I Could Tell You But Then You Would Have to be Destroyed by Me: The Pentagon’s Black World

reply to post by zorgon


Long story. Basically my "career" was aviation so when I wasn't out flying a mission, my time at home was... time at home. Fairly cushy in comparison to say, ground troops. From time to time though, we would be pushed to do more which would be slacked off on and leadership would give up lol. Well I got stuck at a desk job at the MCC. On paper, my role was to alert aircrews, plan missions, staff missions (usually done by schedulers beforehand), direct space shuttle alternate landings, take on tactical control of the squadron for emergency purposes, update unit locations worldwide, etc. In practice, I would sit for 12 hours lurking the internet and sporadically fill those tasks as needed. ATS, Wikileaks, and a few other sites were my favorite haunts. Reading up on everything I could find on Wikipedia by hopping links, to jumping into hollow Earth reptoids, to really anything that grabbed my attention. It was around this time, with the help of ATS and fellow airmen that I became disillusioned with my role in the military and decided I could no longer take part in it's horrific actions.

I made that statement about having an accident due to the fact that if anyone knows anything about what's going on, it's leadership. That goes without saying. At the same time, I held a certain clearance and was privy to certain information. I will not disclose any of it due to the fact that it would have immediate repercussions in the form of lost lives and imprisonment. Or possibly, that happy "accident." Truth be told, as I'm sure you may have heard from your source, is that most of this info is incredibly mundane but still vitally important. Seriously not worth speaking on by any measure.

I don't doubt for a second that NASA employees and others frequent this site, if for no other reason than they do what they do because they're interested in the same things we are. For all of ATS' members' failings, it is by far the most well kept, informative, and professional forum I've ever come across.

I have the same sort of connection as well. All I can say is I "know a guy" that works "somewhere" really cool. All I ever get out of that person, if anything, are nearly imperceptible expressions that tell me I'm asking the right questions. In fact, it was this very first indication that leads me to believe all UFO technology is ours. An inference I was later able to substantiate a little more through my own experiences and hope to share sometime.

reply to post by coyotepoet


Thank you. I absolutely understand people's reluctance to trust others who claim to be an authority on a subject. Even though I'm a newer official member, I've really been here for years. Not to mention my disappointment with Billy Meier and such. I understand how this works and I've been well studied on all sorts of topics presented on ATS as well as their respective typical scam artists. I guess I'll just try to establish a credible identity on here and go with that.

I'm very skeptical towards others as well and I think it's because I want so badly to believe. I need concrete evidence of things. Maybe I'm just trying to validate my childhood fantasies of alien worlds or something but I'll never stop pressing until I get the truth. It's sort of funny that I take this role online while in reality, I'm constantly pushing family, friends, and even strangers to accept certain things similar to topics found on here.

Originally posted by SpringHeeledJack
At the same time, I held a certain clearance and was privy to certain information. I will not disclose any of it due to the fact that it would have immediate repercussions in the form of lost lives and imprisonment. Or possibly, that happy "accident."

Yes this is a problem we have here. We get hints and clues of what is going on, but the skeptics scoff and demand proof. So to get that proof a true insider has to come to the table and show his card, then face the consequences you mentioned. End result... were not going to get the cold hard facts. Sometimes you even get some stuff... but when you read it you know instinctively that it would be a bad idea to post it.

Truth be told, as I'm sure you may have heard from your source, is that most of this info is incredibly mundane but still vitally important. Seriously not worth speaking on by any measure.

That much is true... I can plod through days of reports and find nothing exciting.. not like they are going to have the 'good stuff' on the public net anyway, and I don't have access to SiPRNET or JWICS . However after we had a 'visitor' from a certain alphabet club, my searches are more interesting... direct to the target. Type in Airborne Laser into google for example... see the results...

Well when I type in that search I get this as my first page...

I don't doubt for a second that NASA employees and others frequent this site, if for no other reason than they do what they do because they're interested in the same things we are. For all of ATS' members' failings, it is by far the most well kept, informative, and professional forum I've ever come across.

True that, but its not the same anymore. A lot of the good presenters are gone, and now that they made a deal with the DEVILS Google and Facebook we are getting swamped. Getting hard to find a good thread these days

I have the same sort of connection as well. All I can say is I "know a guy" that works "somewhere" really cool. All I ever get out of that person, if anything, are nearly imperceptible expressions that tell me I'm asking the right questions.

Well I can go a little further... one guy I know works at space command. His job as his wife puts it is 'paper shuffler'... Yeah... its his job to put the secrecy level on docs before sending them to the pentagon library. What he does sometimes is look over his wife's shoulder when we are talking 'stuff" and by his reactions we get some clues I started her about Oct 2006. Since then my email list is an amazing thing, but most of those contacts came from lurkers... the silent watchers that put the stars on posts A few times someone would register, make only one post ever like "You might be interested in..." and then poof never posts again

In fact, it was this very first indication that leads me to believe all UFO technology is ours. An inference I was later able to substantiate a little more through my own experiences and hope to share sometime.

Well my take on that from 30 years of 'snooping'..

80%ish are the 'critters', plasma energy critters that live in our atmosphere and LEO, they are not alien, they have always been here. (Foo fighters that plagued both sides in WWII are an example)

15% are ours, and I count all the triangles because they appeared at about the right time we had that tech

5% are the true visitors, who currently are not visiting though some are here 'in our service' I know this from direct contact reports from some very interesting people, though cannot post any proof

Denis Stoner, ex government investigator and director of MUFON Florida agrees on the critters, though her opinion is closer to 50%

Just wanted to express my appreciation for this thread.
This is the most compelling "real conspiracy" thread on ATS right now.

I wonder why all the NASA patches have to be so cartooney? Does anyone have a clue?

Sorry, I can't contribute with a patch.

Originally posted by JoeSignal
Just wanted to express my appreciation for this thread.
This is the most compelling "real conspiracy" thread on ATS right now.

I wonder why all the NASA patches have to be so cartooney? Does anyone have a clue?

Sorry, I can't contribute with a patch.

Thank you, and just hang in there,

Zorgon and I have plenty more patches to keep this thread going.

As soon as the therapy session is over, we can get back to posting them up

for everybody else. Thanks for being patient.

reply to post by burntheships


Get a shift on! This is the best post I've seen on ATS since I've joined




People need to understand its like evaluating an advert in a media lesson or something. There is a lot of hidden and contextual codes you need recognize in order to understand the image, and you cannot be right or wrong, as you will never know. Thats why its perfect for this forum, and it's perfect for people that are interested in these things (such as us) to have a look at and theorize.

If you've come here to tell us "none of this happens" then sure say it once, then move on, so we can also move on!

Cheers

Just to answer an earlier question from VraxUK and others, the wizard on the Special Projects Flight Test Squadron patch is not holding the "eye of Osiris." It is actually the Greek letter sigma in lower case, the engineering symbol for the RCS value in a radar cross-section equation. This symbol appears on a lot of patches related to to stealth aircraft and RCS testing.

For anyone who cares, Trevor Paglen did not just make up descriptions for patches in his book. He had some good sources. While his descriptions are not always perfect, they are mostly pretty accurate.

Originally posted by VraxUK


If you've come here to tell us "none of this happens" then sure say it once, then move on, so we can also move on!

Cheers

Yes, if only we had such intelligent conduct from all members. Thank you!

Now, back to the symbolism. One thing is certain, mission patches are the most honest descriptions we have of these secret missions. most of the patches were not intended for mass exposure, they are stripped of public relations sugar-coating. In that sense they are a rare insider’s look into the philosophy in the minds of those who create them.

Sorcerers controlling the earth, vipers surrounding the earth, angry dragons clutching the earth...
We keep in mind that there are connections to those secret societies who presumably are steeped in
thought concerned with Greek and Roman mythology.

And there are dozens if not hundreds of sources throughout this thread, and accessible on the interent
that are verified.

www.thespacestore.com...
history.nasa.gov...
en.wikipedia.org...
www.spacecenter.org...
boingboing.net...
www.life.com.../0
www.wired.com...
www.abemblem.com...
www.strategic-air-command.com...
www.qmmuseum.lee.army.mil...
www.vanguardmil.com...
www.thespacereview.com...
www.thespacereview.com...


www.nro.gov...

And yes, thats the official NRO website.

From the official NRO website ...

In 2010, the NRO kicked off its 50th Anniversary with an aggressive launch schedule of six satellites. The following is a photographic display of these launches, their corresponding "mission" patches, and the success banners created for each successful launch.

www.nro.gov...

Originally posted by Shadowhawk

For anyone who cares, Trevor Paglen did not just make up descriptions for patches in his book. He had some good sources. While his descriptions are not always perfect, they are mostly pretty accurate.

Shadowhawk,

Thank you, and yes, Paglen has very good sources, we have only one new member questioning.

If I may suggest, we take a vote here, with the members currently involved in the thread.
Simple vote, continue on as we have, on course and leave the debate behind.

I vote yes of course. Lets move on and continue. Anyone else?

Originally posted by zorgon

Originally posted by MasterGemini

Originally posted by jkrog08
I guess the real question here is what is behind the green door?

And the color green is VERY important i bet.

"Behind the Green Door"

Ah yes I remember that well... 1972 Marilyn Chambers... got a picture with her, but ermmm can't post it

And here in Vegas...

So what IS "Behind the Green Door"

Can't tell ya... there are children here

edit on 27-7-2011 by zorgon because: (no reason given)

Yes, you said it quite well.

Now on to my wild speculation about its possible implication as to the project the patch is for as it alludes to prostitution perhaps it may have something to do with Alien technology being sold to earth, or the alien-human hybrid theme.

The location of the star under the S hints at the connection to the binary stars of Sirius and the other location is in the Nevada, Arizona, New Mexico area which is known for top secret military projects and ufo sightings. Now I think that the alien looking cloaked character that is holding weapon could be a lot of things.

Also isn't green the color the represents lucifer or satan in magik?

Originally posted by JoeSignal
I wonder why all the NASA patches have to be so cartooney? Does anyone have a clue?

Because the people at NASA have not yet grown up

Take for example when they found those hematite nodules on Mars, a NASA 'scientist' was looking at his muffin and decided they looked like the blue berries in his muffin, so now NASA calls those spheres "Blue Berries" very scientific

Then NASA decides to blow up a comet....when the impactor hit the bulls eye, there was a secondary flash, a big one, that they could not explain and are sending a second craft out to see what happened. When they hit the target, this is the scene in the control room..




And when NASA decide it was a good idea to breed worms in outer space... they made this mission patch

reply to post by burntheships


Thank you for directing me to this treasure trove of information. I noticed that when I clicked onto the Ralph Nader link....then scrolled up to the top of the page and clicked on (home)....on the lower left hand side of his home page.....Ralph has many other books for us to read too. This will take me days and days...thanks again.

reply to post by zorgon


The result in Google you posted is dead-on. Really, for must of the stuff I know, that information is actually public in some form or another. Just looked over and forgotten. There is really only one thing that I never found anywhere and I'll never give it up. Again, it's really mundane knowledge but very critical to operations.

And hell, I'll try to one-up you since I have broken contact with that person... Skunk Works. Woot! But like I said, I never got any info from them in the least and actually never had any contact with anyone from there whatsoever. I made it all up. It's a lie.

From my experience, all I have seen is stuff that is 100% ours. I'll look into those plasma events though as the actual physical craft explanation certainly doesn't fit the bill. Also, I don't claim to have ever had an actual overview on everything UFO related so your numbers may very well be the case.

Other than what I see to be very reputable sources that have disclosed these things, I'm not inclined to believe aliens have visited us. Even accounting for the exponential nature of scientific understanding, it leaves much to be desired in the explanation of our incredible technological process this past century. I wouldn't dare rule out the possibility that we are being nudged forward. I'm also open to the possibility that Earth once teemed with advanced humn technology before we nearly wiped ourselves out and had to start over. But that's really another theory entirely...

At any rate, I look forward to "working" with you to find answers that satisfy our interests. Thanks for your response.


ETA: For certain things I happened upon during service which I am not bound to secrecy on... I consider those fair game. For what it's worth from another member you can't 100% verify... the black triangle craft is absolutely real. This is not speculation or assumption on my part. If nothing else, consider it another vote in favor of it's existence in the vast sea of eyewitnesses. It's real. Not a doubt in the world.

Originally posted by SpringHeeledJack
ETA: For certain things I happened upon during service which I am not bound to secrecy on... I consider those fair game. For what it's worth from another member you can't 100% verify... the black triangle craft is absolutely real. This is not speculation or assumption on my part. If nothing else, consider it another vote in favor of it's existence in the vast sea of eyewitnesses. It's real. Not a doubt in the world.

edit on 30-7-2011 by SpringHeeledJack because: additional content

Yes. About the technology. Do you have any insight about propulsion/control/weapon/defense technology which involves fundamental physics not known to _Physical Review Letters_, as opposed to sophisticated and advanced materials which nevertheless is derived from mainstream science?

Example of category (A) (advanced, but standard technology)
a) plasma control surfaces/aerodynamic modification/stealth
b) optical metamaterials for optical-frequency active stealth/cloaking
c) sonic boom suppression
d) active ECM

Example of category (B)
a) modification of fundamental inertial/gravitational relationships with non-mainstream physics
b) application of "dark matter/energy" or particles other than electrons, neutrons, protons or photons.
c) engineered gravitational radiation/geometrodynamics
d) something even more exotic

As a first cut, if understanding the tech requires deep knowledge of general relativity or relativistic particle physics and quotes Einstein or von Neumann's publications, that's (B).

reply to post by mbkennel


I have absolutely no idea. Not the slightest clue. All I can confirm is a craft that I observed. I won't even begin to speculate on it's technical specifications or it's occupants (whom I have no reason to believe were other than human). I did not work with these craft or have any role any any field even remotely related to the operation of such craft.

ETA: I was hasty in replying. From what I saw, it did not use a technology currently "mainstream" or open. It certainly did not use propellers and I saw no indication of it having traditional jet propulsion. I can't speculate on whether it used the idea of a jet mixed with other technology, like a jet 2.0 if you will, or antigravity capability. It moved very slowly from my perspective and due to the laws of aerodynamics, I don't think it's unreasonable to infer that it had the ability to hover.

As far as being stealth, it was of a sort of primered black color and being what it is, it almost certainly used stealth technology but from what I saw, it was no different from what we now use. I saw no indication of active camouflage or anything of the sort. Also, I can't rule out that it was this color simply as a means to keep it camouflaged, although standard procedure to mask aircraft now is to paint them gray.

Originally posted by zorgon

Originally posted by coyotepoet
In many ways the military is like freemasonry...

Well here is one patch that is real

and you don't need a lot of guess work to see the symbology

And yes that is an actual NRO mission patch

Let met guess. It is a surveillance satellite which went way way way way way way over budget but nevertheless the military contractors fed on the taxpayer like a wolfpack on a fresh hog.

But at least something went into orbit.

reply to post by caladonea


Serendipity, and your welcome!

Its an interesting site, and the webmaster there has joined us in this conversation,
and made some intersting contributions.

Originally posted by SpringHeeledJack
reply to post by mbkennel

 

I have absolutely no idea. Not the slightest clue. All I can confirm is a craft that I observed. I won't even begin to speculate on it's technical specifications or it's occupants (whom I have no reason to believe were other than human). I did not work with these craft or have any role any any field even remotely related to the operation of such craft.

ETA: I was hasty in replying. From what I saw, it did not use a technology currently "mainstream" or open. It certainly did not use propellers and I saw no indication of it having traditional jet propulsion. I can't speculate on whether it used the idea of a jet mixed with other technology, like a jet 2.0 if you will, or antigravity capability. It moved very slowly from my perspective and due to the laws of aerodynamics, I don't think it's unreasonable to infer that it had the ability to hover.

As far as being stealth, it was of a sort of primered black color and being what it is, it almost certainly used stealth technology but from what I saw, it was no different from what we now use. I saw no indication of active camouflage or anything of the sort. Also, I can't rule out that it was this color simply as a means to keep it camouflaged, although standard procedure to mask aircraft now is to paint them gray.

edit on 30-7-2011 by SpringHeeledJack because: additional info

This sounds like conventional technology to me. You didn't notice any truly odd optical effects (shimmering/cloaking/shining/aura/emission) consistent with either optical stealth or alteration of gravitational metric---you would have definitely noticed something. And you didn't see unusual propulsion characteristics.

The color scheme would be consistent with the mission & flight profile: dark for night-only or high altitude.

To me, it's the classic "stealth blimp", aka reduce buoyancy craft. Flies slow and dark. My guess is that the mission involves logistics or tactical surveillance for special forces.

reply to post by Shadowhawk


Thank you for that addition to the thread!

Originally posted by Shadowhawk
Just to answer an earlier question from VraxUK and others, the wizard on the Special Projects Flight Test Squadron patch is not holding the "eye of Osiris." It is actually the Greek letter sigma in lower case, the engineering symbol for the RCS value in a radar cross-section equation. This symbol appears on a lot of patches related to to stealth aircraft and RCS testing.

For anyone who cares, Trevor Paglen did not just make up descriptions for patches in his book. He had some good sources. While his descriptions are not always perfect, they are mostly pretty accurate.

Good timing to mention I have wanted to add that in an article in The New York Times,
Paglen mentions his background, his military connections, and also a family members
involvement in the military.

In an interview, Mr. Paglen said that remark revived memories of his childhood when his military family traveled the globe to bases often involved in secret missions. “I’d go out drinking with Special Forces guys,” he recalled. “I was 15, and they were 20, and they could never say where they where coming from or what they were doing. You were just around the stuff.” www.nytimes.com...

Paglen was influenced by the September 11, 2001 tragedy, as many of us were...and decided
to do something about it.

What sparked his interest, Mr. Paglen recalled, were Vice President Dick Cheney’s remarks as the Pentagon and World Trade Center smoldered. On “Meet the Press,” he said the nation would engage its “dark side” to find the attackers and justice. “We’ve got to spend time in the shadows,” Mr. Cheney said. “It’s going to be vital for us to use any means at our disposal, basically, to achieve our objective.”

Paglen goes on to expound....

Many patches show the Greek letter sigma, which Mr. Paglen identifies as a technical term for how well an object reflects radar waves, a crucial parameter in developing stealthy jets.

A patch from a Groom Lake unit shows the letter sigma with the “buster” slash running through it, as in the movie “Ghost Busters.” “Huge Deposit — No Return” reads its caption. Huge Deposit, Mr. Paglen writes, “indicates the bomb load deposited by the bomber on its target, while ‘No Return’ refers to the absence of a radar return, meaning the aircraft was undetectable to radar.”

Ok, so back to Shadowhawks post...

"This symbol appears on a lot of patches related to to stealth aircraft and RCS testing" ...

yes, very much so...and... it can also be used to denote jamming and electronic warfare.

reply to post by VraxUK


Thanks for being patient.
Ok, here is a fairly comprehensive coverage of the symbols in the patch.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/8214c40e0452.gif[/atsimg]

We have the Greek letter Sihma in lower case... σ ...

The sigma symbol in the wizard’s right hand is a reference to the
ideal radar signature of a stealth aircraft: zero.

I might have posted this in the thread...but will repost here. The sword at the bottom of the
image refers to a recently declassified Boeing stealth demonstrator known as the "Bird of Prey",
and the handle on the sword approximates the shape of this prototype.

www.cabinetmagazine.org...

In 2002 Boeings Bird of Prey was "uncovered after it was

"Here we have an example of a classic 'black' programme: an aircraft which has been built and flight tested for a number of years - and no one outside the programme knew about it," says Nick Cook, aerospace consultant to Janes Defence Weekly. Other highly classified aircraft that have ultimately been revealed included the U-2 and Blackbird spy planes and the B-2 stealth bomber. www.newscientist.com...

Bird of Prey has a wingspan of approximately 23 feet and a length of 47 feet, and weighs nearly 7,400 pounds. Powered by a Pratt & Whitney JT15D-5C turbofan engine, the Bird of Prey has an operational speed of 260 knots and a maximum operating altitude of 20,000 feet

boeing.com

The shape of the hilt on the Bird Of Prey patch matched exactly the aircraft's planform.

www.seattlepi.com...

The Bird of Prey plane is named after a Klingon spacecraft in "Star Trek." Photo: / The Boeing Co. / SL

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/4b04624c2b81.jpg[/atsimg]
www.seattlepi.com...

57th FIGHTER WING, DETACHMENT 2 & 3



[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/6cef2ab7351e.gif[/atsimg]

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/489c908ba655.gif[/atsimg]

According to official documents from the 57th Wing, which is based at Nellis Air Force Base in Las Vegas, Detachment 2 "operates off-location to support tactical development for the combat air forces."

DET 2, 57 FW (now DET 3, 53 TEG) has probably taken over much of the 4477th "Red Eagles" mission to provide tactical evaluation of foreign aircraft. Its "off-location" operating base is most likely Groom Lake (Area 51) or the Tonopah Test Range (Area 52).
Source

www.144fw.ang.af.mil...

www.miasnl.com...