Christians, it is your responsibility

Premise:

1. Christian fundamentalists pervert the values of Christ.
2. The larger Christian community bear a measure of responsibility for the suffering the fundamentalists cause.

I'm not going to go into quoting scriptures (unless necessary) because the ATS community has heard it all before. The message of Christ was love expressed in compassion for weak and meek. Understanding, forgiveness, healing. The dismissal of wealth as a value. Prince of peace. Resurrection instead of murder. Redemption.

Fundamentalists value obediance, strict moral codes, punishment of non-believers disguised as compassion, killing is acceptable when threatened, redemption only through thier moral structure.

Christians, it is your God, your Christ that fundamentalists are claiming. Politicians are using Christian beliefs to push war and the accumulation of wealth to the few. They are using the name of Christ to push policy to strand the weak and meek for the benefit of the powerful.

When. . .WHEN are you going to step up and defend Christ, God and the rest of us from these perversions of your faith? When are you going to start defending the poor souls that get seduced by these people?

The simple fact is that you are in the best position to protect us. You have the authority to question these people on religious grounds. You have the power to protect the vulnerable. You have the numbers to reject those who falsely claim your faith.

My question is. . .why don't you? Do you hesitate for the simple reason that they call themselves Christian?

So, I am implying that you real followers of Christ share the blame every time a law is passed that sacrifices the weak to wealth. You share the blame for every live sacrificed to Fundamentalist hate. You share the blame for the suffering of all those people seduced by these faiths

Your silence is your guilt.

Show me how I am wrong. Seriously.

It is interesting how the radical, conservative Christians are considered to be the "best" Christians and "right". They profess it from the roof tops, yet the "good" Christians that practice love and not judging others, are silent. The extremists are overbearing, which is why other voices get silienced, but I wonder what would happen if the "real" Christians that practice self-improvement and loving your neighbor would be equally overbearing, would be interesting.

I was asking my sister why a Christian fanatic is always viewed rather poorly, the thought of a strict, moralistic jerk comes to mind. But how come someone couldn't be a Christian fanatic that loves God and others with all their being. It seems like to delve deep into a "blaming" Christians is more common and acceptable than a Christian that simply follows the uplifting word of Jesus in the New Testament.

I think a good Christian is someone who works on themselves, and doesn't judge others. It seems some Christians believe they are entirely holy, and everyone else are sinners, which is completely backwards and to be honest, you aren't going to "get done" what you need to get done here on earth. Self-improvement is key, and if you don't improve yourself and condemn others, well that is not good.

You can tell by the eery silence of these post that are absence there is a ton of guilt.

You can't obey some laws and oppose the others, believe in it fully or believe nothing of it is my opinion.

If I was a christian now, I would've never had sex before marriage, never would've told a lie, even a white lie, wouldn't of ever ingested somethings. I would of done alot less in life, but I do rebuke it, and it's in writing here!

I do believe in moderation though, and thats not from a god being.

I do think though, and belive strongly if your going to be a christian be the best on you can be don't half a$$ it, it says in the bible not too.

Time to stand up guys and gals, and say you have obeyed the bible in its entireity and held strongfast to it in opposition to satan, without claiming, well I'll pray and he'll forgive me, cause if you know its wrong and do it anyways there is no forgiveness and you know I know it, and you know I know that you know it, and your supposed almighty knows it!

No paradox there.

reply to post by zefiro


I agree 100% with what you say but there are only a handful of us and we are constantly doing missionary work in all four corners of the globe. We can get angry with these so called "fake Christian Politicians" and do our best to tear them down, but the Government has the rest of the nation in the palm of its hand. People are already against us. They will not necessarily listen to what we say "all in the name of God" because they may think we are trying to get "power" and corrupt as the next individual. As an Ambassador of Christ it is my job to spread the word of my God and teach love. That's the only thing we can give to this planet. Speaking out against the "Evil World Politicians" are all too common in today's society and many of those people don't believe in God to begin with. We are trying our best to bring love into this world and you say we need to stand up. My friend, we have been and we always be and in the end, we will triumph. Remember, assuming you are a Christian, God is on our side. God Bless!

[edit on 6-6-2009 by Water-tastes-good]

[edit on 6-6-2009 by Water-tastes-good]

I'm not sure who started the rumor that Christians were "responsible" for the world -

Or the rumor that Christians are all without fault or sin. Christians are human, just like everyone else on the planet. We struggle with the same issues that everyone else does.

The Bible is out there for anyone/everyone to read and study. Some choose to, some choose not to. It isn't my place, nor any other Christian, to take a poll every year to see who is reading and who isn't.

I can encourage you to read and study - but ultimately, each person is the captain of his/her own fate.

If you read the Bible, you will understand that what's going on in today's world has been predicted, and day by day prophecy is being fulfilled. I think even the most hardcore atheist would have to agree that we are now beyond mere 'coincidence' on these things.

I can give you a heads up though, from a Christian point of view. God will not allow anyone to "understand" his Bible unless that person is truly seeking Him. Believe it or not, He can, and has trust me, blocked a person's understanding of the Bible - if He knows they aren't ready to understand, or accept what is written, that person can read all day long and wont' gain any insight.

As these end days continue, all of what's going on out in the world IS going to only get worse. The false prophets, as the OP spoke of, are out there and are only going to increase in numbers. That is satan working through mankind - it has nothing to do with God or Jesus.

The biblical plan is, this is God's planet, God's universe - in the end, He will take all of the believers with Him - but satan is working through 'man' to steer as many souls as he can away from God. As we get closer to the finale, the Bible says that even the 'very elect' will be deceived.

People say "Oh, doomsday talk, we've heard it all before". Guess what? So have I. I have brushed off hundreds of "doomsday" prophets with their predictions. Why? Because their views didn't coincide with what the Bible says. And now, today, there aren't any dates being set, unless you count the 2012 issue - and that is only part of the "end". But things are much different today - Christians and alot of non Christians agree that things seem to be heating up.

Preachers used to preach about the end days but it was done in a 'someday' way. Today, most ALL of them are now talking about it in the present.

Satan has been busy this last generation - you'll be hard pressed to find morals or ethics in today's world. He has worked through, and used, society to push his agenda as well. I thank God that He brought me in this world back when we actually said the Pledge of Allegiance first thing upon arriving at school, as well as the Lord's Prayer before we ate lunch, every single day.
Because I see now, looking at society and the people's mentality today, and I see how very easy it would've been for me to have fallen into the same "trap" that I see soooo many people today having fell into. By 'trap" I mean the mentality that it's acceptable to question if there's a God, and to question why gay people can't marry, to question why stealing is wrong, or murder or other sins running rampant on the planet.

I just missed this generation - and I am extremely blessed to have missed it. Had I not, my eternal fate could be a whole lot different.

reply to post by nomorecruelty


Well said. God Bless!!!!

reply to post by Water-tastes-good

I agree 100% with what you say but there are only a handful of us and we are constantly doing missionary work in all four corners of the globe.

Why are you doing missionary work in all four corners of the globe, when it seems you're most needed work is at home? Besides, most of the people on mission now days are just on extended vacation. Christians rarely go where it's dangerous for Christians. They go to hot vacation spots like Antigua Guatemala and Roatan Honduras where thousands before them have already gone and there are plenty who already know God and live in the area to bang on doors and push the bible.

My sister-in-law is a "good Christian" who goes on a few missions a year to great spots like I mentioned above but she won't go preach to the people who really want to learn about God in areas where Christians are raped or burned. Where's her faith that God will protect her when she won't go to those places?

I think most Christians are all the same -Sorry.

There are so many "religions" out there today - again, "mankind" is responsible for creating them. Just as mankind created Dems and Repubs, the b/w racial issue, .... Baptist, Methodist, Catholic, etc.

But so many people want to blame God for all the different "beliefs" - it isn't His fault - it's our forefather's fault, and our fault as well for allowing the nonsense to continue.

In the beginning, it was God's laws - that's it.

And in the end, it will be God's laws.

The bottom line, regardless of which "religion" or "non" religion you have chosen to cling to - it will come down to who it is you choose to serve. God or satan.

And before anyone says "What makes you think your "religion" is the right one above the others?".

It isn't 'religion' - it's beliefs. And God's laws were here when He created the planet. AFTER He put the laws down, was when "mankind" decided to change things, and add things, and take things out, and basically, screw things up - again.

Vanity and pride are what brought Rome down. Take a look around you - that is the exact same thing that is bringing this world down now.

As these end days get deeper, things are going to get much worse - you can look at it that God is giving people chance after chance after chance to repent and come back to Him - that is why things are getting worse. He knows that pain and suffering is what makes people seek Him for comfort and/or salvation.

Please remember though, He won't extend His gracious hand forever. That "last" day will come - regardless of what you believe, or don't believe.

The best place to start is by picking up His Bible - the King James Bible - not any of the "versions" that have been created, and rewritten, by "mankind".

Why is it so important to read the original? Because there are hundreds of books out there that claim to be the "Holy Book" - when in truth, they are only words that man has taken from the original, twisted the words a bit to suit mankind's current agenda.
There is even "The Gay/Lesbian "Bible" out there on the market as well.

That should be a huge red flag. Anyone with an agenda to try to pass off on society has written/rewritten the Bible.

Just be very careful of what you do read - if it isn't the gospel truth as God had His prophets write, then you are probably only getting brainwashed with someone else's agenda.

Christians are to blame for not standing up to those in power and the rest are free from any responsibility.

This thread will be nothing but a bunch of people bashing christians with a few, like those posted above me, giving a rational post proving the OP wrong.

Nontheless it will probably turn into a 15 page bashing.

Oh and great post by the way. Questions that should be asked everyday.
Why don't any of these Christians stand up for Jesus and peace and good?
My guess is because most of them are to busy working for a bigger TV or newer car - I think they call it greed.

S&F for you!

reply to post by Sundancer



God also gave humans common sense - you can have faith in God but you wouldn't intentionally step out in front of a Mack truck now would you?



Have you not watched those two guys on tv that are missionaries and they go to some really off the wall places over in Africa and places like that. They get shot at, threatened, they have to sneak around and hide alot - I admire them for doing that.

Would I do it?

No, nadda and nevahhhh.

I have faith but I also have common sense.

reply to post by nomorecruelty



I'm confused I thought you were suposed to put your life into the hands of God, that he knows what is best and will always protect you? I guess this is only the case until your common sense tells you oterwise?

Sundancer, there 'are' people out there that "claim" to be Christians that are only out for money and work to deceive people out of every penny they can.

Benny Hinn, Mike Murdoch, and a few others come to mind.

But to take the bad apples and toss the good ones in with that .....

It would be the same if I, as a Christian, watch the local news and after seeing all of the crime committed, assume that all 'non Christians" are just looking for their next crime to commit.

That wouldn't be accurate, or fair, now would it.

There are really good preachers out there - they all have different areas of topic - so I watch them all to gain insight on all of the topics.

Charles Stanley - you won't find a better man, or preacher than him. Honest as they day is long, committed to God, and truly interested in people's salvation, not their wallets. His ministry is intouch.org

John Hagee - same with him - a very good preacher who knows a great deal about prophecy.

Perry Stone - this man KNOWS prophecy - you can youtube him if you want to listen to some of his teachings. He gets so excited when he's talking he can't get his words out fast enough. (lol)

And the always excellent, Billy Graham - his name speaks for his rep.

My point being, Sundancer, please don't lump all people that 'claim' to be Christians, into a pile. There are good Christians, and bad ones - providing they are Christians to begin with.

reply to post by Sundancer


Remember, God will not be mocked. If you try to make a point using God and faith, when it's only to try to prove Him wrong, that could be extremely dangerous.

God wants people to have faith - but He isn't going to be ridiculed.

If you step in front of a Mack truck, you'll probably get flattened. Faith has nothing to do with stupidity.

But if you are unemployed, on your last loaf of bread and jelly, and have about 5 bucks to your name - and in your heart you TRULY have faith that God will provide what you need - then I think He will.
In fact, I know He will. I've been there before. lol

Bottom line I guess? God isn't a magic man that people can run to in order to try to prove Him wrong.

nomorecruelty

That wouldn't be accurate or fair at all being that the vast majority of people in prison are Christian. I wasn't speaking about the preachers anyway, I was speaking of the average Joe Christian.

My heads pounding from all that bible thumping and zealotry. Has anyone got an aspirin?

Can the Op answer this simple question... Who are you to tell anybody how to live or how they should express themselves as Christians? What right do you believe you have? Just a bit egotistical maybe?

Shame! Shame! Shame!

What's that saying again?... Oh yeah...

Don't judge lest you be judged!

IRM

reply to post by nomorecruelty


There's a huge difference between walking in front of a Mack truck and going to dangerous places to preach Gods word while having faith he will protect you. You can't see that?

The average "Joe Christian" though is also a human. And humans are born into sin - and God knows we all live in sin every day in society, and home.

It sounds like you, maybe, are wanting to use the bad Christians as a reason for your distance from/with God? Just an observation -

I was a CO in a state prison for three years - I can tell you that the majority of inmates come in prison as non Christians. But true enough, after they have "still/down" time to think, reflect, and regret ...... alot of them do get right with God.

And then when they get out, they go right back to the streets and re offend. Usually. Not all but most do.

Satan used to be an angel - but he chose to go against God so he was thrown out of Heaven. And he knows his fate, and knows his time is short - so he is working hard to gain as many souls as he can before Jesus returns. After that, he will be drop kicked to hell for eternity. But he can also, and does, appear to people as an angel of light - meaning, he can fool people into thinking that something/someone is good when in fact, they are as evil as he is. That is how he operates. That is why it's so very important for people to stay close to the Bible, and God's true scriptures. In today's world, we need all the protection we can get.

God calls people for different reasons - it would probably be safe to say that God has probably called your sister to a different area - where you might think it's not as 'dangerous' as it should be, God knows she is exactly where she needs to be.

If everyone was called to the 'dangerous' areas, who would help the non dangerous areas?

Society has brainwashed people into believing that Christians are supposed to be these perfect 'Stepford" humans that are without fault or sin.

Christians struggle in today's world with sins just as any other person.

Once you are saved, and thus become a Christian, satan will attack you like you've never been attacked before in your life. He does it to try to get you to denounce God and come back to the 'dark' side. I.e. he wants to carry you with him into the gates of hell.

But as far as different callings, I do a lot of animal welfare work - and non animal people always say the same oldddd tired line ....... "Why aren't you out there advocating for cancer or abortions or...... "

Again - there are people out there that were called to advocate for cancer, and abortions and other issues. While I'm extremely compassionate about cancer, and abortions, it isn't my calling. My heart is in working for/with the animals.

What a boring, boring world this would be if everyone was a clone of the next person - all liking the same things, all advocating for the exact same things...... that isn't what a "society" is supposed to be like.

Sundancer, your sister is where God wants her - have you thought about where your calling might be ?