Mystery solved: One Bible - 38,000 Christian denominations

"Religion" has nothing to do with God, and God has nothing to do with "religion".

Mankind is the responsible party for creating all the religions and different doctrines.

Man always tries to outdo the other person - that's why we have all these 'bibles' out there today. Mankind has his own agenda - and it's far from what God tells us.

As a Christian, I can tell you that there are countless false teachers of the Bible out there - as well as ones that are only claiming to be preachers for whatever money they can get out of you. Steer clear of those guys, and girls.

Good teachers are Arnold Murray, Perry Stone, Charles Stanley and Billy Graham. Oh and John Hagee. These guys also won't try to steal your money either.

Originally posted by nomorecruelty
Earth isn't the only planet in the universe - you, like most of pride filled mankind, are just "assuming" that the entire universe has but one planet with one species. Us. *laughable*

Millions and millions of people have, over the ages, tried to debunk the Bible, God and Jesus.

Take a number, my friend.

The Christians win in the end.

The same holds true for ANY planet... Night and day is due to the rotation of a planet. That part of a planet which faces a star/sun is in daytime, that which is turned away from the star/sun is in nighttime.

I'd still be interested in how "The Christians win in the end here" - that which I quoted from Genesis is a flat-out incorrect statement. Day and night do not happen without the rotation of a planet.

reply to post by notreallyalive


THIS site has alot of handy resources to answer any questions regarding the dangers of counterfeit 'bibles'. And explains why the KJ Bible is the original scripture.


And you can listen, or read, the KJ Bible HERE

Originally posted by helen670

Originally posted by Lichter daraus
reply to post by helen670

 

Last i heard The bible was supposedly the word of god written by man, correct me if I'm wrong...

PEACE!!!

[edit on 04/16/2009 by Lichter daraus]

Written by man, Inspired by God.

The men chosen for this task was not someone like you and I.
These people followed God and His law in the greatest respect.
They prayed and fasted and then did according to 'Gods Will' and not mans.
The Lords prayer reads....
Our Father who art in Heaven,
Hallowed be thy name,
Thy Kingdom come,
Thy will be done......Not OUR WILL,but Gods WILL.

Today man wants MY WILL and not Gods Will.

I'm going to insist, there is no contradiction in the Word of God,.

helen

OK i know how the prayer goes. Inspired by god word of god, i have heard it both ways, but mostly as the word of god. Doesn't really matter to me i guess, i gave up religion years ago. In my eyes he will accept you as long as you truly believe. Well I do believe, but not in the god of the people. I believe in the one true god, i don't really like to call it god either. I would rather call it the all knowing, creator of everything.



PEACE!!!

reply to post by notreallyalive


A good site for resources.....

here

Also the site has links to sites that explain why the KJ Bible is the true scripture and has a list of 'counterfeit' ones.

A good rainy day bookmark site.

reply to post by nomorecruelty


I couldn't be less interested in which Bible certain people think is correct - this is EXACTLY why we have 38,000 denominations...

Argue a side, someone disagrees, go make a new denomination.

If it works for you awesome. Preaching to someone else WHY he or she should choose the Bible you choose involves judgment and selling.

Frankly, if someone wants to be a proper Christian and really know that it is the truth I think they should learn Aramaic, Hebrew, and Greek and go back and study what was "REALLY SAID", 100s of years after those who said it died.

Kings, Popes, Constantine, the translators of what led to the Septuagent, all had a specific agenda - it is impossible to know the truth by extrapolating back using one certain version.

As a side note, Nomorecruelty, I appreciate the links and your effort in sharing your truth. Not everyone is so dedicated to go all the way back, many people just want something that works for them right now, to fit in and be happy with what they believe in. =)


[edit on 8-6-2009 by notreallyalive]

reply to post by nomorecruelty


There is one reason that the KJV can't be based off the original texts. That being that when Erasmus was compiling the Textus Receptus, which the King James Version is based on, he translated some of the passages into Greek from Latin. Also, the Textus Receptus was, as stated earlier, a compilation of other texts, it's not one that the original authors even authored.

[The reason that the KJV was translated isn't so wholesome either--King James had it translated because the Great Bible said negative things about the King in it's commentaries!]

That's not to say that the KJV doesn't have it's rightful place in history. It was the standard translation for generations. But, English has evolved. modern translations are needed so that the Gospel can get out to people and so that God's people can study the Word for themselves, without having to do word studies on archaic English words.

Because of the work of Christ on the cross, every believer in him, that he was God-sent to redeem and reconcile us to God, can be a high priest in the temple of the living God. Jesus removed the need for intermediaries, and his church as the body of all believers, is more of an organic and holographic representation of Christ himself, than it is a manmade hierarchy modelled on an empire. In this way, the realm of the spirit of God as represented through all believers, is not an exclusive domain of the Catholic Church, and no part of the body of Christ can say to another part, you are not a part. I think the variety gives the church vitality.

Originally posted by OmegaPoint
Because of the work of Christ on the cross, every believer in him, that he was God-sent to redeem and reconcile us to God, can be a high priest in the temple of the living God. Jesus removed the need for intermediaries, and his church as the body of all believers, is more of an organic and holographic representation of Christ himself, than it is a manmade hierarchy modelled on an empire. In this way, the realm of the spirit of God as represented through all believers, is not an exclusive domain of the Catholic Church, and no part of the body of Christ can say to another part, you are not a part. I think the variety gives the church vitality.

[bold added by notreallyalive]

here's an example of what you just said:
1) I didn't have any money but went to the store because I needed something.
2) I saw a friend there who gave me $20.
3) Since I now have $20, I'll go to the store...

The believers in Jesus are believers because of what the Bible says.
The Bible was written AFTER Jesus died.
If Jesus had any influence on His future, would-be believers it would show up IN the Bible...

What you're saying, it seems to me, is that the most important aspect is to be spiritual and not necesarily care what the Bible says. And, that "the realm of the spirit of God as represented through all believers" we created God as we saw fit.

Originally posted by octotom
reply to post by notreallyalive

 

You're trying to read something into the text that isn't there.

The Earth, aka the planet, was created on day one--Genesis 1.1. [Notice that verse two goes on to describe how the Earth was!]

The earth, aka the ground, appeared on the third day---Genesis 1.8.

It's not a contradiction. It just so happens that in English the planet and the ground share a word.

[edit on 6/8/2009 by octotom]

There's no indication in the text that it's a repeat. Also, the word "heaven" (note small h) is used in Gen 1:1, but the word "Heaven" (note capital H) is used in Gen 1:8. It is clearly not a repeat.

Also, if what you're saying were true, then Heaven came FROM earth, and the sun was created AFTER Earth. Pretty sure God and Heaven were here before Earth was created... according to numerous other Bible verses


[edit on 8-6-2009 by notreallyalive]

reply to post by notreallyalive

There's no indication in the text that it's a repeat.

I never said it was a repeat of the same word in Hebrew. What I said was that in English "earth" can mean the ground or the planet. But, as I look at the text in Hebrew right now, in Genesis 1.1 and 1.10 the same word is used in Hebrew, אֶרֶץ , and it happens to, just like in English mean both the planet at large and a particular piece of land. So, the first verse shows the initial creation of the planet, while verse 10, which is explained in verse nine, shows the creation of the dry land.

Also, the word "heaven" (note small h) is used in Gen 1:1, but the word "Heaven" (note capital H) is used in Gen 1:8. It is clearly not a repeat.

Don't you notice anythin peculiar about that whole section though? Everything that God created is capitalized. "God called the dry land Earth, God called the gathered waters Seas, God called called the expanse Heaven. It's almost like he is assigning them names.

It should be noted to that the word translated heaven in Genesis one can also be translated Sky.

[By the way, the word in Hebrew is the same in verse one and verse eight.]

Also, if what you're saying were true, then Heaven came FROM earth, and the sun was created AFTER Earth. Pretty sure God and Heaven were here before Earth was created... according to numerous other Bible verses

No, the creation account doesn't give any indication that Earth came before heaven.

Genesis 1.1 says that the heavens came first. In verse six, the sky is created before the dry land is.

There is no problem with the notion that the Earth came before the sun. In Revelation, in Eternity Future, there is no need for the sun because God will provide light for the Earth. Since God is unchanging, we can assume that before he created the sun, he provided light and such for the Earth.

[edit on 6/8/2009 by octotom]

[edit on 6/8/2009 by octotom]

reply to post by octotom


Thanks for looking that up and providing the Hebrew words; I had wondered why "Seas" was capitalized in 1:10.
On the other hand if what you say is correct, why are the heavens and the earth NOT capitalized in Gen 1:1, but are captalized in 1:8 and 1:10?

If God created the Earth (planet) in 1:1 IT should be capitalized there, NOT in 1:10 as 1:10 is simply showing earth (land) as part of the already created planet.

from page 2

Genesis 1
1In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
[material and gaseous matter, not Heaven and Earth - those are created later Heaven in 1:8, Earth in 1:10]

2And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
3And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.
[creation of the Sun]

4And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.
5And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.

6And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.
[sounds like a continent, but He calls it Heaven in Gen 1:8]

7And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so.
8And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day.

9And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear: and it was so.

10And God called the dry land Earth; and the gathering together of the waters called he Seas: and God saw that it was good.

[edit on 8-6-2009 by notreallyalive]

Originally posted by notreallyalive

Originally posted by weedwhacker

I had a bet with myself, how long for bible "thumpers" to appear here...second post, 11 minutes...certainly a record?

I knew that would be part of this thread =)

I have a somewhat unique view on things in that I read the Bible as a Christian (pretty rare lol) AND read the Bible again after giving Christianity up. I'm all too happy to discuss religions with people.

I had the same experience - as a Christian I read the bible - really a LOT (probably read it entirely like 50 times)- and I have re-read it a couple times since ceasing to be Christian. I have also read the Koran and Bhagavid Gita lately - and intend to read the Torah, not sure what other old religious books are around - but I want to have a look at them also.

The annoying thing about the old testament and the Koran is the repetition of all the things God is going to do to the unrighteous and all the good things for the righteous. If you could edit that crap out - the books would be less than half as long.

There is no truth except what people want it to be.

reply to post by Amagnon


A little off topic but since I created the thread

Briane Greene's Elegant Universe is an amazing book on quantum mechanics, Superstring theory, and various means of how we understand reality. Not in the "religious books" realm, per se, but wonderfully informative for someone searching for truth. It's at least a decade old now so I assume some is out of date, other books on quantum theory might be more appropriate - very interesting field none-the-less.

reply to post by notreallyalive


You have a point regarding the transmission of the information ie: faith comes by hearing, but I was talking about man's relationship with God and an altogether different type of hiearchy though no less universal (Catholic apparently means universal).

The implications of Christianity, for the truth of man's intended stature in the grand scheme of things, is utterly astounding. I don't understand why others fail to recognize it, and how they can be so narrow minded to just throw it all away because of a negative bias and contempt towards religion.

What Christianity affirms imho, is that man was made, by design, to contain, without limitation, the spirit of the living God, and God, beginning with the end in mind, always intended to dwell among us in human form, and here I'm not talking about creationism or immaculate conception, but about a fated causation in time and history generative of a final revelation about the will and intentionality of God towards all mankind.

I should point out that I believe in an all-inclusive cosmological Christ, and since this is not taught by the traditional church, then I guess I'll have to start yet another denomination.. We'll call it "Christian Discovery" and the church, The Christian Discovery Alliance, since it would not preclude different viewpoints, and even other spiritual traditions who's views are resonant and congruent with Christianity.

P.S. The Roman Catholic Church does not OWN the Bible.

[edit on 9-6-2009 by OmegaPoint]

reply to post by notreallyalive


No problem. I'm glad that that information was of use to you.

As I was laying in bed last night, I almost smacked myself. The reason being, Hebrew doesn't have capital letters like English does. So, in the Hebrew text, "Heaven", "Earth", "Seas", and so on wouldn't be capitalized. Therefore, they being capitalized in English has to do with the translators more than what I'd said before.

For example, the Hungarian Károli Bible doesn't capitalize the aforementioned words. As a little example, here's Genesis 1.8 in the Hungarian Bible. The only word that is capitalized is "Isten" which is Hungarian for God:

És nevezé Isten a mennyezetet égnek: és lõn este, és lõn reggel, második nap.

In any event, it is logical to read Genesis 1 much like I do. Day one, heaven and earth were created. Aparrently the earth only had water on it because on day three, God made dry land appear [Genesis 1.9].

reply to post by octotom


It's honestly amazing to me that people I personally know, and many, many others will argue a point in the Bible so vehemently as to forget about God, faith, kindness, etc. Specially keeping in mind something like you just pointed out - that in Hebrew they don't have capital letters! I'd heard that before as well but didn't think of it in our conversation 'til you mentioned it.
[to be clear I'm not meaning arguing as people on this thread; I've enjoyed the openness in this conversation.]

My greatest wish is that more people, of any religion, be more open minded that their sacred text is but one of many that has been provided for us.

I did some research into which books were written in Hebrew, which in Aramaic, or in Greek.

Turns out there are only 2 words in Genesis which were in Aramaic... not sure exactly how that works out that part of a verse is in Hebrew and part in Aramaic, but anyway, here's the verse which contains the Aramaic words:

Gen 31:17
Then Jacob arose and put his children and his wives upon camels;

***

I find it very interesting that the original verses of Genesis didn't use capital letters! This could have a SIGNIFICANT difference in translation!
I know this isn't a new discovery just new to me pertaining to the first 10 verses of Genesis.

reply to post by notreallyalive


Even today, Hebrew doesn't use capital letters. For most of history, Greek didn't either. It doesn't effect translation much as capital letters don't really do anything. For example:

i want to go to berlin, cologne, and new york. they all seem like really cool cities!

means the same as:

I want go to to Berlin, Cologne, and New York. They all seem like really cool cities!

What are the two words that are in Aramaic? That doesn't change anything though. Hebrew and Aramaic are very similar, much like English, German, and Dutch. In fact, there are whole chapters of the Bible written in Aramaic in some places!

Turns out there are only 2 words in Genesis which were in Aramaic... not sure exactly how that works out that part of a verse is in Hebrew and part in Aramaic

It would work like "loan words" do today in modern languages. German has many "loan words" from English. The word just becomes part of the language and no one even thinks about it. Thanks to load words, someone that doesn't know German, for example, can pick out random words that they know from English!

[edit on 6/9/2009 by octotom]

[edit on 6/9/2009 by octotom]