Istanbul UFO is Back **May 2009** Video

reply to post by FlySolo


Not sure how I missed this reply, excuse my delay, I was trying to find another pseudo intellect skeptic badge to put on my hat

What you're forgetting with the hazy shot of some island you provided, is that our cameraman had a telescopic lens fitted to his camera.

Making your example invalid.

You're also basing your denial of the possibility of a domed building near Esenkoy from what? Two computer generated images from google earth?

Pseudo intellect indeed!


[edit on 19/6/09 by Chadwickus]

Originally posted by Chadwickus
You're also basing your denial of the possibility of a domed building near Esenkoy from what? Two computer generated images from google earth?

Pseudo intellect indeed!


[edit on 19/6/09 by Chadwickus]

The thing here is that the man who made this video has attested its authenticity. IF you or anyone else calls it a fake, you then have an obligation to show us how it is so.

Simply suggesting possibilities that the video could have more mundane explanations than being an extra-terrestial craft is all fine, but it settles nothing. You can always assume that something could be something else. If you want to show that it is so, then you should find the building or the oil rig in question with the lights above, you should work out the distances and the angles, then wrap it all up in order to convince us that this is the most likely explanation.

FlySolo has tried to show that the oil rig/building possibility is unlikely, you haven't shown that it has any foundation to it, based on facts.

In court, when accused, you're still innocent until proven guilty. There's no reason whatsoever why UFO videos should be considered fake until proven authentic.

Let me give you an example of bad debunking in this thread.

Phage brings along the theory of superior mirage - a perfectly natural phenomenon that explains how lights on the water surface - in some rare conditions - seems to hover in the air, and from there he creates the theory that the four perfectly aligned lights in the air are actually lights from fishing boats or such below.

When asked what the metallic looking craft in the night time shots are he concludes that it's a model, in effect a fake.

He doesn't seem to consider that the nighttime shots and the daytime shots show the same thing, because if he did, how can it be a model at nighttime, then a natural phenomenon in the daytime?

nighttime
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/76b28c06bc66.png[/atsimg]

nighttime (borrowed from the 2008 video, sorry)


daytime (apparently the same fishing boats creating the same light constellation-mirage in the same position as in the 2008 video)
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/33424fb58f78.png[/atsimg]


I think we easily forget that if some of these UFO videos posted here on ATS and elsewhere actually shows the presence of some kind of alien intelligence, then they are - undisputedly - the most important documents ever made in the history of mankind.

And if so, they merit respect instead of ridicule, and some SERIOUS study and investigation.

ATS's favorite two top alien stars! I can't wait to see them in there next thrilling episode! I wish the would moon the camera! Come on boys your public awaits.

[edit on 19-6-2009 by MOTT the HOOPLE]

That's a good theory but if UFOs are just sitting in airspace and cloaked why don't we see birds or planes running into them?

Maybe the Air France Plane which recently went down was hit by a UFO!!!!

OP.... I've gotta say that the middle footage looks the most authentic as you can clearly see and hear the water but the first video and last are a little suspect as you can't see any stars... why are there never any stars in these videos? Sounds like he is on a computer using a mouse and just added the sound of waves on the shore... i would like to really believe it is authentic but until i see one myself i'm going to remain skeptical but open-minded!

Originally posted by Heliocentric

The thing here is that the man who made this video has attested its authenticity. IF you or anyone else calls it a fake, you then have an obligation to show us how it is so.

from what I read the authenticity meant it wasn't manipulated after the fact, meaning no CGI, what's being filmed still can be faked

Simply suggesting possibilities that the video could have more mundane explanations than being an extra-terrestial craft is all fine, but it settles nothing. You can always assume that something could be something else. If you want to show that it is so, then you should find the building or the oil rig in question with the lights above, you should work out the distances and the angles, then wrap it all up in order to convince us that this is the most likely explanation.

We're all here discussing our theories on what it could be, I tend to start at the more mundane theories and work from there.
Unfortunately all I have to work with is what is available online, so it makes it difficult to prove my theories. Remember, these are just my thoughts, which I am sharing on a public forum.

FlySolo has tried to show that the oil rig/building possibility is unlikely, you haven't shown that it has any foundation to it, based on facts.

In court, when accused, you're still innocent until proven guilty. There's no reason whatsoever why UFO videos should be considered fake until proven authentic.

The problem here is that this isn't a court of law and what's been presented has no facts either except that only one guy can film it and it hasn't been altered by CGI.

The other problem is that the object that has been filmed (the one with the supposed aliens visible), has been filmed by one person over the span of several years and whenever it's been filmed it looks exactly the same every time.

THIS sets off huge alarm bells for me, therefore there must be a mundane explanation.

Let me give you an example of bad debunking in this thread.

Phage brings along the theory of superior mirage - a perfectly natural phenomenon that explains how lights on the water surface - in some rare conditions - seems to hover in the air, and from there he creates the theory that the four perfectly aligned lights in the air are actually lights from fishing boats or such below.

When asked what the metallic looking craft in the night time shots are he concludes that it's a model, in effect a fake.

He doesn't seem to consider that the nighttime shots and the daytime shots show the same thing, because if he did, how can it be a model at nighttime, then a natural phenomenon in the daytime?

nighttime
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/76b28c06bc66.png[/atsimg]

nighttime (borrowed from the 2008 video, sorry)

daytime (apparently the same fishing boats creating the same light constellation-mirage in the same position as in the 2008 video)
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/33424fb58f78.png[/atsimg]

I too believe that we're seeing two completely different objects so I disagree that it is a poor effort at "debunking".

One thing that comes to mind regarding this is the dog we see barking at the lights is heard earlier on barking whilst the object with the aliens on board is being filmed. It sounds like it's being recorded inside.

I think we easily forget that if some of these UFO videos posted here on ATS and elsewhere actually shows the presence of some kind of alien intelligence, then they are - undisputedly - the most important documents ever made in the history of mankind.

And if so, they merit respect instead of ridicule, and some SERIOUS study and investigation.

I think that you're forgetting that for every possible credible video we see on ATS there is dozens that are not.

Chadwickus... well spotted.... i didn't think about what you said about the videos coming from the same guy.... over 7 years you say.... how come no one else has been the spot and recorded these ships? (cough, cough)

Man this video really gets a 10/10. Best footage Ive ever seen by far. Very very cool if those are in fact alien guys in the ship. What kills me is the level of disbelief from skeptics. First they say "wheres the proof? I want pictures." When the pictures and videos are presented to them they say "Oh that's too blury and the cameraman is faking it." What do skeptics need? An alien to knock on their door with a 6 pack and a gram of blow to party with? Seems to me that no matter what kind of evidence appears that the skeptics will always shoot down the alien theory because they simply do not choose to believe. Theyre actually worse than the ufo freaks "who just know". At least the ufo freaks have vids like this one to back a claim. Skeptics have nothing but their blurry photo excuse and "oh it's a lighthouse excuse"
Don't ask for evidence if you're going to shoot it down prior to viewing it. Lets Go Mets

Originally posted by spinalremain
Man this video really gets a 10/10. Best footage Ive ever seen by far. Very very cool if those are in fact alien guys in the ship. What kills me is the level of disbelief from skeptics. First they say "wheres the proof? I want pictures." When the pictures and videos are presented to them they say "Oh that's too blury and the cameraman is faking it." What do skeptics need? An alien to knock on their door with a 6 pack and a gram of blow to party with? Seems to me that no matter what kind of evidence appears that the skeptics will always shoot down the alien theory because they simply do not choose to believe. Theyre actually worse than the ufo freaks "who just know". At least the ufo freaks have vids like this one to back a claim. Skeptics have nothing but their blurry photo excuse and "oh it's a lighthouse excuse"
Don't ask for evidence if you're going to shoot it down prior to viewing it. Lets Go Mets

Ok, although there is some credibility in the videos and to your post i am skeptical but only because i have not seen a UFO myself however i have experienced some strange phenomena since 2000 and will post about it when i can.... only just joined so can't start a topic or post until i've replied to 20 posts already here..... anyway if you look at it logically why has no-one else ever filmed these craft? This guy has been filming them for some time apparently.... and i did say that the second video (daytime) looked authentic enough

Originally posted by spinalremain
Very very cool if those are in fact alien guys in the ship. What kills me is the level of disbelief from skeptics. First they say "wheres the proof? I want pictures." When the pictures and videos are presented to them they say "Oh that's too blury and the cameraman is faking it." What do skeptics need?

What do skeptics need?
Convincing answers! If no answers=disbelief! Simple equation.
___________________________________________________

BTW even if those alleged aliens would have waved and gesticullated I still would ask myself if it's CGI or not.
___________________________________________________


Some of those so-called believers around here have the air of religious fanatics.
So many of us are more than ready to believe but the evidence has to be convincing which in my opinion isn’t. There are simply too many unanswered questions. One must be allowed to articulate these without being attacked.
I read the thread about the Kumburgaz case at siriusufo.org and must say that the tone against any kind of scepticism is really harsh and aggressive. Some even suggested splitting the thread in “believers” and “non-believers” what kind of intellectual exchange is that???

reply to post by necati


Im not saying the vid is authentic. Im saying if it is then its astounding evidence. Is it not? With the thousands and thousands of cases reported isn't it fair to assume that it's more likely that we are being visited by something than not? What k nd of evidence would suffice? Im confused about that. Any photo can be called a hoax, and any video can be called manipulated. Im just saying that there are a lot of skeptics that are so ready to debunk things that it's pointless for them to even view the evidence. They've made up their mind long before looking at anything. That's like me ordering a steak I know I'm not gonna wanna eat.

If no credible evidence = disbelief, then what would be credible evidence for you personally?

[edit on 19-6-2009 by spinalremain]

Originally posted by spinalremain
reply to post by necati

 

Im not saying the vid is authentic. Im saying if it is then its astounding evidence. Is it not? With the thousands and thousands of cases reported isn't it fair to assume that it's more likely that we are being visited by something than not? What k nd of evidence would suffice? Im confused about that. Any photo can be called a hoax, and any video can be called manipulated. Im just saying that there are a lot of skeptics that are so ready to debunk things that it's pointless for them to even view the evidence. They've made up their mind long before looking at anything. That's like me ordering a steak I know I'm not gonna wanna eat.

If no credible evidence = disbelief, then what would be credible evidence for you personally?

[edit on 19-6-2009 by spinalremain]

To be honest, I personally need no evidence at all, since I experienced something which can't be disproven. It's something which only counts for me and my friends who were there and shared the same thing happen. Else, I perhaps would have doubted my senses. Having said that it's worth nothing for others. Less than nothing. Anybody could claim anything which is the crux you see?!

I agree with you that credible testimony by so many should be evidence enough. For others it simply isn't and one has to accept that.
I for myself find it hard to believe that there are still people who think that so many thousands of witnesses are making something up or are deluded by their senses etc.

After all this is no reason for me to swallow any BS . As an atheist I anyhow have problems with the concept of belief and believing.

reply to post by necati


Well you got me curious now.. I'd like to hear what you and your friends experienced. It sounds very interesting. I guess thats just because Im a sucker for the unexplainable. Your experience would be quite welcome here and may shed light on a hidden truth perhaps.

Originally posted by spinalremain
reply to post by necati

 

Well you got me curious now.. I'd like to hear what you and your friends experienced. It sounds very interesting. I guess thats just because Im a sucker for the unexplainable. Your experience would be quite welcome here and may shed light on a hidden truth perhaps.

No it wouldn’t because it simply would be one of those stories which you believe or not. Even if I would still know my former friends, their testimony would be as useless as mine. We could collectively have made up the story. No undeniable evidence. This is not the same as having many testimonies on the same case corroborating other facts like in the case of the Phoenix Lights for example.
Anyway this thread is not the place where it belongs.
After having read the most fantastic things around here, I honestly wonder why someone is sharing those experiences. We’ve even aliens amongst us. Do they really expect anyone to believe? Again, even if true, a reasonable person should know that he/she would gain absolutely nothing but ridicule and confusion.


[edit on 19-6-2009 by necati]

Originally posted by Chadwickus
from what I read the authenticity meant it wasn't manipulated after the fact, meaning no CGI, what's being filmed still can be faked

As you said, The Science and Technology Research Board of Turkey (TUBITAK) got the original video, studied it thoroughly and came to the conclusion that it had not been tampered with.
"The objects sighted in the aforementioned footage that have a structure that is made of specific material are definitely not made up by any kind of computer animation nor are they any form of special effects used for simulation in a studio or for a video effect therefore in conclusion it was decided that the sightings were neither a mockup or hoax. "

www.siriusufo.org.../english/tubitak_kumburgaz.asp

The analysis said no strings or attachments to the craft could be found. So the shower head or hub cap is there in the sky, hanging by itself.

Originally posted by Chadwickus
The other problem is that the object that has been filmed (the one with the supposed aliens visible), has been filmed by one person over the span of several years and whenever it's been filmed it looks exactly the same every time.

THIS sets off huge alarm bells for me, therefore there must be a mundane explanation.

As far as I know, it has been filmed over a period of 3 years, from 2007 to 2009. By one person yes, but there are several witnesses I learn from Turkish sources. And yes, perhaps Aliens - if they exist - come back the same places, like migrating birds, or stay put, as you said yourself. I don't know, we could hardly pretend to understand their motives, could we?

Here's a sort of interview with Yalman the night guard:





These videos clear up some questions asked in this thread, why for instance we see no stars.

Haktan Akdogan explains that the video was taken over open water, you cannot see anything of the other side of Marmara, and there is nothing in the sea lit up.

One would think that in three years time, at least one person local to the region would have stepped forward and said "There is an oil rig in the sea right outside Kumburgaz, didn't anyone notice that?"

About the supposed aliens in the craft; I can't see any aliens, and I've got perfect sight on both eyes. But that's just me.



[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/33424fb58f78.png[/atsimg]

Originally posted by Chadwickus
I too believe that we're seeing two completely different objects so I disagree that it is a poor effort at "debunking"

Okay

So the fact that the objects in these two photos above (one from the nighttime footage of 2008 and the other from the daytime 2009 footage) have the same shape/body, proportions, numbers of lights, positioning of lights in relation to each other, that's just a coincidence? One is a rigged shower head and the other is a superior mirage of a fleet of fishing boats in the Marmara?

Originally posted by Chadwickus
One thing that comes to mind regarding this is the dog we see barking at the lights is heard earlier on barking whilst the object with the aliens on board is being filmed. It sounds like it's being recorded inside.

You could always ask The Science and Technology Research Board of Turkey to make an audio tape analysis for you.









[edit on 19-6-2009 by Heliocentric]

Quote from siriusufo.org:
This footage was filmed by Antonio Urzi during the 4th International UFO and NEWAGE Congress in Istanbul on the 14th of June 2009 at WOW Convention Center and witnessed by hundreds of people who were there...



____________________________________________
www.youtube.com...

reply to post by necati


So you're basically saying that unless there is irrefutable evidence to back up a claim, the claim should be suppressed and hidden as to avoid ridicule? I strongly oppose that view. I think we should bring each case to light. You can always look for evidence afterward. I mean, if a phenomenon is something which can reoccur then we would know what to look for by studying the exsisting cases. Your logic has us stuck in a never ending cycle of ignorance. That is until an alien or a ghost introduces themself to you on the subway and invites you to their realm for a game of Madden or somethin

Originally posted by spinalremain
reply to post by necati

 

So you're basically saying that unless there is irrefutable evidence to back up a claim, the claim should be suppressed and hidden as to avoid ridicule? I strongly oppose that view. I think we should bring each case to light. You can always look for evidence afterward. I mean, if a phenomenon is something which can reoccur then we would know what to look for by studying the exsisting cases. Your logic has us stuck in a never ending cycle of ignorance. That is until an alien or a ghost introduces themself to you on the subway and invites you to their realm for a game of Madden or somethin

Suppressed? I don’t want to suppress anything. Anyone may claim whatever he/she considers to be worth claiming. Everyone is free to submit any kind of stuff as long as he/she is ready to accept the criticism and is ready to answer the questions posed.
I myself decided not to tell my experience that’s all.
I would recommend others to tell their stories if there is some additional evidence which would back up the incident. They should be aware of the fact that unless such additional evidence is present the case would hardly yield some usable results.

reply to post by jpvskyfreak


Thats a great video.They keep get better all the time . I'm still amazed at all the people that don't think that they are real.

Originally posted by necati
Quote from siriusufo.org:
This footage was filmed by Antonio Urzi during the 4th International UFO and NEWAGE Congress in Istanbul on the 14th of June 2009 at WOW Convention Center and witnessed by hundreds of people who were there...

____________________________________________
www.youtube.com...

Thanks for the new video. Yet more evidence proving that this whole incident has been real.

That was Yalcin Yalman at the beginning. I believe the guy who owns the Sirius UFO Research Center put the meeting together. To skeptics: why would they go through all that effort bringing people together, bringing in the media etc. if it WASN'T real?