is God bad ?, page 4
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ATS Members have flagged this thread 10 times


reply posted on 7-6-2009 @ 09:31 AM by XXXN3O
Originally posted by gypsychology909
From childhood I had a very simple question that has not been fully resolved. In fact, all I remember is this one teacher giving me a mean look when I asked her. Either a)she was caught off guard or b)she thought I was only being a troublemaker and it was not worthy of any response.

If we assume the very basic concept we are taught that god = good and devil = bad , if you are good you go to heaven and get rewarded and if you are bad you go to hell and be punished and tortured then (see how basic it is yet this is where my compass goes crazy) I'm torn by this confusion. Wouldn't it seem logical that if you were tempted by the devil to be bad during your life and fell weak to his/her sinful influence and therefore wound up in hell with them being the CEO, instead of the whole suffering , nose deep in excrement scenario where satan goes water skiing every Sunday, wouldn't the devil 'reward' you ?? A couple of hi fives my brotha, you killed 7 and a half ppl and blew up a school bus, you da man - grab a corner office by me and enjoy the bonuses .......type thing??

It would appear that god and the devil are in total unison, on the same side just with a different job. Is this the case?
Somehow devil + god = the same if penance is to be had for being bad. I don't know. Please..

I confess I have never read the bible. I mean no harm by my ignorance. If my understanding of all of this seems neanderthal, it's just that I never assigned a high value to understanding this huge debate of conflict - creation vs evolution. I just chose not to.

So someone pls help . If devil stands for evil, and you are an evil person on earth, and when you die you take the elevetor down to his front door. Knock-knock....... what happens???? Is he that much of a deceiver?

Kind regards.
G.

ps. maybe I should just read the damn thing and get it over with.


God created man and created lucifer. Lucifer was orignally an angel that ruled alongside god.

Lucifer believed that he should rule and to keep this short, this resulted in hell being created with lucifer being cast into it.

God created man in the garden of eden in his own image, free of sin, with free will and completely innocent.

The devil tempted man to take from the tree of knowledge of the world outside the garden of eden.

Man gained knowledge of the world outside and lost innocence.

The result is this life outside the garden of eden that we have, we are here on the path of knowledge just as was chosen.

The devil is a temptor and the ultimate goal is to lead people away from god through lies. The end goal being to topple and rule heaven which is in itself not going to happen as god is the creator of even satan.

Thats it in a nutshell but if your curious, read the book and think for yourself is what I would recommend.


reply posted on 7-6-2009 @ 09:33 AM by XXXN3O
Originally posted by karl 12
reply to post by nomorecruelty


I take it you don't agree with this quote then.

"The God of the Old Testament is arguably the most unpleasant character in all fiction: jealous and proud of it; a petty, unjust, unforgiving control-freak; a vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciously malevolent bully."
Richard Dawkins




Its amazing how much that sounds like a half educated child with a chip on their shoulder speaking about a father that they have never taken the time to understand.



[edit on 7-6-2009 by XXXN3O]


reply posted on 7-6-2009 @ 09:46 AM by LiveForever8
reply to post by XXXN3O


Its nothing to laugh about.

Its embarrassing that people believe in God.

Surely we have evolved beyond the need to believe in a God.



reply posted on 7-6-2009 @ 10:07 AM by XXXN3O
reply to post by LiveForever8


I dont think anyone needs to believe in god just because they need too.

I believe in god and was very against religion for a long time, my older posts will show that on this site as well.

When you observe the world, what is going on, remain open minded and ask questions. You might find that its more true than you would ever have thought.

Being open minded is after all being able to accept other viewpoints that might conflict with your own and throughout life if events challenge who you are at the core it would be ignorant to ignore what appears as obvious truth to you.

I respect other peoples views and I enjoy debating as I think it is important to share experiences. We are all here at the end of the day with no instictive perception of right and wrong at the start.

I do find a lot of famous athiests views amusing, some with confusion, others I can relate to from past experience. I also agree to an extent that religion can be abused as anything else can be as well.

I think you might be generalising a tad too much when it comes to the subject of god and saying that it is embarrasing is being pompous more than anything else.

[edit on 7-6-2009 by XXXN3O]


reply posted on 7-6-2009 @ 10:16 AM by LiveForever8
reply to post by XXXN3O


So how did you come to believe in God eventually then?

It is one thing to be raised with a certain religion. But to be skeptical of religions and then subscribe to one? I will never understand im afraid.


reply posted on 7-6-2009 @ 10:29 AM by XXXN3O
Originally posted by LiveForever8
reply to post by XXXN3O


So how did you come to believe in God eventually then?

It is one thing to be raised with a certain religion. But to be skeptical of religions and then subscribe to one? I will never understand im afraid.


I came to believe in god after a number of things happened in my life, one of which I mentioned in this thread below.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

If you read my replies in the thread above you will see where I am coming from.

Also a lot of world events made me question the bigger picture motive wise.

In a nutshell in life I have went in a full circle right back to the first answer that I ignored.
Walking a path teaches you a lot and I have met many corrupt people that I turned away from.
The world itself has become topsy turvey,
greed is labelled ambition and encouraged.
We live in a debt based system where we are slave to money.
Most people are jealous of each other in a keep up with the Jones' mentality.
Judgement is passed straight away when it comes to other people.
I could go but I am sure you get my drift.

I do have to ask, what makes you feel that its embarrasing for people to believe in god?



Add an "O" to the title of this thread and it would sum up the world right now.

"Is good bad?"

PS I dont subscribe to a religion, I believe in god.

[edit on 7-6-2009 by XXXN3O]



reply posted on 7-6-2009 @ 10:44 AM by LiveForever8
reply to post by XXXN3O


Well if it is god (small g) then i will never argue against it. After all, why are we here? How did we get here? Meaning of life? etc,etc...

But for someone to say they believe in the Biblical God (Jahweh) and present the Bible as fact is a load of nonsense. There is no proof. No hard evidence to back up its massive claims. Whereas there is massive evidence against the Bibles teachings.
More people should believe in science than religions, the world would be a better place.

I know it is different in America (especially in some areas) but where i am from it is thought of as ridiculous to believe in God. I actually dont know anyone who does!


reply posted on 7-6-2009 @ 10:46 AM by karl 12
Originally posted by XXXN3O
Originally posted by karl 12
reply to post by nomorecruelty


I take it you don't agree with this quote then.

"The God of the Old Testament is arguably the most unpleasant character in all fiction: jealous and proud of it; a petty, unjust, unforgiving control-freak; a vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciously malevolent bully."
Richard Dawkins




Its amazing how much that sounds like a half educated child with a chip on their shoulder speaking about a father that they have never taken the time to understand.




I suppose if you've got a vested interest in believing the bible to be anything more than just a book then you may well hold that opinion but to me it sounds like a fair enough apprasial.

I also agree with this comment made by anthropologist John Hartung:

"The Bible is a blueprint of in-group morality, complete with instructions for genocide, enslavement of out-groups, and world domination. But the Bible is not evil by virtue of its objectives or even its glorification of murder, cruelty, and rape . Many ancient works do that-The Iliad, the Icelandic Sagas, the tales of the ancient Syrians and the inscriptions of the ancient Mayans, for example. But no one is selling the Iliad as a foundation for morality. Therein lies the problem".
John Hartung.


Nice sig by the way.

[edit on 02/10/08 by karl 12]


reply posted on 7-6-2009 @ 10:53 AM by heyo
reply to post by visible_villain



You are assuming that when God created him, he remained the same. Lucifer's free will is what allowed him to glorify himself and fall away from God, imo. An intelligent being is not the same as say, a tree or a rock, in terms of the purpose of it's creation.


reply posted on 7-6-2009 @ 10:53 AM by Reading
Originally posted by heyo
Originally posted by contemplator
If there is a god, there is no entity more brutal and sadistic other than it's followers.


except for the one in your avatar.
can you name an organization that has done more good works, than christianity in it's various forms?
Your apparent kinship towards aliens and condescension is part and parcel the whole satan gig.


Can you name me one organization that has done more to kill/enslave/mentally imprison more people then christianity?



Hanged on June 10
Bridget Bishop, Salem

Hanged on July 19
Sarah Good, Salem Village

Rebecca Nurse, Salem Village

Susannah Martin, Amesbury

Elizabeth How, Ipswich

Sarah Wilds, Topsfield

Hanged on August 19
George Burroughs, Wells, Maine

John Proctor, Salem Village

John Willard, Salem Village

George Jacobs, Sr., Salem Town

Martha Carrier, Andover

September 19
Giles Corey, Salem Farms, pressed to death

Hanged on September 22
Martha Corey, Salem Farms

Mary Eastey, Topsfield

Alice Parker, Salem Town

Ann Pudeater, Salem Town

Margaret Scott, Rowley

Wilmott Reed, Marblehead

Samuel Wardwell, Andover

Mary Parker, Andover



Other accused witches that were not hanged, but died in prison:
Sarah Osborne, Salem Village

Roger Toothaker, Billerica

Lyndia Dustin, Reading

Ann Foster, Andover

Thirteen others may have also died in prison, but sources conflict on the exact number




That is just one portion of your 'interesting' peacefull history the list goes on since the fairytale was written.

Oh and bashing people who believe in alien's is pretty rich, At least they have some eye witness reports and picture/video evidence

How much evidence has christianity got? and im not talking about the book itself im talking proof on the scale of the UFO subject! # even the lockness monster has more evidence


reply posted on 7-6-2009 @ 10:57 AM by heyo
reply to post by LiveForever8



Is there any way you can prove, or at least give reason to, the claim that not all are invited to "the table", and that you are just one that is not invited? Since you're here, i'm assuming you can suspend your disbelief a little bit futher for the sake of conversation



reply posted on 7-6-2009 @ 11:01 AM by heyo
reply to post by Reading


the fruits of christianity are strong nations that are at peace within itself. There is no perfection in christianity, for no one is perfect, and i don't claim that, like you seem to think i do...or at least make others think i do.

....notice the pattern of declining church attendance and the turmoil within the minds of north americans.


edit: "a wicked generation asks for proof". that's aparaphrased statement by Jesus. The proof of God is self-evident within each individual's soul. Christianity is becoming less and less zombie-ish as more information comes to light.


[edit on 7-6-2009 by heyo]



reply posted on 7-6-2009 @ 11:02 AM by XXXN3O
Originally posted by LiveForever8
reply to post by XXXN3O


Well if it is god (small g) then i will never argue against it. After all, why are we here? How did we get here? Meaning of life? etc,etc...

But for someone to say they believe in the Biblical God (Jahweh) and present the Bible as fact is a load of nonsense. There is no proof. No hard evidence to back up its massive claims. Whereas there is massive evidence against the Bibles teachings.
More people should believe in science than religions, the world would be a better place.

I know it is different in America (especially in some areas) but where i am from it is thought of as ridiculous to believe in God. I actually dont know anyone who does!




I know where you are coming from.

No christian has all the answers as they are not creators are they?

I have saw all the things in my life that were needed for my eyes to be opened but that might be delusional speaking in if an athiest were to read this. I would say that just because other people do not believe in certain things should not prevent anyone else, thats living a lie to yourself.

If you are open minded and ever want an answer because nobody on this earth will give you the answer you need then all you have to do is ask. Thats a small leap for an answer but worth it.

I already know that you do not believe in God as I do but I can say that you will get an answer if you ask.

If experience ever challenges your own perception it would be illogical to deny it as lies would it not and that is why I changed my views.

[edit on 7-6-2009 by XXXN3O]


reply posted on 7-6-2009 @ 11:05 AM by heyo
reply to post by karl 12


so everyone who does not believe as george carlin believes is an idiot, got it. The george carlin defense reminds me of the chubakah defense, another "classic" in the discussion of religion.

edit: there are so many "givens" that must be allowed in order for carlin to be right. Ufo's and aliens aren't margianalized by this christian.
we're all looked at as kooks by those who can't hear, imho.



[edit on 7-6-2009 by heyo]


reply posted on 7-6-2009 @ 11:09 AM by LiveForever8
reply to post by heyo


Im sorry, i dont understand what you are asking me to do?


reply posted on 7-6-2009 @ 11:11 AM by XXXN3O
Originally posted by Reading
Originally posted by heyo
Originally posted by contemplator
If there is a god, there is no entity more brutal and sadistic other than it's followers.


except for the one in your avatar.
can you name an organization that has done more good works, than christianity in it's various forms?
Your apparent kinship towards aliens and condescension is part and parcel the whole satan gig.


Can you name me one organization that has done more to kill/enslave/mentally imprison more people then christianity?



Hanged on June 10
Bridget Bishop, Salem

Hanged on July 19
Sarah Good, Salem Village

Rebecca Nurse, Salem Village

Susannah Martin, Amesbury

Elizabeth How, Ipswich

Sarah Wilds, Topsfield

Hanged on August 19
George Burroughs, Wells, Maine

John Proctor, Salem Village

John Willard, Salem Village

George Jacobs, Sr., Salem Town

Martha Carrier, Andover

September 19
Giles Corey, Salem Farms, pressed to death

Hanged on September 22
Martha Corey, Salem Farms

Mary Eastey, Topsfield

Alice Parker, Salem Town

Ann Pudeater, Salem Town

Margaret Scott, Rowley

Wilmott Reed, Marblehead

Samuel Wardwell, Andover

Mary Parker, Andover



Other accused witches that were not hanged, but died in prison:
Sarah Osborne, Salem Village

Roger Toothaker, Billerica

Lyndia Dustin, Reading

Ann Foster, Andover

Thirteen others may have also died in prison, but sources conflict on the exact number




That is just one portion of your 'interesting' peacefull history the list goes on since the fairytale was written.

Oh and bashing people who believe in alien's is pretty rich, At least they have some eye witness reports and picture/video evidence

How much evidence has christianity got? and im not talking about the book itself im talking proof on the scale of the UFO subject! # even the lockness monster has more evidence


This coming from a you, who believes the human species is a virus that needs wiped out?

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Kinda contradictiory huh?

Hope you dont get near the "button" at any point.
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