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Christians, it is your responsibility

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posted on Jun, 6 2009 @ 10:22 PM
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This is from a pagan/Deist and Master Mason (raised baptist) point of view.

Just to get it started-Masons DO NOT EAT BABIES NOR DO WE SECRETLY RUN THE WORLD! Hell, our numbers are even falling. But i digress.

Jesus would go nuts at what the Church did in the early days and perverted his work into. He would REALLY have a fit at the "Cashtianity" thats going on. Remember the scene with him, a big stick, and the money changers?


Modern religious politics have further stripped the power from the "less leader-like". Christianity was never supposed to be about total submission. Jesus always seemed to be about " find the truth yourself". The whole "those with eyes, those with ears " thing was brilliant. The majority of the bible (other than for history) could have been tossed and the "red letters" kept. The best were the parables. Sages before and since couldn't have done better.

Peter and the early church politicized it all. Romans, go figure!

Jesus, constantly, was getting under the skin of the PTB. Stupid laws that contradicted common sense was always being challenged. Take for instance the situation that he helped the dude out of the hole (much allegory there) and he was chastised for "working" on the sabbath. Nonsense.

He was for personal defense when necessary-finish it but don't start it.

The fanatics really did a number on the religion- the whole "I've got it figured out! Follow me" bunch. Too many times in history to count.

The latest style of "pay your way to heaven" really gets my hackles up. The "God-plex" churches....Give me a break.

One of the most insidious things now is the rapture garbage. The "I'm outa here" bunch. This has led to apathy on a mental and physical level. "Why should I care, HE'S about to be here".

You REALLY think your part of the 144,000 huh? hmm. Pride before the fall.

This is, really, part and parcel of humanities different levels of evolution. Even in some pagan groups, the effects of inflated egos and personality worship flourish.

I've got my warts to. (no witch jokes please:lol
I'm not perfect BUT i do know my faults and try to fix them. Sometimes i do a good job, sometimes not.

The church just wasn't my thing. I submit to no one. I serve my maker and do my best to take care of my brothers and sisters (i dint ask religious affiliation first). One I DEFINITELY have no use for.

I wont go into that.

You want the Christians to "get it together" (or anyone else for that matter)? First they have to figure out what "IT" is.

The IT was Love, Wisdom, and Power. The three are not literal and yet they are. Meditate on that.

Konx Om Pax




posted on Jun, 6 2009 @ 11:45 PM
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You know all religion derives from pagan astrological symbolism right? so all your gods might as well be peter pan or darth vader. But reading and learning is overrated right? Oh wait, i guess if your only exsposed to certain books you might not have a very broad understanding of things, my bad. So i guess argue on for all eternity, go ahead.



posted on Jun, 7 2009 @ 12:05 AM
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Originally posted by nomorecruelty

Satan has been busy this last generation - you'll be hard pressed to find morals or ethics in today's world. He has worked through, and used, society to push his agenda as well. I thank God that He brought me in this world back when we actually said the Pledge of Allegiance first thing upon arriving at school, as well as the Lord's Prayer before we ate lunch, every single day.

Because I see now, looking at society and the people's mentality today, and I see how very easy it would've been for me to have fallen into the same "trap" that I see soooo many people today having fell into.

By 'trap" I mean the mentality that it's acceptable to question if there's a God, and to question why gay people can't marry, to question why stealing is wrong, or murder or other sins running rampant on the planet.

I just missed this generation - and I am extremely blessed to have missed it. Had I not, my eternal fate could be a whole lot different.




I agree with much of what you have stated above, but I am somewhat confused as to the "Gay Marriage" commentary. Are you stating that it's not correct to stand up for a Biblical view of Heterosexual Marriage, or that it is? I simply do not wish to misconstrue your words, but I am also not attempting to nitpick and perpetuate a somewhat tangent argument which takes away from your overall point.


As for the OP, and Christianity in general, I witness a wide ranging variety of Christians on a daily basis, which is a very similar factor amongst Jews and Muslims as well. WE ALL VARY. We all vary in our interpretations, and our fundamental beliefs which become exhibited throughout our faith and worship. Much of what and who we are, and much of what determines our Religious differences, all occurs due to the differing life events which we experience growing up, and which throughout our existence is constantly being reshaped and reformed.

I for one believe that every Monotheistic religion on Earth serves a dutiful purpose, as I believe that each and every one of our Prophets has served to spread the word of God to people which the previous Prophet/Messiah had not been able to reach (i.e., Jesus expanded the basis of Moses' teachings of God, on to over 1 Billion People, then Mohammad was able to extend the Message of God on to another additional 1 Billion inhabitants of Earth). Therefore, I do believe that each of these religions is attempting to attain the same goals of bettering individuals, and laying out a path before us towards Heaven, but we are simply going about such aspects through differing routes.

However, I will state flat out that I was surprised when a supposedly Christian neighbor of mine turned out to be the most Restricted child on the block, wherein his parents forbid him from Practicing Halloween, and even watching G.I. Joe, YET, he turned out to be the most violent kid on the block (Most likely as a result of such). He also came back to the neighborhood after a while as well, and began telling me about how Jews and Muslims were nice people, but they were all going to Hell because they did not believe that Jesus was God. I obviously completely disagreed with his view on the point of judging the other Judeo-Middle Eastern Religions in that manner, but as a fellow Christian I also disagreed with his view of Jesus. I was always taught that Jesus was the SON of God, and an Extension of God, but NOT that he was in fact God himself. At least that is what I took away from Church as a kid, but regardless, it did differ from his beliefs quite a bit.

On the other hand, I have Muslim friends who vary in their doctrines quite a bit amongst eachother, with some far stricter in their adherence than others. For the most part however, even when they travel back overseas to their home nations (Such as India, Pakistan, etc.), they are often shocked at what they witness over there. Their Americanized Islamic adherence, although seemingly strict in its nature, is FAR more tolerant than what their counterparts take part in overseas. It actually offends my friends and acquaintances when they witness Terrorists killing people in the "Name of God", and as Muslims, they feel betrayed by these despicable actions.

I will also note the amazing realization I have come across, in that the one time when Muslims, Jews, and Christians truly come together and unify beyond all else, is when they are facing down the likes of Atheists. It is often seen as one thing to follow and adhere to another Prophet/Messiah, and to preach somewhat different doctrines, but it is another issue entirely when someone is encountered who completely lacks any Faith and/or Religion whatsoever. So if Atheists wish to be so, then my advice to you is to keep it to yourselves, because each and everytime you push your views forward, you strengthen the Judeo-Christian/Islamic Unified Resistance. (Hey, maybe your actions WILL bring about World Peace after all).




posted on Jun, 7 2009 @ 12:09 AM
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To focus on the issue presented by the OP:

There are people who are doing exactly as you requested. I can think of two great ministries: People to People with Bob George at www.realanswers.net and the Bible Answer Man Ministries at www.equip.org. Both of these ministries focus on what is true and good about Christianity, and avoid the false teachings. Both are trying to straighten out the mess. Help them out by contributing.

Also, evangelism is a calling... one might say one of the gifts from God. Some are called to this, some are not. Generally, the calling to Christians by Jesus is "Occupy til I come." His apostles met and decided that the only things the non-Jew converts need to do is: "That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication: from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well." Acts 15:29 That's it. I would bet most are doing that.

I've found that most problems have to do with money. Christian churches that preach tithing are corrupt. Not even Jews pay tithing, and they invented it. When I'm in a church and they start either preaching tithing or building fund, I get the heck out. Last time I checked, Jesus did not want any buildings. One of the reasons the Jewish god survived is the fact that he could not be made into an idol that could be crushed to destroy the faith of his followers. He was easily transported --- in the heart. When the apostles wanted to make a tabernacle to Jesus after the transfiguration, His reply was to ignore it and tell them not to tell anyone about it: "And as they came down from the mountain, Jesus charged them, saying, Tell the vision to no man, until the Son of man be risen again from the dead." Matt 17:9
So much for the building fund. Jesus should be part of your daily bread, part of your guiding thoughts, not at a church. People can teach each other in homes. That's how it all started, until it was Romanized.



[edit on 7-6-2009 by Jim Scott]



posted on Jun, 7 2009 @ 12:51 PM
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reply to post by Jim Scott
 



I've found that most problems have to do with money. Christian churches that preach tithing are corrupt. Not even Jews pay tithing, and they invented it.

That's not true. Part of the Law, the basis of Judaism is tithing:

Leviticus 27.32:

And every tithe of herds and flocks, every tenth animal of all that pass under the herdsman's staff, shall be holy to the Lord.


Numbers 18.21:

To the Levites I have given every tithe in Israel for an inheritance, in return for their service that they do, their service in the tent of meeting...


Deuteronomy 12.6:

and there you shall bring your burnt offerings and your sacrifices, your tithes and the contribution that you present, your vow offerings, your freewill offerings, and the firstborn of your herd and of your flock.


Deuteronomy 14.22:

You shall tithe all the yield of your seed that comes from the field year by year.


Deuteronomy 26.12:

When you have finished paying all the tithe of your produce in the third year, which is the year of tithing, giving it to the Levite, the sojourner, the fatherless, and the widow, so that they may eat within your towns and be filled,


God even got mad that the Jews weren't tithing, likening it to robbing him, Malachi 3.8:

Will man rob God? Yet you are robbing me. But you say, ‘How have we robbed you?’ In your tithes and contributions.


The Jews were to do a tithe. Just because they didn't doesn't mean it's not there or not valid. Saying so would mean that since the Jews committed adultery, it's okay for us to do so today.

As for the church, it's true that we're not given a command to tithe. We are commanded to give to support the needy and the spreading of the Gospel. We're also commanded, according to Galatians 6.6 to support those who teach us.


One of the reasons the Jewish god survived is the fact that he could not be made into an idol that could be crushed to destroy the faith of his followers. He was easily transported --- in the heart.

You realize that the whole basis of Judaism was the Temple and the Sacrificial system, right? In the Jewish mind, they were separated from God. This was symbolized by the veil in the Temple. Which, was torn in two when Jesus died. This happened because it was after he died that a direct pathway to God was opened to man. Since Pentecost, the Holy Spirit indwells believers, who truly carry God with them everywhere they go.


So much for the building fund. Jesus should be part of your daily bread, part of your guiding thoughts, not at a church. People can teach each other in homes. That's how it all started, until it was Romanized.

People met in homes because Christianity was an illegal religion. Much like in China where the saints are forced under ground today.

There is nothing wrong with having a place to go and worship and receive teaching, like a church. As long as you don't think that building becomes more important than the teaching. Jesus hammered the Pharisees on this point. If a church decides that it needs to expand or build another building, there is nothing wrong with that either because a new/renovated building can open up many new doors to spreading the Gospel and spreading Christ throughout a community.


Also, evangelism is a calling... one might say one of the gifts from God.

Yes, there is a spiritual gift of evangelism. That doesn't mean that only those people are to evangelize. Jesus said the opposite in fact, Matthew 28.19:


Go therefore and make disciples of all nations


Jesus was talking to all his disciples who were present at this ascension. Not just those with the evangelistic gift. Paul also mentions that those who are diligent in soul winning, or evangelism, will receive a crown. This also points to it being the responsibility of all to evangelize. Christians aren't to be "occupiers" until Jesus comes. We should be spreading his Gospel. Besides, if you're really his disciple and believe in him, shouldn't you want to tell others so they can come to a saving knowledge to?

[edit on 6/7/2009 by octotom]

[edit on 6/7/2009 by octotom]



posted on Jun, 7 2009 @ 01:40 PM
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christians aren't susposed to judge who is the wheat or who is the tares....that's God's duty....

and well, they are to "be in the world not of it" and give unto ceaser what it ceaser's and unto God what is his....and well....they are commanded to be obedient to the worldly rulers. the key word....WORLDLY!! our government is of this world, it's made for the sinners, by the sinners, I think they are to recognize it's authority, do their best to obey it, give to the tax man what the tax man deems is due, but, I don't think they can make something as ungodly as a government into a tool for God! so, well, they know the kingdom that they serve is not of this earth and they are more like ambassadors than citizens of the place. and well, just like they let the dead bury the dead, they let the sinners rule the sinners....and just don't try to cause too many waves. no ambassador would go into another country and try to dictate to that country how it should run it's affairs, or at least they shouldn't. neither should the christians.

maybe this is why the real christians are kind of just sitting back, living their lives, and well, trying to quietly change things one person at a time instead of declaring war on all the sheep that are in wolves clothing?



posted on Jun, 7 2009 @ 01:48 PM
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reply to post by dawnstar
 



I don't think they can make something as ungodly as a government into a tool for God! ... no ambassador would go into another country and try to dictate to that country how it should run it's affairs, or at least they shouldn't. neither should the christians.

That is a very good point. I've been thinking along these lines myself lately.

I love that line about the ambassadors. I might have to steal that one for myself.

Star for you.



all the sheep that are in wolves clothing?

I think that you mean, "wolves in sheep's clothing". This is the point that I was trying to make in my first post. Those Christians that are really walking the walk and talking the talk are too busy living for God that they don't want to bother fighting the "wolves in sheep's clothing".

[edit on 6/7/2009 by octotom]



posted on Jun, 7 2009 @ 02:02 PM
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Originally posted by dawnstar
christians aren't susposed to judge who is the wheat or who is the tares....that's God's duty....

and well, they are to "be in the world not of it" and give unto ceaser what it ceaser's and unto God what is his....and well....they are commanded to be obedient to the worldly rulers. the key word....WORLDLY!! our government is of this world, it's made for the sinners, by the sinners, I think they are to recognize it's authority, do their best to obey it, give to the tax man what the tax man deems is due, but, I don't think they can make something as ungodly as a government into a tool for God! so, well, they know the kingdom that they serve is not of this earth and they are more like ambassadors than citizens of the place. and well, just like they let the dead bury the dead, they let the sinners rule the sinners....and just don't try to cause too many waves. no ambassador would go into another country and try to dictate to that country how it should run it's affairs, or at least they shouldn't. neither should the christians.

maybe this is why the real christians are kind of just sitting back, living their lives, and well, trying to quietly change things one person at a time instead of declaring war on all the sheep that are in wolves clothing?




PLEASE! DONT TAKE THIS AS A FLAME!

This is the sort of weakness that has been issued from the pulpit too long.
Sort of the "Romans 13" crap. See link. Peter and Paul were both nut cases!!!

If only John Paul the 2nd could have been the "rock". Oh well

www.pofci.org...

I agree with your being "in it but not of it" COMPLETELY! You are dead on correct.

BUT,

When you give total obeisance to the PTB, you not much better than chattle.

This is totally contradictory to what JC preached. Yeah, pay your taxes and garbage like that BUT, understand that you are NOT in their thrall!



posted on Jun, 7 2009 @ 04:09 PM
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Originally posted by dawnstar
christians aren't susposed to judge who is the wheat or who is the tares....that's God's duty....


Aren't Christians supposed to discipline and train their children? Aren't you supposed to bring them up 'in God'? I see speaking out against those who pervert your faith more in that light than I do the classical 'don't judge others'.


maybe this is why the real christians are kind of just sitting back, living their lives, and well, trying to quietly change things one person at a time instead of declaring war on all the sheep that are in wolves clothing?


This is probably true in a lot of cases. My request, though, is that the people that you quietly change one person at a time ARE the wolves in sheeps clothing. Seems like you can a much bigger bang for your conversion buck that way. Not to mention that it is the compassionate thing to do to protect your fellow sheep and potential new members of your flock.



posted on Jun, 7 2009 @ 04:12 PM
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reply to post by felonius
 

this is why I say to do your best.....
all the commandments from God can be summed up in one....
LOVE ONE ANOTHER! after all, you wouldn't steal from someone if you truly did love them, or commit adultery on them, or whatever, would you...
then the scripture goes on to say that there is no law against this....meaning, very, very seldom, will a government come up with a law that forbids you to act in love to another human being. there has been cases, and in those cases, well, many christians did go out on a limb and buck the gov't.

by love, I don't mean the kind of infatuation that causes two young kids to be stupid, get themselves pregnant, and then get married when they are total strangers, and I don't mean the doormat kind of love either. I am talking about love that is quick to forgiveness, always seeking wisdome from above, and always striving to do what is truly in the best interest of the other person. which, just might mean standing up and just saying no!

I am halfway convinced that part of my purpose for being here is to deal with those negative spirits out there and, well, there is nothing weak about this kind of love! in it's true form, well, those dark negative spirits will either become much less dark, or they may possibly meet the end of their existance!



posted on Jun, 7 2009 @ 04:13 PM
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reply to post by nowayreally
 


quote]Originally posted by nowayreally
reply to post by argentus
 


Amen brotha! pun intended. Its not up to us to make others believe. Their proof is right in front of their faces should they choose to see it.
I understand the OPs compassion toward what they believe is 'Christianity', but God needs us to utilize what we have been given and make our own judgment. If others are faltering and need some guidance then you know you are needed, but if not, hey...


Quite right. It's not up to "us" to make others believe..... It's not even up to "us" to make "us" believe. If someone adheres to a faith, it's something they feel a resonance with in their core. I have to say, at this point, if I were to choose a faith that was most in line with how I live my life, it would be Buddhism.

So, others here spit out the word "universalist" like it's a curse. I've said before that I think it likely that the Godhood or All That Is has spoken to many creatures and peoples in different languages. There is even some support of that in the Holy Bible.

what I feel, is that when people subscribe so closely to one particular dogma, and invest themselves and their energies into that dogma, they tend toward being exclusive of others. Sort of like: "I've chosen this. I've investigated, and declare that X is the best, the most true. I declare my alligience to X, and if you challenge it, you will not be my friend. If you don't agree with X, you will not be my friend."

It just seems so contrary, so judgemental to me. Who the hell knows, really knows, what is afoot in the realm of spirituality? The Is. Not me.


[edit on 7/6/09 by argentus]



posted on Jun, 7 2009 @ 04:21 PM
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As I read back through the thread, I saw that there was a discussion of New Age/Pagan/Satanists.

Reading it, I think it provides a near perfect example of what I want to see from Christians.

The assumption that Pagan=Satanist is very prevalent in the real world and especially among American Christians. It seems that everytime someone voices/posts that assumption, thoug, they are quickly challenged/educated/corrected that the two beliefs have nothing to do with each other. Heck, I don't subscribe to either faith and I correct people when I hear it.

Why don't I hear Christians do the same thing when somebody makes Christians=Fundamentalists? Why don't you even stand up for yourselves that much? I mean, Pagans have orders of magnitude less power to influence communities than Christians, but they have the courage to stand up and defend themselves.



posted on Jun, 7 2009 @ 04:33 PM
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reply to post by zefiro
 


I don't have a "flock"....left christianity a long time ago, couldn't take the wolves anymore. and well, from my experience in the church it seems to be the wolves who intent on removing what they deem as tares from the church.

if I plant a seed in my yard, there is no way I can sit out there protect that seed from all it's dangers, sooner or later, I just have to trust that the young seedling will be there tomorrow. I can help it along, try to nurture it, but in the end, it it up to the little seedling and God, fate, whatever as far as weather it grow or not.

before I left that church, it was like the church was coming apart at the seems. there were great debates on who was, or wasn't a christian, how a christian should dress, how they should be baptised, and on and on... what I call the name it and claim it philosophy had taken hold, and many were chasing their rainbows, claiming them in the name of God, and well, doing some pretty dumb things to get what they wanted. these weren't the newly converted, these were the leaders, the deacons, they were some of the ones that taught the sunday school, that stood on the pulpit and "taught" the ways of God. and all who just weren't buying it were pretty much torn down. I was already disenchanted with the mess when one night I had a dream, where one of these "name it and claim it", critical guys was on the pulpit giving a sermon. and, well, then he tranformed into a wolve in my dream. I left the church soon afterwards....

I think that the path to God is a two way street really, it can lead to heaven and good things, or it can lead straight to hell. but, it's a matter of a person's heart, what their true desires are, that will guide the person in the direction they want to go....
I cannot change the heart of another, only pray to God that he tries to change it and let them go on their happy marry way...






[edit on 7-6-2009 by dawnstar]



posted on Jun, 7 2009 @ 05:00 PM
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So, back to the OP. Why is it the responsibility of a few to "guide" the many? THAT's just what THEY try to do -- corral thoughts, herd ideas, always crafted to be acceptible to the local culture.


Argentus, misinterpreting my OP a bit. My premise is that Fundies are not Christians and that Christians have a responsibility to defend the weak, Christian or not, against the Fundies for the simple fact that Fundies claim to be Christian. I agree that Christianity can be worshiped in thousands of ways. Where do you draw the line though? To me, if a group claims to be Christian, but its teachings and practices are the opposite of Christ's, (dare I say it, Anti-Christ-ian.) how do you allow them to stay under your Christian umbrella? Ethically, morally or spiritually.


What if I were to make a thread like this...?

Premise:
1. Muslim extremists pervert the values of Mohammed.
2. The larger Islamic community bear a measure of responsibility for the suffering the extremists cause.


Mostlyspoons, exactly. Any religion is responsible for anyone using their name in ways which are harmful. The Jew thing is reaching a bit. If you would have said Judaism (a religion) rather than Jews (a race), then it would apply as well. Name your religion, my premise applies to them all.

Jim Scott, thanks for posting those two sites. Neither of them actually are doing. In fact, on the equiop.org site, i performed a search on 'fundamentalist' and pulled up an article which actually was defending fundamentalists as Christians.


When you give total obeisance to the PTB, you not much better than chattle.

This is totally contradictory to what JC preached.

Felonius, thank you.

JC wasn't a lightweight. He spoke, he disagreed, he definitely didn't have the 'live and let live' attitude towards those who misrepresented his Dad. Not sure why his sheep think that they should behave differently.



posted on Jun, 7 2009 @ 05:11 PM
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reply to post by zefiro
 


Fundamentalists can be Christian. All one needs to do is accept Christ as Savior to be Christian. But, the danger with them is that they're so caught up in the things that they do, not Jesus. That is where the rest of us need to talk to them and let them know that because I think it's okay to have drums in a worship service, that doesn't mean that I'm a heathen and going to hell.

I think that one must understand where fundamentalists are coming from. They're trying to honor their Savior. But, they're unchanging and feel threatened by the changes going on around them. Mostly because they're faith isn't as strong as some others, at least in my opinion.

Those "fundamentalists" though that doop people out of money, that's inexcusable. We know who those are.

I guess it can be said though, that just as Christians can be broken into different groups, so can fundamentalists. The fundamentalists that I know are appalled by the televangelists, but look at me weird for wearing shorts to church [which has to do with them trying to honor Jesus].



posted on Jun, 7 2009 @ 05:23 PM
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reply to post by octotom
 


many of those christians were quick to jump on the bandwagon to defend us torturing people, even heard some of the televangelists defending it.

the spiritual equilvalent to torture is a demonic tool!! there is no way that a christian can be involved in it without being a part of the demonic activity! this is why I am quick to point out, that these christians, at the least have been badly misled! at the most, the are wolves in sheep's clothing, trying to mislead them.

there is no way you can be doing God's work, and lend your support to such a practice, since this practice does a great deal to strengthen the power of the satanic forces.



posted on Jun, 7 2009 @ 07:00 PM
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reply to post by zefiro
 


I think what you're witnessing is truth without love. Jesus shared the truth, but he shared it with love and out of a love for humanity. He sacrificed His own life for humanity - that is truly love.

The more I grow as a Christian, the more I cringe with what I hear come out of some Christians' mouths. Though they can quote 1/2 the Bible from memory, they spew it from their mouths with a certain amount of disdain and hatred. The Bible says to hate the sin, and love the sinner, but too often they look like they hate both. Like I said, truth without love.

Now, you can also have the opposite extreme. All love with no truth. That is unbiblical as well. Jesus did not water down the gospel. Think about the woman at the well. He flat out told her that she was sinning by shacking up with her boyfriend, but he showed her love as well. He didn't tell her that she was living in sin to humiliate her or to make himself feel like a better person than her. Motive is everything. When love for the person is the motive, I think it's okay to share the truth. But if you can't share God's Word without also sharing God's love, then it is better that you not share His Word.

I do see a lot of hypocrisy in American Christians. For example, saying, "I'm prolife" but also being for the death penalty, is hypocritical. And how can a Christian justify torture or the killing of innocents in Iraq, Afganistan, etc, as a tradeoff for maybe preventing the deaths of some Americans? It can't be justified. I dare say that God doesn't like it.

Bottom line - Christians need to walk in truth and love, not just one or the other.



posted on Jun, 7 2009 @ 07:21 PM
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reply to post by octotom
 


Love Chuck Missler's Bible studies! Have you listened to any of these guys regarding the UFO phenomenon: Mike Heiser, Guy Malone, Jim Wilhelmsen, Joe Jordan, Lynn Marzuli, and David Flynn?



posted on Jun, 8 2009 @ 06:43 AM
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reply to post by derekcollins79
 



Love Chuck Missler's Bible studies! Have you listened to any of these guys regarding the UFO phenomenon: Mike Heiser, Guy Malone, Jim Wilhelmsen, Joe Jordan, Lynn Marzuli, and David Flynn?


Missler is the greatest, no matter what his nay sayers say! I haven't looked into the UFO studies by these other men. I have though read a book by David Flynn called Temple at the Center of Time. At the very least, it's thought provoking.

Is the Joe Jordan that you mention the former head of Word of Life Fellowship? If so, that's really funny. He was the Chancellor of the college that I went to, The Word of Life Bible Institute. I'll definitely have to look into what he was to say about UFOs. I'll have to admit too that I never thought that I'd see his name mentioned on the boards of ATS! Too funny.

Another guy that has an interesting take on the UFO phenomena is Jimmy DeYoung.



posted on Jun, 8 2009 @ 06:54 AM
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reply to post by Ron Paul Girl
 



For example, saying, "I'm prolife" but also being for the death penalty, is hypocritical.


It's not hypocritical. Killing a baby through abortion is killing an innocent life--something that all Christians are against [for the most part]. God commanded us [via the established authorities] to execute murderers. Genesis 9.5-6 (NLT):


And I will require the blood of anyone who takes another person’s life. If a wild animal kills a person, it must die. And anyone who murders a fellow human must die. 6 If anyone takes a human life, that person’s life will also be taken by human hands. For God made human beings in his own image.


By killing someone, you're essentially forfeiting your life. It's the principle of talion, or life for life. God created man in his own image and murdering a human is murdering what is most like God and is an attack on God himself.

In any event, don't kill anyone, it's not good. But, if someone does kill someone, I'm going to err on the side of God. After all, this command predates the law, so it wasn't fulfilled in Christ and therefore, we're not free from it.




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