Originally posted by Iamonlyhuman
Me thinks you think too much....

Me thinks two things:
1. There's no such thing.
2. This is what the bible does to you.

Originally posted by Riposte
God is neither good nor bad. God simply is.

It is the human mind that creates suffering and the concepts of good and bad, because it exists in duality. God is beyond duality.

It's beyond everything we can think of. We may be open minded all we want to be but open minded does not include the infinite. It represents new things, but only some new things that we can understand. New things are as old as the universe, in fact new things are not new at all. It's just new for us. They have always been there. That is what some will fail to understand. Religion is god under our perception and interpretation but god is not new. Some things look new as concept, just like religion.

The interpretation of god by religion is what we try to do, because it's always new to us, anything unclear or unknown will always be new to humans. Some people try to take on god, what they do not see is that they are only taking on the concepts of other people.

The people doing this are well aware that there is something and get frustrated, god did this and god did that. All because someone wanted to explain god. I think there is a god and religion is just to deal with the existence of god. Religion is just an inaccurate primitive calculator trying to act as a translator.

I think that there are two different concepts being discussed here:

1. God the eternal and unknowable
2. God the jealous and interfering from the Old Testament

I think Hurrican made this point a little earlier in the thread. What we think of as our creators are not the same concept as God the eternal and unknowable, who is everything etc.

I do believe the OP was talking about the Old Testament God. I also think it is lazy to just dismiss the bloodshed in the Old Testament by saying, "We cannot understand the motives." I also think it is not addressing the point to say that God lets us do things to ourselves. The point is, what about all the bloodshed carried out by God himself?

A perfectly good god.
A perfectly good god would not give bad ppl eternal suffering.
A good god would not abandon his ppl what ever they do?

Well it depends on the point of view and the way we understand the words and so on.

Many books of the Bible were written hundreds of years later than the actual life of Christ. That would be like someone trying to tell the story of my life 200 to 300 years later. We all know from kindergarten that if you tell one person a secret and by the time it gets to the end of the circle it is nothing like what was actually said in the beginning. Now imagine doing this through hundreds of years. I'm not religous but I do consider myself spiritual and the best place to look for the truth is within.
PS. Why is it that God no longer talks to people with a big booming voice anymore like he did with Moses????????????

There's lots I can say about this subject as it used to be one of my favourite subjects to debate, but it's hard debating with people who are brainwashed.

I'll just leave you with this. If you're good AT THE TIME OF YOUR DEATH (this is something which can be debated on it's own), you go to Heaven right? Heaven, the beautiful perfect place where you live in eternal bliss along with beautiful angels who will never hurt you, right? Um, newsflash, even before the Universe was created, there was a WAR IN HEAVEN. Think about that. One of God's right-hand angels along with many other angels rebelled against God and God creates a place for evil. Exactly how safe and blissful can Heaven be if an ARCHANGEL turns his back on God? Who says the first (we presume) war in Heaven was the last? To me that's the biggest nail in the coffin of Christianity and there's no defense against it.

Case closed, right?

EDIT: My bad. That's kinda off-topic. To get on-topic. I believe the Bible is about aliens. "Heaven" is the name of the planet they come from or might even be their mother-ship. Yahweh wanted to play God, but Lucifer (I'm just using common names for them), wanted humans to be free from oppression and be equal to "the gods". Unfortunately Yahweh was stronger and Lucifer lost the "War in Heaven".

So, in short, I agree with the OP, Lucifer is "the good guy" and God/Yahweh is "the bad guy". Even though I'm anti-Richard Dawkins, I agree fully with him on how he describes God (vindictive, jealous, etc).

[edit on 9-6-2009 by Lannock]

Originally posted by Lannock
I believe the Bible is about aliens. "Heaven" is the name of the planet they come from or might even be their mother-ship. Yahweh wanted to play God, but Lucifer (I'm just using common names for them), wanted humans to be free from oppression and be equal to "the gods". Unfortunately Yahweh was stronger and Lucifer lost the "War in Heaven".

So, in short, I agree with the OP, Lucifer is "the good guy" and God/Yahweh is "the bad guy". Even though I'm anti-Richard Dawkins, I agree fully with him on how he describes God (vindictive, jealous, etc).

[edit on 9-6-2009 by Lannock]

I agree with this summation.
I have thought this out many times, and it is the only way that it makes sense to me.

It is my belief that a good and loving God would not let people suffer ergo it is my conclusion that God is caught up in the same mess as we are.

You have to understand that evil forces have saught to bring him down for their whole existance and the pure lack of his presense may well mean they have succeeded to some extent.

So in answer to the OP's question is God bad? the answer is undoubtably NO, he is the original spark of consciousness from which all other forms of consciousness stemmed. He is the first mover, from which all other movement gathered momentum.

It is my opinion that Adam was God, as was Jesus, as was Osiris. The big bang happened because of a battle between good and evil started a long time ago. There is most definely truth in the charactor called Enki who is at the moment the evil controling god responsible for all the pain and suffering you see today. It is this god that needs to pay for the abominable acts he has commited against humanity, the real God and nature itself. Until he is brought down there will always be suffering in existance.

[edit on 9-6-2009 by pharaohmoan]

Originally posted by SharkBait
Lucifer is a fallen Angel and his name was given to him by God.

Can you please point out which bible verse states this?

Thank you.

We are here to learn and experience for God. If the world was a perfect place what would we learn. There has to be bad with the good. What have you learned when everything was going perfect for you. The best learning lessons have come from times when things weren't so good. We decide before we ever incarnate what our lives will hold. We use our free will to make decisions along the way.

Actually God isn't what you thought. Why can I write what I am going to write...........because it isn't/won't be believed by most and because I can write about it.

God(s) is a name the human gave and this God they said came from Heaven which in times past meant "from the skies"

What is acceptable is the word God or even Creator. In the Universe your God/Creator is just known as the "ELDERS"

These Elders are extremely tall Grey's, all Grey's are not bad/evil just as all humans are not bad even though some humans do bad things.

This Planet is monitored 24/7 and all those stars up there are not stars.

To answer your question the Elders are GOOD.

Hey, but what do I know!

Is God good or bad. Easy to see how BAD God is.

I prayed for 20 years for some basic human needs ( a sig other, a family, a normal, stable life). I got....

*My heart broken severely.

*Talents that make my friends stare in disbelief (arts, music, ect ect ect)- and Any and ALL attempts at use to enrich and further my life- screwed over in ways I cant even begin to explain.

* I am left on basic 'life support'- I have food, shelter, power, and yes- internet (who doesn't in some form or another unless you live in a mud hut- and even then....)- I am allowed only certain things in my life. Anything other than 'certain things' becomes an all out disaster.

* God's 'happy little piss ant followers' love to tell me constantly how "Blessed!" I am that I am LIVING. And then split hairs about how I can see, hear, ect ect. If this is living- let me DIE.

*These same SOBs like to then proceed to stab me in the back, as screwed as I am, and on top of insult and injury, get whatever their dark little hearts pray for- and then have every excuse ever heard- and invent a few extra on the spot- as to why THEY get good things, and I get left with a toilet full of week old *ahem* crap.

*Ask any person who has had their child die, or massive misfortune befall them how 'good' God is. Not convinced? Read Job- or as I like to call it " God hangs out in Vegas". Screws someone over- inflicts disease all over him, and when Job asks why... " BECAUSE I CAN, MORTAL!" Of course Job gets double back. You always do when you gamble..... Even when you're a pawn, evidently.

And this just isnt me. THink of how many millions go thru this, HAVE gone thru this- and only the real insane ones praise this capricious, uncaring deity for his 'love'.

Also- keep in mind- if God is 'good', WHY did God create a being he KNEW would turn evil- and then let this being have at it anywhere he wanted? It's like raising a kid to be a crook- but you're a 'good' parent. Or so you'd say...

[edit on 14-6-2009 by wylekat]

Originally posted by wylekat
Is God good or bad. Easy to see how BAD God is.

I prayed for 20 years for some basic human needs ( a sig other, a family, a normal, stable life). I got....

*My heart broken severely.

*Talents that make my friends stare in disbelief (arts, music, ect ect ect)- and Any and ALL attempts at use to enrich and further my life- screwed over in ways I cant even begin to explain.

* I am left on basic 'life support'- I have food, shelter, power, and yes- internet (who doesn't in some form or another unless you live in a mud hut- and even then....)- I am allowed only certain things in my life. Anything other than 'certain things' becomes an all out disaster.

* God's 'happy little piss ant followers' love to tell me constantly how "Blessed!" I am that I am LIVING. And then split hairs about how I can see, hear, ect ect. If this is living- let me DIE.

*These same SOBs like to then proceed to stab me in the back, as screwed as I am, and on top of insult and injury, get whatever their dark little hearts pray for- and then have every excuse ever heard- and invent a few extra on the spot- as to why THEY get good things, and I get left with a toilet full of week old *ahem* crap.

*Ask any person who has had their child die, or massive misfortune befall them how 'good' God is. Not convinced? Read Job- or as I like to call it " God hangs out in Vegas". Screws someone over- inflicts disease all over him, and when Job asks why... " BECAUSE I CAN, MORTAL!" Of course Job gets double back. You always do when you gamble..... Even when you're a pawn, evidently.

And this just isnt me. THink of how many millions go thru this, HAVE gone thru this- and only the real insane ones praise this capricious, uncaring deity for his 'love'.

Also- keep in mind- if God is 'good', WHY did God create a being he KNEW would turn evil- and then let this being have at it anywhere he wanted? It's like raising a kid to be a crook- but you're a 'good' parent. Or so you'd say...

[edit on 14-6-2009 by wylekat]

I have never had anything too bad happen to me, I've had pets die, friends diagnosed as ill (severely in one particular case) and even family die, to me these are bad things, just not bad enough to 'bowl me over' (yet.).

I cannot even begin to understand what you may have gone through, but! (There's always a but isn't there?)

For me, I see it as I was supposed to experience this. I am not afraid of death, I am quite looking forward to it, yet if I were too lose a close friend, girlfriend or my mum (only parent) then I would be devastated, I would like to think my faith would hold ("I was supposed to experience this, I needed to understand this pain first hand") but I'm just not sure.

The worst part of death for me is leaving people behind, or being left behind.

For you I say accept that you were supposed to experience these things and try and find out what you may have learned/supposed to have learned, this always easier said than done.

Then maybe you can help people deal with these obstacles as they come up, as you have done.

I would like to add, I am not religious, I do not follow any religion, but I try and find spirituality where I can, I do believe in a God, just not some dude who sits on a cloud judging whether people are worthy or not of his love/attention.

Good luck and I'm sorry if I am one of those people you mentioned in your post above, I just don't like seeing people 'lost' in the dark.

EMM

God is Perfect and teaches peace and love your enemys.
God Is Good
If people would heed His teachings this world would be the wonderful place indeed but He gave us freedom of choice so we wouldn't be a bunch of puppets and our lives are a result of our own decisions.

God Is Good

Originally posted by AmericanDaughter
God is Perfect and teaches peace and love your enemys.
God Is Good
If people would heed His teachings this world would be the wonderful place indeed but He gave us freedom of choice so we wouldn't be a bunch of puppets and our lives are a result of our own decisions.

God Is Good

Which teachings would that be, the old one's or the new ones?

Sorry, couldn't help myself.

But seriously, on the one hand he offers love for all and on the other, if you don't believe in him and dedicate your life to him, he sentences you to eternal torture?

For me, 'that' God doesn't deserve an ounce of my time, let alone my life dedicated to him.

That said, if more people listened to what 'he said' then I would agree with you, this would be a better place, (some of what he said at least).

EMM

God bad???

well i would not say so!!! im nor christian nor muslim nor atheist

when god created everything billions of years ago, he/she whent in to small pieces, created the antimatter , then the matter etc,etc,etc,what is left of him is the Cosmic energy that what is radiating the true energy what scientist have problem with, it is that what expands this universe, well at least this is just something from my memory, i wont go in to details on that,

God is not evil nor good God is neutral, and seeking for the truth who did create god, if so there most had been something before him and before that entity too....

Is God bad ???

That which is known as God/ is both........judgments


That which is "Divinely Being" .....is neither the neither of neither ...
In other words it is with-out opinion .....
it sees what simply is...
with out any need for judgment

"The line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being.
And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart? "