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Do any Christians believe in life after death, ghosts or reincarnation?

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posted on Jun, 7 2009 @ 03:57 PM
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reply to post by incoserv
 



The Gospel of Mary and many other writings were not accepted as canon because they were, at that time as now, recognized as being from a tradition entirely different and distinct from Christianity, ie Gnosticism.


In addition to this, many of the "not allowed books" were written well after the early church period. Perhaps the third century, while those books that are in the Bible can be traced back to the first century, via the writings of church fathers and such.

The early church viewed them as forgeries too because they were written in the names of Apostles--i.e. the Gospel of Thomas or Judas, and the early church didn't take kindly to writings being written in someone's name.




posted on Jun, 7 2009 @ 03:58 PM
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reply to post by octotom
 


Hi Octotom
You posted lots of great info as usual. One question (you know I always have at least one lol). If the Christians go immediately to the lord, what are they doing until the end times?




Unless you're Christian, because when a Christian died, they're immediately with the Lord.



posted on Jun, 7 2009 @ 04:01 PM
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reply to post by Sundancer
 

Ghosts and demons, like their leader Satan, are deceivers. They will teach you things that are inconsistent with truth and the Bible in order to get you to believe a lie. This is spoken of in the New Testament by the Apostle Paul. He emphasizes this problem in many places. One of them is the "Satan can appear as an angel of light" passage most are familiar with. For example, the Mormon church is proud of the sacred grove encounter between Jesus, God the Father, and Joseph Smith, Jr. In the Bible, however, God is a spirit and invisible. As in the Garden of Eden with Eve, these "angels of light" pretending to be God are counseling JS that none of the churches are right, and that he should form a new one under their guidance. Sound familiar? Eve was also told that the guidance from God was wrong, and Satan had some new advice for her. It's the same old song, sung for thousands of years. Consider that the demons have been around for those thousands of years, and they can inhabit someone who is willing to give them a voice, and imitate such things as reincarnation, where someone can speak a foreign tongue or recall another life. Well, heck, the demons were there and know that information. But, if they can get you turn away from God and believe in reincarnation, you fall victim just as did Eve and Joseph Smith, and countless others. Your best bet is to put your faith on the rock, not on the sand.



posted on Jun, 7 2009 @ 04:06 PM
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reply to post by heyo
 

I do not judge others, as in Godly judgment of their deeds and their righteousness. I leave that to God. I just steer myself away from those who do evil, and hang out with those who do good. That's not to say I am Mr. Righteous, as the Bible indicates "all of our righteousness is as filthy rags" in Isaiah, and we need a redeemer to save us from ourselves.

Good luck in your quest to find the truth. I suggest you begin in the New Testament, book of John, as it is about the love of God for you.

Really, it's all about love...



posted on Jun, 7 2009 @ 04:07 PM
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reply to post by Jim Scott
 


While it's true that there will be "Christians" in hell, it's because they didn't truly accept Christ as Savior and were simply living with the name Christian--which isn't good enough.

To say that one can get to heaven apart from Christ goes against Christ's word, John 14.6:


Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.


It's true that Jesus died for all men, but not all men will accept the gift of salvation. Christ's righteousness can only be imputed to you if you accept it. Anyone else, tragically, will suffer eternity in hell. Jesus says this, and it's reiterated in Revelation 20.15:


And if anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.


Judging from the story of the Rich Man and Lazarus, hell is eternal because the rich man had no hope. He wanted someone to go tell his family and friends about hell so that they could escape the anguish that he was in. If hell was only a temporary thing, he could've just say back because, he would get out eventually, and so would his friends and family, if they went to where he was at.

Also, if hell doesn't exist and everyone just gets a free card to heaven, Christ's death was pointless--what was accomplished?



posted on Jun, 7 2009 @ 04:09 PM
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reply to post by Jim Scott
 



Jesus didn't come to save those that were already saved, he dined with prostitutes and all that. You go ahead and "stay inside" while the rest of us do the dirty work then



posted on Jun, 7 2009 @ 04:09 PM
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reply to post by Jim Scott
 


So in your opinion no one goes to hell on a permanent basis except maybe Satan? And everyone will eventually go to heaven because even the unsaved will love God? This is the type of attitude I would most expect from a God who gave his only son to save all. Good point.



posted on Jun, 7 2009 @ 04:12 PM
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reply to post by Sundancer
 



If the Christians go immediately to the lord, what are they doing until the end times?

On a simple level, worshiping Jesus and what not.

On a more sophisticated level, from my personal view, I believe that Jesus and God are outside of time. The implication of this is that, when I die, I go to Jesus, which puts me outside of time. From that point, no time has to pass between me dying and being reunited with my body at the rapture or the second coming because I'm beyond it, I can just "step into" the particular event at will.

I hope that makes sense. If it doesn't, let me know and I can try to explain it better.



posted on Jun, 7 2009 @ 04:14 PM
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reply to post by Jim Scott
 



one can look upon a stone foundation, only to look closer and see the cracks within it. The sand trickles in through the cracks, and eventually, all who've dug their roots into the stone are submerged beneath the deluge, without even seeing it coming.



posted on Jun, 7 2009 @ 04:19 PM
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Also, if hell doesn't exist and everyone just gets a free card to heaven, Christ's death was pointless--what was accomplished?

An excellent point also. We've got a lot of thinking to do yet about that issue. So many people have valid points in this area.
However what does seem to be agreed to by of most of the people so far on this thread is that
ghosts do exist but they are not our loved ones. Interesting isn't it considering how popular ghosts are?



posted on Jun, 7 2009 @ 04:21 PM
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reply to post by Sundancer
 



This is the type of attitude I would most expect from a God who gave his only son to save all.

This is human thinking though. We glean from Isaiah though that God's ways aren't our ways.

All humans have sinned. The sin needs to be paid for. Jesus Christ came to pay the penalty for our sin so that we don't have to. But, this gift only counts for someone if they accept it. Just like, if someone can hold a $20 bill out in their hand for me to have, I can't say it's mine and go spend it unless I grab hold of it, Christ's gift isn't imparted to us unless we ask for it.

Romans 6.23:

For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.


This doesn't mean though that God wants anyone to perish. In fact it's the opposite. Second Peter 3.9:


The Lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing for any to perish but for all to come to repentance.


But the fact still remains, sin needs to be paid for. Is someone going to do it themselves, through an eternity in hell, or will they accept Christ's atoning sacrifice.



posted on Jun, 7 2009 @ 04:25 PM
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reply to post by Sundancer
 



ghosts do exist but they are not our loved ones. Interesting isn't it considering how popular ghosts are?

Yes, it is interesting and, at least to me, tragic at the same time. If my belief is right and ghosts really are demons masquerading around as people's loved ones and such, it's tragic how many people are being lead astray pursuing occultish things due to it.

On the other hand though, it could be a "service" because if the person doesn't believe in the afterlife or anything like that, it could comfort them and shorten the grieving time and nonetheless provide hope.



posted on Jun, 7 2009 @ 04:34 PM
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Originally posted by octotom
reply to post by Sundancer
 



ghosts do exist but they are not our loved ones. Interesting isn't it considering how popular ghosts are?

Yes, it is interesting and, at least to me, tragic at the same time. If my belief is right and ghosts really are demons masquerading around as people's loved ones and such, it's tragic how many people are being lead astray pursuing occultish things due to it.

On the other hand though, it could be a "service" because if the person doesn't believe in the afterlife or anything like that, it could comfort them and shorten the grieving time and nonetheless provide hope.


I agree with you; that ghosts are part of an occultish leaning. However, could it be possible that ghosts are beings that can't shed their worldly imperfections? Such people who are murdered or die prematurely. For instance they can't come to grips with their death because they feel they have unfinished business here on earth. And if this is the case, they are unready to meet their Maker.

[edit on 7-6-2009 by Jakes51]

[edit on 7-6-2009 by Jakes51]



posted on Jun, 7 2009 @ 04:42 PM
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reply to post by Jakes51
 



could it be possible that ghosts are beings that can't shed their worldly imperfections?

I guess it could be possible. I would have to think about if that would jive with Hebrews 9.27.

This makes me think though. I believe that the Nephilim and "men of renown" spoken of in Genesis six are angel/human hybrids. I wonder if some of the ghosts that are seen could be their spirits, they're not human, they can't be judged because they're part angel. Maybe their spirits are just lingering because they have no place to go--not being entirely human or spirit being.



posted on Jun, 7 2009 @ 04:51 PM
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Good afternoon everyone, glad to see the conversation is still firing on all cylinders.

I am now armed with a good morning's sleep, fresh cup of coffee, my Bible, and an open mind.

So with that in mind I'm going to start scouring the Good Book for metaphors and examples of reincarnation, ghosts, and life after death.

And wow, this is one awesome cup of coffee!



posted on Jun, 7 2009 @ 04:53 PM
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I don't know whether to laugh, or cry. Many of you know my thoughts on the topic of religion. I do find credence in the 'historical tale'. Now, the bible is explicitly clear that we are all of FALLEN MAN. We can only at best regain what WE THREW AWAY.

The Bible also clearly states that Satan/Evil is bound to this Earth, and Dimension. We aren't in a good place by those standards. Culmanating this would indicate that we are indeed in a 'dreamworld', or better put a nightmare. There is a ton of "chatter" regarding this on the Internet; an awakening.

Now, I really do not see the arguement regarding the forgotten gospels as anything other than a 'dark washing' by Evil itself. Sure, some of the gospels don't jive, but that is a choice as students we should all learn about....OURSELVES.

To say that it was a grand consensus of intellectuals to leave them out is, well a joke. Look at today's modern age. We vote, and decide by how much something is PROMOTED. Promotion makes the world turn, and always has. He who wins makes the history, and he who has the money decides/promotes what the masses, or sheeple will believe.

Now, go read the bible, or what they allowed into, and it clearly states that most will not REGAIN what was lost through original stupidity



posted on Jun, 7 2009 @ 04:57 PM
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reply to post by sanchoearlyjones
 


exactly. History is written by the powerful, who time and time again betray their selfish agenda's with their lies.



posted on Jun, 7 2009 @ 04:59 PM
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reply to post by GuiltyByDesign
 


Good morning Guilty glad to see you back!
I'm just putting the finishing touches on a DNA thread, what I wouldn't give for a great cup of ICED coffee right now.



posted on Jun, 7 2009 @ 04:59 PM
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The more I thought about all of this one the drive home this AM, the more that I'm convinced that organized religion is being used to hold us back.

If any of us were to mention hardly anything in this thread in ANY 'accepted' denominational church we would have been lauged into the streets and accused of heresy and called pyschopaths.

What if organized religion is there as a lure? Think of it... deep within every human is the urge to learn and to seek for something. What that something is can be different for each of us, but what most of us yearn for is knowledge of exactly who we are and what our purpose is.

Denying faith outright would make controlling the populace impossible. But create an organization, fill it with the very basic, outer-frill truth, spew it to the masses, and not only have you satisfied the basic urge of humanity for knowledge, you've created a base of 'experts' who can debunk anyone who speak out of the established norms.



posted on Jun, 7 2009 @ 05:00 PM
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reply to post by Sundancer
 


DNA thread? Count me in, the more I think it the more I'm certain that our locked genetic coding is holding us back from far greater and more wonderful things, in both faith and science.



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