New Analysis Video of the STS-75 Tether Incident

Originally posted by poet1b
Yes, I should have said that it is my, and many other's, hypothesis, that what we often see in these NASA video's as UFOs are plasma, and possibly plasma life forms. This concept is backed by scientific evidence which I have provided.

While these theories/hypothesises on plasma life forms in space have not been proven, they have not been disproven. This would radically alter the current scientific theories on life, and the nature of the Universe,and mess up a great many careers, so there is considerable opposition to the ideas, but that opposition is slowly losing the battle.

something that is not proven and not disproven is an unknown. you can't form a logical argument that is upheld by an assumption than an unknown is true.

you provided excellent scientific data that plasma life is possible. I must say, it really got me thinking about possibilities. However, you also mentioned that a property of plasma is similarity to living systems. That is patently false. Plasma is a state of matter, just like a solid or a liquid. The sun is made of plasma. Stating that all plasma is alive makes *less* sense than stating all liquid is alive because we have *observed* that all known life forms are liquid based.

Originally posted by JScytale

something that is not proven and not disproven is an unknown. you can't form a logical argument that is upheld by an assumption than an unknown is true.

You mean like Einsteins "Theory of Relativity"?

reply to post by JScytale


Yeah, I saw that explanation too, but this statement is completely false.

A theory is an explanation of a set of related observations or events based upon proven hypotheses

A hypothesis, when considered proven, becomes a law of physics. There is a huge difference between a law of physics and a theory.

Originally posted by zorgon

Originally posted by JScytale

something that is not proven and not disproven is an unknown. you can't form a logical argument that is upheld by an assumption than an unknown is true.

You mean like Einsteins "Theory of Relativity"?

which was built entirely from interesting observations of already existing data.
www.kuro5hin.org...

As can be seen, the ideas of relativity were developed by many people. The basic principle was from Galileo, embraced by Newton, restated and refined by Poincaré . The mathematics was already pretty much figured out by Lorenz and Minkowsky. The experiments were provided by Michelson and Morley and others later. Innumerable others made theoretical contributions as well. In many cases, several people came up with the same ideas independently (such as Lorentz and FitzGerald). All these threads, however, still looked like a big tangle.

In 1905, Albert Einstein added a few of his own threads and weaved the whole into the Special Theory of Relativity, at once a rigorous scientific theory making predictions of its own and beautiful story that made all these weird observations and theories fit together. That is the subject of the next installment.

profound insight and imagination are *NOT* one and the same.

[edit on 5-7-2009 by JScytale]

Originally posted by poet1b
reply to post by JScytale

 

Yeah, I saw that explanation too, but this statement is completely false.

A theory is an explanation of a set of related observations or events based upon proven hypotheses

A hypothesis, when considered proven, becomes a law of physics. There is a huge difference between a law of physics and a theory.

a hypothesis, when proven or disproven, becomes nothing more than a conclusion

a scientific law is quite a different story.

(same source)

Scientific Law: This is a statement of fact meant to describe, in concise terms, an action or set of actions. It is generally accepted to be true and universal, and can sometimes be expressed in terms of a single mathematical equation. Scientific laws are similar to mathematical postulates. They don�t really need any complex external proofs; they are accepted at face value based upon the fact that they have always been observed to be true.

Specifically, scientific laws must be simple, true, universal, and absolute. They represent the cornerstone of scientific discovery, because if a law ever did not apply, then all science based upon that law would collapse.

Some scientific laws, or laws of nature, include the law of gravity, Newton's laws of motion, the laws of thermodynamics, Boyle's law of gases, the law of conservation of mass and energy, and Hook�s law of elasticity.

[edit on 5-7-2009 by JScytale]

Originally posted by JScytaleHowever, you also mentioned that a property of plasma is similarity to living systems. That is patently false. Plasma is a state of matter, just like a solid or a liquid.

Really need to get out more and broaden your reading

ay Alfred: Life-Like Qualities of Plasma: Bohm, a leading expert in twentieth century plasma physics, observed in amazement that once electrons were in plasma, they stopped behaving like individuals and started behaving as if they were a part of a larger and interconnected whole. Although the individual movements of each electron appeared to be random, vast numbers of electrons were able to produce collective effects that were surprisingly well organized and appeared to behave like a life form. The plasma constantly regenerated itself and enclosed impurities in a wall in the same way that a biological organism, like the unicellular amoeba, might encase a foreign substance in a cyst. So amazed was Bohm by these life-like qualities that he later remarked that he frequently had the impression that the electron sea was "alive" and that plasma possessed some of the traits of living things. The debate on the existence of plasma-based life forms has been going on for more than 20 years ever since some models showed that plasma can mimic the functions of a primitive cell.

www.unexplained-mysteries.com...

Patently false you say?

Originally posted by zorgon

Originally posted by JScytaleHowever, you also mentioned that a property of plasma is similarity to living systems. That is patently false. Plasma is a state of matter, just like a solid or a liquid.

Really need to get out more and broaden your reading

ay Alfred: Life-Like Qualities of Plasma: Bohm, a leading expert in twentieth century plasma physics, observed in amazement that once electrons were in plasma, they stopped behaving like individuals and started behaving as if they were a part of a larger and interconnected whole. Although the individual movements of each electron appeared to be random, vast numbers of electrons were able to produce collective effects that were surprisingly well organized and appeared to behave like a life form. The plasma constantly regenerated itself and enclosed impurities in a wall in the same way that a biological organism, like the unicellular amoeba, might encase a foreign substance in a cyst. So amazed was Bohm by these life-like qualities that he later remarked that he frequently had the impression that the electron sea was "alive" and that plasma possessed some of the traits of living things. The debate on the existence of plasma-based life forms has been going on for more than 20 years ever since some models showed that plasma can mimic the functions of a primitive cell.

www.unexplained-mysteries.com...

Patently false you say?

your source has no sources
i won't even start on bias.

it is patently false that all plasma displays similarity to biological organisms. Most of the plasma in the universe takes the not very subtle form of stars. There really is not any evidence whatsoever that the sun is alive.

[edit on 5-7-2009 by JScytale]

reply to post by JScytale


No, just because plasma has been shown to exhibit signs of life does not mean that all plasma is alive. Over a time, Plasma evolves, that is what these studies say and show.

Also, the sun is not made of plasma, but it puts out huge amounts of plasma.

A theory is neither proven or unproven, but it is accepted as a valid concept, until unproven. I don't have more time available to explain further.

Originally posted by poet1b

Also, the sun is not made of plasma, but it puts out huge amounts of plasma.

false.
www.plasma-universe.com...

The visible Universe is 99.999% plasma. The Sun is about 100% plasma, as are all stars. Plasma makes up nearly 100% of the interplanetary, interstellar and intergalactic medium. The Earth's ionosphere is plasma.

[edit on 5-7-2009 by JScytale]

reply to post by poet1b


Have just come upon a thread which you may find of interest.
There is a link there to a video.
Haven't posted it here out of respect for the author of the thread.

Could this be a video of actual plasma lifeforms being born?

Link to video via thread

For some of you,don't be put off by the host.
Take me for example.I'm a nice bloke but on a very rare occasion I'm not.
Well,you get the principle I'm sure.


[edit on 5/7/09 by gallifreyan medic]

Originally posted by JScytale

false.
www.plasma-universe.com...

The visible Universe is 99.999% plasma. The Sun is about 100% plasma, as are all stars. Plasma makes up nearly 100% of the interplanetary, interstellar and intergalactic medium. The Earth's ionosphere is plasma.

Ummm no... If it was 100% plasma it would not sustain itself and soon collapse

Composition of the Sun

hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu...

What intrigues me is the 'rumor' that the Sun has an iron surface, something hinted at by Japan's Hinode probe

www.thesurfaceofthesun.com...








[edit on 5-7-2009 by zorgon]

Originally posted by zorgon

Originally posted by JScytale

false.
www.plasma-universe.com...

The visible Universe is 99.999% plasma. The Sun is about 100% plasma, as are all stars. Plasma makes up nearly 100% of the interplanetary, interstellar and intergalactic medium. The Earth's ionosphere is plasma.

Ummm no... If it was 100% plasma it would not sustain itself and soon collapse

Composition of the Sun

hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu...

plasma is not an element. it is a state of matter. all of the elements you listed make up the sun - in plasma form. and don't fabricate information. We both know "If it was 100% plasma it would not sustain itself and soon collapse" came out of your ass.

www.plasmas.org...

Plasma is by far the most common form of matter. Plasma in the stars and in the tenuous space between them makes up over 99% of the visible universe and perhaps most of that which is not visible.

On earth we live upon an island of "ordinary" matter. The different states of matter generally found on earth are solid, liquid, and gas. We have learned to work, play, and rest using these familiar states of matter. Sir William Crookes, an English physicist, identified a fourth state of matter, now called plasma, in 1879.

[edit on 5-7-2009 by JScytale]

Originally posted by zorgon

What intrigues me is the 'rumor' that the Sun has an iron surface, something hinted at by Japan's Hinode probe

wow i read that link and all i have to say is this.
when you are linking to articles claiming to be scientific, start by checking for valid sources that support the claims made.

[edit on 5-7-2009 by JScytale]

Here's LunaCognitas next video on this.

Originally posted by zorgon
Ummm no... If it was 100% plasma it would not sustain itself and soon collapse

Composition of the Sun

hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu...

I'm actually curious now. What do you think plasma is?

Getting a little off topic guys.

I think the biggest problem in this whole thread has been people viewing each other as being on opposite sides, that's not so. Unexplained phenomenon interests all of us. Some of us reach the conclusion that something is explainable and the subject no longer has that interesting kink. Just because we are at different stages of viewing a phenomenon doesn't mean we gotta fight about it.

Have fun I am bailing out of this thread now. Said all I got to say

[edit on 5-7-2009 by Lazyninja]

Originally posted by JScytale
I'm actually curious now. What do you think plasma is?

The the yellow-colored liquid component of blood, in which blood cells are suspended...



Plasma is the life blood of the Universe...created in many ways when energy strips off electrons from atoms creating a 'fluid' of free electrons and ion...

As it is a 'fluid' in behavior it can be applied in a Coanda effect like craft because Plasma flow can be controlled by electromagnetic forces. We are already using it on our black ops planes as a flow over the leading edges of planes for stealth purposes and to replace ailerons for steering , instead using 'plasma actuators' ( I have shown those in other threads)

Your stating that the sun is 100% plasma is silly... even if the universe is 99% plasma the 1% that is left is still a HUGE amount of solid matter that makes up the Sun, the planet and even you.

As to the critters are they actually living plasma? Or some other form of energy not yet identified? Don't know yet, I have to catch one first

But as he Wanna be Ninja said getting way off topic

Originally posted by zorgon

Originally posted by JScytale
I'm actually curious now. What do you think plasma is?

The the yellow-colored liquid component of blood, in which blood cells are suspended...

Plasma is the life blood of the Universe...created in many ways when energy strips off electrons from atoms creating a 'fluid' of free electrons and ion...

As it is a 'fluid' in behavior it can be applied in a Coanda effect like craft because Plasma flow can be controlled by electromagnetic forces. We are already using it on our black ops planes as a flow over the leading edges of planes for stealth purposes and to replace ailerons for steering , instead using 'plasma actuators' ( I have shown those in other threads)

Your stating that the sun is 100% plasma is silly... even if the universe is 99% plasma the 1% that is left is still a HUGE amount of solid matter that makes up the Sun, the planet and even you.

As to the critters are they actually living plasma? Or some other form of energy not yet identified? Don't know yet, I have to catch one first

But as he Wanna be Ninja said getting way off topic

plasma behaves a whole lot more like an extremely thin gas than a liquid, and stating that the sun is solid is hilarious. there are no substances (NONE) that can stay solid at the temperatures inside the sun. the only place a solid could POSSIBLY form is the very core of the sun, and only due to extreme pressure - but it wouldn't be much of a solid because of what happens at the sun's core (basically a supergiant, sustained fusion bomb constantly detonating). the sun is a ball of plasma, and this is a well documented and well understood fact. oh, and I *do* hope that first line was sarcastic. if it wasn't (O_O) then please look up blood plasma followed by plasma in the context of physics.

and yes, 0.0001% of the universe being solid, liquid and gas is a *whole* lot - but saying "thats still enough for the sun" is silly. The sun is a star. if all the stars in the universe were not plasma, the universe would not be 99.999% plasma.

en.wikipedia.org...

oh, and if you just want numbers, iron EVAPORATES at 3134 degrees kelvin (tungsten, the element with the highest known boiling point, evaporates at 5660*K). the very surface of the sun (the coldest part by far) is 5780 degrees kelvin. The core is about 15,000,000 degrees kelvin... there also is not *enough* iron in the sun to form a solid, thick crust all around it.

[edit on 6-7-2009 by JScytale]

Originally posted by JScytale
plasma behaves a whole lot more like an extremely thin gas than a liquid,

Maybe in your world, but not according to black ops projects it doesn't

And even your favorite source WikedPedia says...

Fluid model

Fluid models describe plasmas in terms of smoothed quantities like density and averaged velocity around each position (see Plasma parameters). One simple fluid model, magnetohydrodynamics, treats the plasma as a single fluid governed by a combination of Maxwell's equations and the Navier–Stokes equations. A more general description is the two-fluid plasma picture, where the ions and electrons are described separately. Fluid models are often accurate when collisionality is sufficiently high to keep the plasma velocity distribution close to a Maxwell–Boltzmann distribution. Because fluid models usually describe the plasma in terms of a single flow at a certain temperature at each spatial location, they can neither capture velocity space structures like beams or double layers nor resolve wave-particle effects.

Plasma behaves as a fluid when magnetic fields are applied... its what makes spaceships fly

Lemme give you some homework

ElectroHydroDynamics ( E.H.D.)
Electrogravitics

Plasma applications on stealth craft

The Northrop shock wave reduction experiment
" Electroaerodynamics in supersonic flow "
jnaudin.free.fr...

Revolutionary Hypersonic Aerospace Vehicles
With Plasma Actuators That Require No Moving Parts
Air Force Research Laboratorywww.thelivingmoon.com...

These planes steer by changing the plasma flow... no ailerons required

And this is the released stuff...

Your welcome to stay in your realm of Olde Worlde physics but that is so archaic...

And yes I was serious that the liquid that carries your blood cells is plasma... in fact, plasma got its name because in 1928 it was dubbed "plasma" by Irving Langmuir because it reminded him of a blood plasma.

Hence why I refer to plasma as the life blood of the Universe...

Hey maybe 'criitters' are he 'blood cells'


[edit on 6-7-2009 by zorgon]

Originally posted by zorgon
And yes I was serious that the liquid that carries your blood cells is plasma... in fact, plasma got its name because in 1928 it was dubbed "plasma" by Irving Langmuir because it reminded him of a blood plasma.

Hence why I refer to plasma as the life blood of the Universe...

really? seriously?
this is a very, very misguided understanding of plasma. And yes, plasma (physics plasma) can behave as a fluid in certain situations, but what we really, seriously need to address right now is your fundamental misunderstanding of what plasma actually is.

Blood plasma is simply a liquid composed of many different nutrients that is pumped through our veins. It carries blood cells, immune cells, and everything else that goes through our veins. It is simply a liquid present in the body, like stomach acid, bile, or urine. It serves a distinct biological purpose and is not remotely exceptional in any physical sense.

medical-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com...

blood plasma
Etymology: AS, blod + Gk, plassein, to mold
the liquid portion of the blood, free of its formed elements and particles. Plasma represents approximately 50% of the total volume of blood and contains glucose, proteins, amino acids, and other nutritive materials; urea and other excretory products; and hormones, enzymes, vitamins, and minerals. Compare serum. See also blood, plasma protein, pooled plasma.

blood plasma
the liquid phase of the blood, obtained by sedimentation or centrifugation of blood treated with anticoagulant. Is the equivalent of serum plus fibrinogen and consists of water, proteins, electrolytes and other solutes.

Plasma, in the physics sense, is a distinct state of matter. There are four major states of matter - solid, liquid, gas and plasma. Plasma is matter where the electrons have broken free from the atomic nuclei, therefore creating positive ions (the lone nuclei) and electrons floating freely in the same space. In its most common form it is almost identical to a gas in its behavior. In extreme circumstances it can behave in interesting ways. For an example of plasma here on earth, look at lightning. Lightning bolts are briefly existent sheathes of plasma carrying tremendous electrical charges between the clouds and the ground (the clouds build up a static charge and lightning equalizes the charge with the earth when it gets too strong). Fire is also another example of plasma. I wouldn't call fire liquid. In order for plasma to form, you usually need extremely high temperatures. It is like boiling a gas, but plasmas can form by other means.

physics.about.com...

Plasma is a distinct phase of matter, separate from the traditional solids, liquids, and gases. It is a collection of charged particles that respond strongly and collectively to electromagnetic fields, taking the form of gas-like clouds or ion beams. Since the particles in plasma are electrically charged (generally by being stripped of electrons), it is frequently described as an "ionized gas."

Plasma was first identified (as "radiant mattter") by Sir William Crookes in 1879. Sir J.J. Thomson identified the nature of the matter in 1897. It was Irving Langmuir who assigned the term "plasma" in 1928.

It is odd to consider that plasma is actually the most common phase of matter, especially since it was the last one discovered. Flame, lightning, interstellar nebulae, stars, and even the empty vastness of space are all examples of the plasma state of matter.

i think i should also make it clear that fluid models apply to some liquids, any gas and any plasma, but yes plasma CAN behave specifically as a liquid.

A fluid is defined as a substance that continually deforms (flows) under an applied shear stress. All gases are fluids, but not all liquids are fluids. Fluids are a subset of the phases of matter and include liquids, gases, plasmas and, to some extent, plastic solids.

I do hope this helps with your understanding of the universe. Plasma is a very interesting thing and it can behave in amazing ways - but so can any state of matter given the right circumstances. Plasma can be made up of *any* element or combination of elements, it can even contain small solids within itself that become part of it (look up dusty plasmas).

Because of the fact that in a plasma, nuclei have no electrons - they cannot bond with other atoms. a truly solid plasma is entirely impossible because of this, but plasma can get tremendously small solids trapped inside it to behave as part of the plasma (see dusty plasmas). Plasma is almost universally a gas-like substance, but with extremely strong magnetic fields or extreme pressure, can behave similarly to a liquid.

there is no hostility here. i am only trying to educate you so you can maybe get a more complete understanding of physics, and thus approach UFO evidence with the appropriate tools to get any sort of reasonable conclusion.

[edit on 6-7-2009 by JScytale]