For Those Against Assisted Suicide - Have You Ever Seen Suffering?

I am asking this very seriously. Please no flippant answers.

If you are against assisted suicide, have you ever seen someone in horrible suffering? Have you ever heard their breath gurgling in their throat? Their skin looking like yellow wax, drawn and emaciated? Watched them urinate and defecate on themselves and hate themselves for doing it? Have you ever had them beg you to kill them? Over and over again begging you to kill them? Would you yourself live through such a thing?

I have seen this, it was horrendous. I watched a person as her body ate itself. I know that if i were in that situation i would do anything to end that suffering. I couldn't help her, i wanted to i just couldn't. I just wondered if the people who are against assisted suicide have ever actually been faced with the worst of it. Not just in books, pictures or video, but actually seen it. I have seen it three times now, i never want to see it again.

I'm so sorry you had to go through that even once. I agree. It is a life-changing thing to see someone suffer to that extreme.

In the last three years, I went through the deaths of 3 close family. Two suffered while under doctors care in hospital. Mom decided to go to hospice where she was given sufficient amounts of morphine to keep her unconscious for 6 days before her body finally gave out. My father suffered in ICU for 2 weeks, losing all functions of body and part of his mind. He just wanted to go outside and see the sky again. Not die in ICU.

I would absolutely never allow myself to be admitted to ICU. Hospice would be fine. Those people are genuine and truly care about the patient and the family. I believe hospice is assisted suicide for those diagnosed as medically hopeless. So the Doctors have a huge role to play in who is thought to be "hopeless".

I would never assume (cough,cough) that insurance has anything to do with it though.

Originally posted by Hazelnut
I'm so sorry you had to go through that even once. I agree. It is a life-changing thing to see someone suffer to that extreme.

In the last three years, I went through the deaths of 3 close family. Two suffered while under doctors care in hospital. Mom decided to go to hospice where she was given sufficient amounts of morphine to keep her unconscious for 6 days before her body finally gave out. My father suffered in ICU for 2 weeks, losing all functions of body and part of his mind. He just wanted to go outside and see the sky again. Not die in ICU.

Sorry but this hit home even more for my recently. My father has Motor Neurone Disease, recently diagnosed and as the condition was discussed and he was told how bad he would get, his answer was simple.

"Don't let me die like that"

So i may, if my own health permits me, join the campaign to get this legalised. It just makes no sense why this is illegl. All that would be required is three doctors, neutrally decided if the patient is deffinitely going to die from their condition and if the patient is suffering.

Originally posted by Hazelnut
I would absolutely never allow myself to be admitted to ICU.

Well my father was in ICU and is now out. He hopefully has some years ahead of him. I wouldn't simply condemn someone because they were in ICU.

Originally posted by Hazelnut
Hospice would be fine. Those people are genuine and truly care about the patient and the family. I believe hospice is assisted suicide for those diagnosed as medically hopeless. So the Doctors have a huge role to play in who is thought to be "hopeless".

I would never assume (cough,cough) that insurance has anything to do with it though.

The people i knew were not insured, nor is my own father. I suppose i should have mentioned that to clear it up from the start. I can see how this may be abused but if you put a panel of 3 doctors up to decide on each case then it would i hope eliminate abuse.

The hospice is a great thing but when someone is coughing up their own lungs even they can only give limited care. Hospice isn't assisted suicide, it is death with attempts made at making it as painless as possible. Hospice is great for many conditions but not all.

I don't understand how people can be against assisted suicide. Our pets get treated better when it comes to suffering and the end of the line, yet humans have to wait it out and die when the illness completely takes over their bodies, always very painful and disrespectful in my opinion.

I'm a big supporter of assisted suicide and I want my family to know the options are there if they are in a situation that warrants it.

Saw my dad die from cancer he battled to his last breath. I dont really want to go into detail but he was in a fight for life.

He never gave up and in a way it gave me strength to never give up myself.

Go out as you came in kicking and screaming.

Take care.

Regards
Lee

Originally posted by h3akalee


He never gave up and in a way it gave me strength to never give up myself.

I'm sorry about your dad. I'm a fighter, my dads a fighter, but when you are diffinitely going to die, when you are doing nothing but lying in bed, defecating on yourself, in pain, struggling to breath, why is fighting to spend every last moment suffering seen as good and therefore assisted suicide is bad? My father happily isn't anywhere near this point yet, but he will reach it and when he does he would like the option to end his own life without anyone getting in trouble.

I would ask why the government has any say is whether you can end your life or not.

It needs to be put to a panel of three doctors, the decision must be unanimous. It must be carried out in a special facility for this. The illness must be a terminal one, either long or short term and the condition must be causing suffering.



[edit on 7-6-2009 by ImaginaryReality1984]

I'm happy to have voted in favor of assisted suicide in my state...which is now the second state to have adopted it. Personally, I would never want to go through with assisted suicide myself...but that's no reason why others shouldn't have that option. Of course, the religious fanatics of the right will always have their fits.

reply to post by ImaginaryReality1984


If my dad wanted his life to end he would have asked me to kill him. But that's the other side of the coin there are those that want to die and those that dont.

I respect either.

In the end it's a personal choice if you want to die you die if not you keep on fighting.

Im trying to not go out of context but when the time come's your own father might want to go out on his own instead of being pumped up with a cocktail of pain releif or whatever.

I could say to myself at the present hay if i get cancer stuff it im going to go skydiving and not pull the cord.

But when that point come's guess what im gonna pull that cord to keep on living no matter what.

That's the difference im talking about.

There must always be choice.

Take care.

Regards
Lee

Originally posted by laiguana
I'm happy to have voted in favor of assisted suicide in my state...which is now the second state to have adopted it. Personally, I would never want to go through with assisted suicide myself...but that's no reason why others shouldn't have that option. Of course, the religious fanatics of the right will always have their fits.

Well i'm in the UK. Our country has become very secular and yet many people are still against it. One of the key reasons is the worry over abuse of insurance. These issues would be solved pretty easily. The only abuse would be families trying to push their relatives into it, however with three doctors on a panel, questioning the patient then i hope this ould be picked up and i'm sure it would be. Doctors are used to seeing patients in these situatins and they're used to seeing families.

A further rule could be implemented to say that no insurance company would have to pay out to a family if the family took out insurance after the diagnosis. This would greatly cut down on abuse in the UK as we have a socialised health care system, most people do not have private health insurance.

reply to post by h3akalee


I agree there must always be a choice. However people do fall into two camps. Those who will cling to every second of life, even if it horrible and those who would like to go out peacefully. I would argue over the motivations of living with it, saying those that want to are simply scared of death, but in the end the motivations are completely unimportant.

If the patient wants to die because they cannot handle their suffering, then keeping them alive is tantamount to torture.

My grandfather fought until death to the point that he didn't want to go to sleep because he thought that he would not wake up again.

Finally the family had to get together and tell him that is was OK to let go he was over 100 years old battle prostate cancer for 25 and refused treatment.

People had the right to chose if they want to end suffering or go on, so I am all for Assisted suicide for those than want to end their suffering.

reply to post by marg6043


Thanks for that post marge, i'm sorry about your family going through it. I would also like to thank others who have shared personal stories. It does nothing but to further cement my stance on this issue.

Has anyone heard of "Hospice"?

If you are terminally ill, you shouldn't have to suffer.

www.hospicenet.org...

Does hospice do anything to make death come sooner?

Hospice neither hastens nor postpones dying. Just as doctors and midwives lend support and expertise during the time of child birth, hospice provides its presence and specialized knowledge during the dying process.

How does hospice “manage pain”?

Hospice believes that emotional and spiritual pain are just as real and in need of attention as physical pain, so it can address each. Hospice nurses and doctors are up to date on the latest medications and devices for pain and symptom relief.

What is hospice’s success rate in battling pain?

Very high. Using some combination of medications, counseling and therapies, most patients can attain a level of comfort they consider acceptable.

Suicide should never be an option. Not with the advances in medicine we have today. They won't come out and say it but Morphine is regularly used.

I have experienced Hospice care first and second hand, and it is a peaceful way to go.

The main point of this though, is choice - should people have the freedom to choose? I think yes, in my heart I know - Yes.

I've also seen people suffer through long-term illness, with no hope of recovery and a couple of them fought on until the end, really trooped through it, inspiring that amount of willpower in the face of constant pain and suffering, but that was their choice. Another didn't want to live and made choices about their medical care that didn't prolong their life, yet still had to go through weeks of end stage cancer before their body gave up, they just wanted to go to sleep one last time.

Everyone in a free society should have the option of a humane and peaceful death.

reply to post by laiguana


I've only read about one state. Would you mind telling the second one? Thanks.

To me this is a real gray area. I've had 2 relatives that were able to state how artificial they were willing to go. One had scar tissue smothering her from a butcher job to remove a goiter. The doctors respected she didn't want to constantly have it removed. So sometimes I can see how you should try to make your wishes known beforehand.

It's a slippery slope to start though. There should definitely be a panel of 3-5 medical professionals. I had an aunt with cancer that was told she would only have 6 months. She went into remission and is doing really good. So it's an extremely fragile balance.

This is blunt, but I don't want it to become carte blanche to reduce the growing number of the elderly population.

Well, I think the main criteria should be the wishes of the person - this does, however, bring in the issue of people that for one reason or another may be unable to make that choice, for example someone suffering from dementia or alzheimers.
Although, I do think that with more open and frank discussion of the subject people would and should be able to carry something like a donor card.

reply to post by RRconservative


Well I can tell you this much, I am allergic to Morphine found out the hard way after a major surgery, not funny and very scary so I guess if I happen to be terminally ill and in incredible pain I guess I will got for assisted suicide rather than suffering from uncontrollable pain.

Originally posted by winotka
I've only read about one state. Would you mind telling the second one? Thanks.

The second state to legalize assisted suicide would be Washington.
Of course...like the Death with Dignity act in Oregon, candidates must meet certain conditions. In other words...you basically have no chance at surviving.
Here's an interesting article link

Originally posted by jokei
Well, I think the main criteria should be the wishes of the person - this does, however, bring in the issue of people that for one reason or another may be unable to make that choice, for example someone suffering from dementia or alzheimers.
Although, I do think that with more open and frank discussion of the subject people would and should be able to carry something like a donor card.

Your card idea is interesting but i would keep this discussion only to people who are already unwell. It would be easy with dementia and alzeimer sufferes in modern times as they rarely fly under the radar. Diagnosis is usually quite early and so they would need to state their intentions early on. That way, once they are unable to decide with clear intent their original wishes would be carried out. If they don't decide early on then their family would not be allowed to decide and they would have to go through it all. This i would hope would stop abuse of the system.

Originally posted by RRconservative
Has anyone heard of "Hospice"?

If you are going to comment ona thread like this you need to read it. The fact you ask if anyone has heard of hospice proves you did not read much of this thread.

However let me address your points. The hospice is far from perfect. I respect the hospice, they do great work, but they can only manage suffering in certain conditions. Pain they can usually deal with, coughing up your own lung tissue, struggling to breath and feeling like you are drowning are not easy symptoms to mask.

Originally posted by RRconservative
Suicide should never be an option. Not with the advances in medicine we have today. They won't come out and say it but Morphine is regularly used.

I have experienced Hospice care first and second hand, and it is a peaceful way to go.

But you only talk of pain. There are many other ways of suffering you know. On top of that i will say that despite what you say here, not all pain can be masked. However, why shouldn't suicide be an option? What right do you have to tell me if i am allowed to end my life or not?

Originally posted by laiguana
The second state to legalize assisted suicide would be Washington.
Of course...like the Death with Dignity act in Oregon, candidates must meet certain conditions. In other words...you basically have no chance at surviving.
Here's an interesting article link

I find it rather shocking that the USA, granted only two states is more advanced than the UK. Here in the UK people often talk how we are more advanced with certain things than you guys. Like we have less opposition to abortion, less trobule with stem cell research and yet you legalise assisted suicide.

Well done is all i can say.

[edit on 7-6-2009 by ImaginaryReality1984]