the charge would be easily distributed evenly throughout its entirety. You could very easily have a charged plasma though, simply being one with more nuclei than electrons or vice-versa. there is a reason they are often called "ionized gases" - most of them are ionized
.

two separate charges in plasmas would only really be possible if they were, in fact, isolated entirely from each other, AFAIK.

[edit on 12-8-2009 by JScytale]



posted on Aug, 12 2009 @ 08:30 PM
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reply to post by JScytale
 


Let's injects some science into this discussion.

www.plasmas.org...


Plasmas are conductive assemblies of charged particles, neutrals and fields that exhibit collective effects. Further, plasmas carry electrical currents and generate magnetic fields. Plasmas are the most common form of matter, comprising more than 99% of the visible universe, and permeate the solar system, interstellar and intergalactic environments.

Plasmas are radically multiscale in two senses
(1) most plasma systems involve electro-dynamic coupling across micro-, meso- and macroscale and (2) plasma systems occur over most of the physically possible ranges in space, energy and density scales. The figure here illustrates where many plasma systems occur in terms of typical densities and temperatures.


This statement here is important. PLASMA permeate the solar system, interstellar and intergalactic environments.

Plasma is known to exist in space, permeating our solar system, so it is only reasonable to suggest that things observed during space missions might and could very well be plasma.

What we see in the tether video looks like plasma, and not anything else. It most certainly does not look like small particles just outside of the shuttle. Small particles disappear, and a demonstration of this has been provided on this thread. In addition, we have a NASA study on particles seen in cameras during missions, and these objects seen in this tether video do not fit the description. Plasma is the only logical explanation.



posted on Aug, 12 2009 @ 09:29 PM
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Originally posted by poet1b
reply to post by JScytale
 


Let's injects some science into this discussion.

www.plasmas.org...


Plasmas are conductive assemblies of charged particles, neutrals and fields that exhibit collective effects. Further, plasmas carry electrical currents and generate magnetic fields. Plasmas are the most common form of matter, comprising more than 99% of the visible universe, and permeate the solar system, interstellar and intergalactic environments.

Plasmas are radically multiscale in two senses
(1) most plasma systems involve electro-dynamic coupling across micro-, meso- and macroscale and (2) plasma systems occur over most of the physically possible ranges in space, energy and density scales. The figure here illustrates where many plasma systems occur in terms of typical densities and temperatures.


This statement here is important. PLASMA permeate the solar system, interstellar and intergalactic environments.

Plasma is known to exist in space, permeating our solar system, so it is only reasonable to suggest that things observed during space missions might and could very well be plasma.

What we see in the tether video looks like plasma, and not anything else. It most certainly does not look like small particles just outside of the shuttle. Small particles disappear, and a demonstration of this has been provided on this thread. In addition, we have a NASA study on particles seen in cameras during missions, and these objects seen in this tether video do not fit the description. Plasma is the only logical explanation.





Once again, plasma is in the minority in the earth-moon system. The primary reason that plasma is such a dominant form of matter is the fact that every star in existence is 100% plasma. In the earth-moon system, the only significant amount of plasma exists in the magnetosphere. It is not reasonable to suggest that objects that do not look like plasma, but in fact look like lens artifacts, are plasma. If you'd like some examples of what plasma actually looks like:






plasma does not look like this.



posted on Aug, 13 2009 @ 03:08 AM
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Originally posted by JScytale
Once again, plasma is in the minority in the earth-moon system.


Once again... there is LOTS of plasma around spacecraft...

EUV-FUV Spectroscopy of TSS Optical Phenomena (*).
C. BATALLI COSMOVICI and R. STALIO



Summary.- We propose to use the IEH (International Ultraviolet Hitchhiker),
a multidisciplinary facility (Astronomy, Solar System, Earth's atmosphere)
to be mounted on the Shuttle pallet as a Hitchhiker flight opportunity,
in order to obtain 2D images in the EUV-FUV ((400 -- 1300) .~) of the optical
phenomena occurring in the neighborhood of the TSS satellite. These peculiar
phenomena, not detectable during the first TSS mission, are primarily due to
the interaction of a high-potential conductive body with the surrounding
ionospheric plasma.
PACS 94.20 - Physics of the ionosphere.
PACS 95.85.Mt -Astronomical observations: ultraviolet (100- 3000) /~



1. - Spacecraft glow.
Orbiting vehicles were found to emit optical radiation while travelling through
the atmosphere [1]. During the third Shuttle flight in 1982, images taken by the astronauts have shown an orange glow over the Shuttle tail and thrusters concentrated around the areas exposed to the ,orbital wind,. The glow spreads for about 20 cm over the Shuttle surface.
This phenomenon is due mainly to chemical processes which are enhanced
because of the catalytic effect of the orbiter ram surfaces [2]. Atomic oxygen at 250 km altitude contributes with about 80% to the atmospheric gas composition. It interacts with the Shuttle surface at 8 km/s (orbital velocity) corresponding to an energy of 1.3 eV. This collisional energy and the high ioriospheric temperature (about 1000 K) make oxygen extremely reactive and lead to the formation of NO and NO2 molecules on the materials surface. These molecules are then released in an excited state emitting photons in the orange spectral region.


www.springerlink.com...

Full text can be purchased here... I haven't found a free version yet

www.springerlink.com...

Enjoy I will be back with more



posted on Aug, 13 2009 @ 04:27 AM
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TETHERED SATELLITE SYSTEM INTERACTIONS WITH
THE IONOSPHERIC PLASMA

Nobie H. Stone
Space Science Laboratory, NASA Marshall Space Flight Center,
Huntsville, AL 35812 USA.


The Tethered Satellite System (TSS) program was designed to provide the opportunity to explore certain space plasma-electrodynamic processes (associated with high-voltage bodies and electrical currents in space) and the orbital mechanics of a gravity-gradient stabilized system of two satellites linked by a long conducting tether. A unique data set was obtained
during the TSS-1R mission in which the tether emf and current reached values in excess of 3500 volts and 1 amp, respectively. The insight this has allowed into the current collection process and the physics of high-voltage plasma sheaths is significant. Previous theoretical models of current collection were electrostatic—assuming that the orbital motion of the
system, which is highly subsonic with respect to electron thermal motion, was unimportant.

Moreover, these models did not include the effects of ionization. These assumptions may still be acceptable for the case of relatively slow-moving sounding rockets. However, the TSS-1R results show that motion relative to the plasma—and especially ionization of neutral gases— do affect current collection and must be accounted for in orbiting systems. The same
processes are also of critical importance to a proper characterization of the plasma environments of large structures in space such as the International Space Station.


see.msfc.nasa.gov...






posted on Aug, 13 2009 @ 04:34 AM
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Later vacuum-chamber experiments suggested that the unwinding of the reel uncovered pinholes in the insulation. That in itself would not have caused a major problem, because the ionosphere around the tether, under normal circumstance, was too rarefied to divert much of the current. However, the air trapped in the insulation changed that. As it bubbled out of the pinholes, the high voltage ("electric pressure") of the nearby tether, about 3500 volts, converted it into a plasma (in a way similar to the ignition of a fluorescent tube), a relatively dense one and therefore a much better conductor of electricity.

The instruments aboard the tether satellite showed that this plasma diverted through the pinhole about 1 ampere, a current comparable to that of a 100-watt bulb (but at 3500 volts!), to the metal of the shuttle and from there to the ionospheric return circuit. That current was enough to melt the cable.

As the broken end whipped away from the shuttle, the plasma established electric contact with the ionosphere directly.


www-istp.gsfc.nasa.gov...

Plasma Plasma Everywhere

According to NASA




posted on Aug, 13 2009 @ 04:56 AM
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reply to post by zorgon
 

Good Work Zorgon!


I guess this would be a good time to remind everyone of the discoveries made by David Bohm regarding the life-like properties that can be exhibited by plasma (as noted by Poet earlier in the thread):



Bohm, a leading expert in twentieth century plasma physics, observed in amazement that once electrons were in plasma, they stopped behaving like individuals and started behaving as if they were a part of a larger and interconnected whole. Although the individual movements of each electron appeared to be random, vast numbers of electrons were able to produce collective effects that were surprisingly well organized and appeared to behave like a life form. The plasma constantly regenerated itself and enclosed impurities in a wall in the same way that a biological organism, like the unicellular amoeba, might encase a foreign substance in a cyst. So amazed was Bohm by these life-like qualities that he later remarked that he frequently had the impression that the electron sea was "alive" and that plasma possessed some of the traits of living things. The debate on the existence of plasma-based life forms has been going on for more than 20 years ever since some models showed that plasma can mimic the functions of a primitive cell.

They can, for instance, divide to form copies of the original structure; which then interact to induce changes in their neighbors that evolve into other new structures. The less stable structures break down over time leaving behind only the structures that are most adapted to the environment. "These complex, self-organized plasma structures exhibit all the necessary properties to qualify them as candidates for inorganic living matter", says Tsytovich, "they are autonomous, they reproduce and they evolve".

He adds that the ionized conditions needed to form these helical structures are common in outer space. If that is so, then it will mean that plasma life forms are the most common life form in the universe, given that plasma makes up more than 99% of our visible universe which is almost everywhere ionized. This is in stark contrast to carbon-based life forms, which according to the Rare Earth hypothesis proposed by Peter Ward and Donald Brownlee, would be rare in the universe due to a number of factors - including the need for an acceptable range of temperatures to survive. Complex carbon based life may be as rare as solid rocky bodies like the Earth in the universe.


ezinearticles.com...,-Blobs,-Orbs-and-Subtle-Bodies&id=783224 (Emph. Mine)


The Plasmasphere would be a likely place for complex, self-organized plasma structures with life-like qualities to originate:



*As you already know, the 'critters' have recently been named Plasmoidococcus Plasmaspherus.


[edit on 13-8-2009 by Exuberant1]



posted on Aug, 13 2009 @ 04:58 AM
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reply to post by zorgon
 

The FPEG electron emission was much higher than either ambient ion collection at the orbiter end or electron collection at the satellite. Potentials of the orbiter with respect to the ambient plasma were obtained from measurements from the Shuttle Potential and Return Electron Experiment (SPREE) (Oberhardt et al., 1993a, b, 1994), the SETS tether current voltage monitor (Thompson et al., 1993), and the Agenzia Spaziale Italiana deployer and satellite core equipment (Bonifazi et al., 1988, 1994). Despite the limited tether deployment length of 268 m the TSS-1 system proved capable, during certain events, of generating satellite potentials sufficient to illuminate a previously unexplored aspect of plasma physics: that of an ion repelling, electron attracting, moving probe in a magnetoplasma.
Observations of Ionosphere Heating in the TSS-1 Subsatellite Presheath

So what the heck is a 'Bohm stable electron collecting sheath?'...A note on the plasma sheath and the Bohm criterion.

And a couple of details in this paper...Data analysis support for the SPREE instruments on the TSS-1 shuttle flight.

I'm not at all convinced there are plasma critters, but there's a lot of work been done studying plasma.



posted on Aug, 13 2009 @ 05:26 AM
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Originally posted by poet1b
What we see in the tether video looks like plasma, and not anything else.
Does a plasma sphere have a darker centre and the "notch"?


Small particles disappear, and a demonstration of this has been provided on this thread.
Once more, it depends on the size and distance, one of my videos shows that a 5cm metal star, when seen at a distance of some 5 metres through a camera focused almost to infinity does not disappear.


In addition, we have a NASA study on particles seen in cameras during missions, and these objects seen in this tether video do not fit the description.
Why?



posted on Aug, 13 2009 @ 05:30 AM
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reply to post by zorgon
 

That reminded me of something, could we be seeing a mix of the two things, objects and plasma?

In the information you posted they talk about the plasma surrounding the shuttle and the tether (after all that was the idea, to get a plasma, or close to a plasma, around the tether and to measure it), so it looks like the best way of getting a plasma in those conditions is to use an object that helps the "collecting" of the plasma around itself, so maybe those round objects are both things, small particles surrounded by plasma.

Could it be?



posted on Aug, 13 2009 @ 05:53 AM
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I didn't went through the whole thread, but I was wondering :

It is obvious that particles from this video are changing directions. But for me this is absolutely not something unnatural. These particles are floating in the vacuum so magnetic and electric forces up there become very significant compared to the gravity.

For me these things just look like electrically charged dust/particles (and remember that charged particles is easily found down here on Earth. Just try any experience with static electricity) moving along each other and changing paths when encountering other charged particles.

Repulsion if the charge is the same
Attraction if the charge is the opposite

The elliptic courses strongly suggest we are in front of such things.

What do you think ? Has it already been suggested ?



posted on Aug, 13 2009 @ 06:32 AM
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Lets not forget that all we see here is ELLIPTICAL movements.

Elliptical is in no way a proof of intelligent movement. It is the basic type of movement when a point-based force is applied to linear movement.

Why should we see ufos here ?



posted on Aug, 13 2009 @ 08:03 AM
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gee zorgon, who knew plasma would be present around objects traveling through the ionosphere?

read that word again.
ion-osphere.

do you know what an ion is? now go read the definition for plasma.



posted on Aug, 13 2009 @ 08:33 AM
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Originally posted by JScytale
gee zorgon, who knew plasma would be present around objects traveling through the ionosphere?


Indeed.

Are you surprised by the presence of plasma in the ionosphere?




posted on Aug, 13 2009 @ 10:24 AM
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reply to post by SpaceGoatsFarts
 


Yep, that is why the subject has turned to plasma. These things do indeed look like ion charged clouds or something similar. We don't have enough footage to tell whether or not the changes in direction seen here might be more complex than simple reaction to some force, like a possible magnetic field around the tether, but they do not seem to be reacting to one single force, although a detailed examination might show this. They seem more to be swarming around the tether like moths around a candle, or people around an accident scene.

"Gawd, these carbon based creatures are ruining out neighborhood. What a bunch of low life slobs."



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