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Do any Christians believe in life after death, ghosts or reincarnation?

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posted on Jun, 6 2009 @ 09:24 PM
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If God promises that you'll inherit the earth and doesn't actually promise you the kingdom of heaven as was brought to my attention in another post earlier today, why would you not believe in reincarnation?

On the other hand if the biblical translation of hell is actually the word grave, and if God said you'll sleep there until Jesus returns, then I can see you believing in reincarnation.

'Hell' is an Anglo-Saxon word for grave
( a 'hell-ground' was a graveyard) and in the Old Testament
is usually translated from an original Hebrew word 'Sheol'
meaning pit or grave.

"In the sweat of your face you shall eat bread Till you return to the ground, For out of it you were taken; For dust you are, And to dust you shall return. Genesis 3:19

The Bible says that death is a "sleep" - you will "sleep" in the grave in a state of unconsciousness, completely unaware of the passage of time or the presence of others until Christ returns to resurrect you.

It also says

"For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. Therefore comfort one another with these words". 1 Thessalonians 4:16-18

The dead stay in the grave until Jesus returns. There wouldn't be any point of God coming back, should his people already be in heaven as some teach.

So as a Christian, do you believe in life after death, ghosts, or reincarnation or do you believe as the bible states that you go to the grave until Jesus returns?




posted on Jun, 6 2009 @ 10:26 PM
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well um if your a real beliver in jesus, then yes u must belive in all these things,demons,spirits,evil,satan,reimcarnation,eternal life,ect.



posted on Jun, 6 2009 @ 10:34 PM
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In one of the books that was not allowed in the bible, I believe it was in both the gospel of Mary and the apocalypse of Peter they talk of a particular soul. This soul was brought out of the bottomless pit(sheol) from a bolt of lightning issuing from the throne of God, and "brought to the earth to a body prepared for it". Whose soul this is, is unknown. But after reading this, my thoughts on reincarnation changed dramatically. Perhaps this soul is the legendary prophet Elijah or one of the others? This soul had to pass a series of tests, or rather overcome certain powers, the 7 spirits of wrath.

and Desire said, 'I did not see you descend; but now I see you rising. Why do you speak falsely, when you belong to me?' The soul answered and said, 'I saw you, but you did not see me or recognize me; I served you as a garment and you did not recognize me.' After it had said this, it went joyfully and gladly away. Again it came to the third power, Ignorance. This power questioned the soul: 'Whither are you going? You were bound in wickedness, you were bound indeed. Judge not' [cf. Matt. 7:1]. And the soul said, 'Why do you judge me, when I judged not? I was bound, though I did not bind. I was not recognized, but I recognized that all will go free, things both earthly and heavenly.' After the soul had left the third power behind, it rose upward, and saw the fourth power, which had seven forms. The first form is darkness, the second desire, the third ignorance, the fourth the arousing of death, the fifth is the kingdom of the flesh, the sixth is the wisdom of the folly of the flesh, the seventh is wrathful wisdom. These are the seven participants in wrath. They ask the soul, 'Whence do you come, killer of men, or where are you going, conqueror of space?' The soul answered and said, 'What seizes me is killed; what turns me about is overcome; my desire has come to an end and ignorance is dead. In a world I was saved from a world, and in a "type," from a higher "type" and from the fetter of the impotence of knowledge, the existence of which is temporal. From this time I will reach rest in the time of the moment of the Aeon in silence.'"



posted on Jun, 6 2009 @ 10:55 PM
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reply to post by Centurionx
 


Very, very interesting post. Thank you. Next I will read both the gospel of Mary and the apocalypse of Peter.

At a quick glance the particular soul that you spoke of didn't seem to belong to a man "killer of men" and I wonder since it went to a body that had to be "prepared for it" exactly what that preparation entailed?

It really bothers me that they didn't "allow" certain books into the bible. Who wouldn't feel the book of Mary would be an important addition?



posted on Jun, 6 2009 @ 11:11 PM
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reply to post by Sundancer
 


Around 300 AD a guy by the name of Constatine became a christian. As his society was very patriarical at the time any writings associated with women would be frowned upon.
Not saying it's right.
Throughout the centuries popes (all men) developed the catholic church (mine, and I know it isn't perfect) more or less the same way, very "chauvinistic" in its thinking.

It's a pity to think of the knowledge thats been wasted. The insight, the lessons.



posted on Jun, 6 2009 @ 11:24 PM
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reply to post by Sundancer
 


Yes it is very cryptic, this quote is from Mary's gospel and I to can not believe they would not allow this in the bible. To me these texts are sacred and removing them from the bible or rather not allowing them is just wrong. The "killer of men" thing makes me wonder if the soul is Elijah, because he had killed around 450 "prophets" of Baal after he proved the God of Israel is indeed the LORD God. After he had done this Queen Jezebel of Israel sought to kill him, I believe she said in the book of Kings "May the gods do to me what you have done, and more also if I don't take your life by this time tomorrow."

Elijah was taken to heaven in a "chariot of fire"(ufo?) before they could get to him. He also raised a few people from the dead and healed the sick.
I guess you could call me a christian, however I don't go to church anymore, and my ideas would definitely be considered radical by most if not all denominations.

Here is the what was said after the one part I mentioned:

When Mary had said this, she was silent, since the Savior had spoken thus far with her. But Andrew answered and said to the brethren, 'Say what you think concerning what she said. For I do not believe that the Savior said this. For certainly these teachings are of other ideas."

Peter also opposed her in regard to these matters and asked them about the Savior. "Did he then speak secretly with a woman [cf. John 4:27], in preference to us, and not openly? Are we to turn back and all listen to her? Did he prefer her to us?" Then Mary grieved and said to Peter, "My brother Peter, what do you think? Do you think that I thought this up myself in my heart or that I am lying concerning the Savior?"

Levi answered and said to Peter, "Peter, you are always irate. Now I see that you are contending against the woman like the adversaries. But if the Savior made her worthy, who are you to reject her? Surely the Savior knew her very well [cf. Luke 10:38- 42]. For this reason he loved her more than us [cf. John 11:5]. And we should rather be ashamed and put on the Perfect Man, to form us [?] as he commanded us, and proclaim the gospel, without publishing a further commandment or a further law than the one which the Savior spoke." When Levi had said this, they began to go out in order to proclaim him and preach him.

edit: Also, in other versions of the bible Elijah was said to have been taken by God in a "whirlwind" If I had to pick a church to go to, I'd love to see the old Gothic cathedrals in person, absolutely stunning.


[edit on 6-6-2009 by Centurionx]



posted on Jun, 6 2009 @ 11:39 PM
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I posted this in a thread that I started sometime ago... this is imo Jesus telling the disciples that John the Baptist was Elijah reincarnated...

Matthew 17:12-13 (King James Version)

12But I say unto you, That Elias is come already, and they knew him not, but have done unto him whatsoever they listed. Likewise shall also the Son of man suffer of them.
13Then the disciples understood that he spake unto them of John the Baptist.

Now correct me if I am wrong, but the discussion was on the last days and how the disciples didn't think that day could come until Elias aka Elijah came back, to which in my own words Jesus tells them that Elijah had returned but as John the baptist but that no one recognized him...am I misreading this?



posted on Jun, 6 2009 @ 11:44 PM
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reply to post by mikerussellus
 


I know where you're coming from, I was raised catholic and while it's not perfect none are. The traditions and ceremonies are beautiful.
There were other books removed from the bible that were written by men and yes it's a shame that so much was lost. I'm sure one could find more than one conspiracy theory in why those certain books were left out.
The reason I mentioned the gospels of Mary in particular was because of her relationship with Jesus.



posted on Jun, 6 2009 @ 11:48 PM
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reply to post by Centurionx
 


Excellent reading... The reason I was most interested in the information you gave me from the gospels of Mary was the part about the preparation of the body for that particular soul. I have a theory that I'm working on that makes me believe the fig tree that they speak of in Mat 24:32-33 may actually be eluding to DNA.

"When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh: So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is...even at the doors" (Mat. 24:32-33).



posted on Jun, 6 2009 @ 11:52 PM
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I believe that for Christians, life after death is certainly part of the belief system. Reincarnation? I think the scriptures assembled by the Catholics certainly don't promote this sort of thinking. However, when John the Baptist arrived on the scene, many Jews thought he was a reincarnation of an earlier prophet. Hmmm. Ghosts. Saul was seeking information about why God no longer talked to him and he sought the help of a witch, yikes! He had already outlawed such practices. Yet the Witch of Endor raised the spirit of Samuel from his sleep and Samuel set Saul straight as to what would happen the next day. Saul would die in battle.

Okay. I call myself a Christian. No, I am not a "good" Christian. Let's be clear about that. I sin, have always sinned and probably will continue to sin. I try my best and continue to improve myself in being a spiritual being and a person who does his best to do well unto others. I call myself a Christian because I believe Jesus had great words to say and also because I believe he was the Son of God. He might very well be the ONLY Son of God. But that doesn't mean he was never here before, nor since. Actually, this is where I differ from any of the teachings of Jesus, heh, in the various protestant churches I was forced to attend as a child. The difference is Jesus told his apostles, don't you know you are all gods? Did he mean god's. or did he mean gods. I don't know. But from my experiences in meditating and visions I beleive Jesus was saying "gods". As in we are all part of God. The creator. The universe. And I believe all souls, or spirits come and go from various lives and plantets, etc. We are born again into different physical forms.

My theory is that we, none of us can come to the father unless we first go through Jesus, as he stated. We all, in various times meet up with the ideas and maybe even the physical carnation of God as a human, or whatever shape we are in at the time. And the message is given to us. It seems like to me that we need it over and over again. I don't know why. It could be Jesus, Buddha, Quetzlquatl, SP? Spaghetti Monster, whatever the carnation is at that time and place. Oh, I ramble. If you can understand a bit of what I say, then great. If not, it doesn't matter. I know what I mean. We all will learn the truth eventually. The message comes to us via a physical messenger wherever we are, in whatever culture we live in, whatever sort of physical body we inhabit. It's all tailor made for each peoples. Okay, lol. I give up. lol. I tried and perhaps miserably failed. Maybe next life I will be given the ability to explain better. See you there!!!!!!

My apologies for not better explaining my ideas.

[edit on 6-6-2009 by kyred]



posted on Jun, 7 2009 @ 12:10 AM
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reply to post by Greenize
 


I read it the same way, and kyred's post below (which I'm reading now) would certainly lend credence to your theory. Can you post your thread here?



when John the Baptist arrived on the scene, many Jews thought he was a reincarnation of an earlier prophet.
By kyred



posted on Jun, 7 2009 @ 12:22 AM
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reply to post by Sundancer
 


www.belowtopsecret.com...

There ya go. My thread was moved to below top secret because it failed I guess to meet with the conspiracy guidelines.



posted on Jun, 7 2009 @ 12:25 AM
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There is not a single christian I know of that believes in life after death. Why do you think they sob uncontrollably at funerals or shriek when they are about to die in a plane crash. If you are going to eternal bliss in heaven wouldn't you be going "woohoo!!!", and when a loved one dies they are going to paradise so "awesome!!". You can't debunk me here.. just look at the pope driving around in a bullet proof mercedes lol.

[edit on 7-6-2009 by contemplator]



posted on Jun, 7 2009 @ 12:25 AM
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reply to post by Sundancer
 


We must believe in all those things. Jesus, or the bible at least, speaks of Jon being the spirit of elijah (or something like that...the spirit of elijah is said to reincarnate at one time or another), life after death is, well, self-evident, and ghosts and the rest are either demons or angels, depending on what they say and who they respond to.



posted on Jun, 7 2009 @ 12:28 AM
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reply to post by contemplator
 


Wow, how exceedingly narrow your mindset is. People cry at funerals because loved ones are gone. They are happy for them, yes, in a way, but geez...I don't even know what to say. wow. That might be the dumbest reasoning i've ever seen.
it's even worse than mine when i used to come on the site all drunk or stoned.





posted on Jun, 7 2009 @ 12:31 AM
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Well, I'm enjoying reading, and learning this thread. I for one believe that all knowledge is internal; it's just a matter of finding it. The external sources of knowledge only help us tap into what we know.

Now regarding the bible, it does only reflect ONE group of people. That would be the Israelites. To be clear I'm not a racist, but I do not think the current Jews sitting in Palestine are Israelites. In fact, I'd think that if looking in that area for them, then I'd have to point the finger at the Palestinians who've been there for thousands of years.

I wouldn't know what an Israelite would look like in person, but I'm thinking the "PTB"(powers that be) do know how to find them. I don't know where sun dancer is going with her DNA 'angle', but I think it is the right direction. Anyone notice the mass unusual undertaking of DNA gathering on the planet? The taking of DNA is massive at this point in time.

Now, what if through let's say the Israelite strain of DNA it allows certain souls to enter this dimension? If that was the case, then that would explain the DNA gathering, and profiling.

Everyone reading this thread obviously "believes". If you believe, then it shouldn't be to hard to see the evil in this world. It shouldn't be to hard to look around at the stacked NWO deck of cards.

With the DNA records they can track the possibility of the 144,000 virgins/souls(I don't think it is a sexually pure....reference of the word).



posted on Jun, 7 2009 @ 12:39 AM
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Originally posted by contemplator
There is not a single christian I know of that believes in life after death. Why do you think they sob uncontrollably at funerals or shriek when they are about to die in a plane crash. If you are going to eternal bliss in heaven wouldn't you be going "woohoo!!!", and when a loved one dies they are going to paradise so "awesome!!". You can't debunk me here.. just look at the pope driving around in a bullet proof mercedes lol.

[edit on 7-6-2009 by contemplator]


That is one of the single dumbest posts I have ever read on this site.

How about they will still miss their loved ones or dying is a very scary thing to look at in the face (trust me, I have seen it).

The sad thing is that you edited your post and this is what you ended up with.



posted on Jun, 7 2009 @ 12:42 AM
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I've been to countless funerals, several of evangelicals. I have a tendency to say controversial things that many can't handle. I am telling you, the grieving I have seen in no way has any linkage to simply missing someone or being happy in other ways. The grieving I have seen by evangelicals is that of sheer horror knowing their loved one is gone, that they are the same place they were before birth = nowhere. I would not grieve my loved ones for a second if I knew they were going to eternal paradise and bliss. I would be celebrating for them. But we all know what the deal is, some just don't face it.



posted on Jun, 7 2009 @ 12:42 AM
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Yep, I'd have to mostly agree with contemplator regarding sobbing, and crying. I understand tears for funerals, in the sense that I'll be missing something from my life. However, good god, for the just about to die whimpering little b*st*rd proclaiming his faith.....well, that one is a little telling of serious doubt on their part

For the record regarding the original thread, I think that indeed all of it can be true; quantum physics.

[edit on 7-6-2009 by sanchoearlyjones]



posted on Jun, 7 2009 @ 12:46 AM
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reply to post by kyred
 





I call myself a Christian. No, I am not a "good" Christian.

I also have a theory I'm working on regarding "good Christians" I'm not so sure the sinners who claim to be good Christians are really so good after all, but that's for another post.




Yet the Witch of Endor raised the spirit of Samuel from his sleep and Samuel set Saul straight as to what would happen the next day. Saul would die in battle.

This lends credence to the theory that when you die - You sleep, as the witch raised his spirit from sleep.




The difference is Jesus told his apostles, don't you know you are all gods? Did he mean god's. or did he mean gods.


He must have meant gods since nothing more was stated after that. We know there are other gods because God himself said...

“You shall have no other *gods* before me. You shall not make for yourself an idol, whether in the form of anything that is in heaven above, or that is on the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth. You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I the Lord your God am a jealous God, punishing children for the iniquity of parents, to the third and fourth generation of those who reject me, but showing steadfast love to the thousandth generation of those who love me and keep my commandments.”*

You made a lot of sense thanks for posting.



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