US May Execute 9/11 Detainees Without Trials

Originally posted by mr-lizard
Actually he's got a point. I think most people now believe that some faction the US was in some complicit in the attacks on 9/11.

Yeah, maybe here on ATS but in the real world that is just not the case and far from it.

Originally posted by WhatTheory

Originally posted by Bhadhidar
Nor have the detainees yet been Proven to be "terrorists".

Of course they have. These are people who killed and attempted to kill allied forces during battle in the Middle East. No trial needed.

So, what you are basically saying that if China (hypothetically speaking) invaded USA (which would be absolutely illegal, of course ) and you joined the resistance or on your own started killing their soldiers you would not mind calling yourself a terrorist and you would not mind them calling you the same and depriving you from your right to defend yourself on international court ?

Originally posted by WhatTheory
Using your flawed logic, we should have given all the prisoners of war during WWI and WWII the same rights as U.S. citizens and kept them in U.S. prisons.

What Germany was to the rest of the world in WW2 is what USA is to Iraq in this one:

Aggressor, occupying force, the bad guys in the eyes of the people of Iraq, but, hey, who cares about that ...

None of you really knows what it really means and how it feels to live on occupied territory

[edit on 6-6-2009 by 5thElement]

They don't have to plead guilty. They can plead their case.

Its the same as anyone in the US really. If they plead guilty then a penalty phase is conducted. This time however they are told the consequences of pleading guilty ahead of time.

Saves money and time.

edit for grammer.

[edit on 6-6-2009 by jd140]

reply to post by jd140


Well since there are a few fanatics amongst them, if they plead no contest then they will be killed and that would create a whole new feeling of despise against the U.S.

So it's not that easy, remember there are millions of Muslims who are waiting to see how this all will spread out.

O/k, Homeland security bust down your door at 3 Am and tazer you, and handcuff you.

You are shipped off to a FEMA prison camp and accused of being a terrorist because of some comment you made on an internet Forum.

They beat the crap out of you, and water board you, and then tell you if you plead guilty we will shoot you through the head.
If you don't sign a confession we will connect you up to some wires and interrogate you until you do plead guilty. And no, you cannot call a lawyer.

Other Americans say "well; he must be a terrorist, or they would not have arrested him. " terrorists are better off dead" It is the American way.

It makes me feel good that terrorists are being tortured and shot. It keeps all Americans safe.


Oh #, a SWAT team has just started breaking down my door, and a tear gas cannister has just come through my window, but I have done nothing.........

Originally posted by tristar
reply to post by jd140

 

Well since there are a few fanatics amongst them, if they plead no contest then they will be killed and that would create a whole new feeling of despise against the U.S.

So it's not that easy, remember there are millions of Muslims who are waiting to see how this all will spread out.

A plea of no contest may not be allowed as it isn't permissable in all states or trials. This can explain it better then I can.

www.wisegeek.com...

I'm not a lawyer, so if anyone has a better explanation feel free to dispute my link with one of your own.

Originally posted by 5thElement
So, what you are basically saying that if China (hypothetically speaking) invaded USA (which would be absolutely illegal, of course

) and you joined the resistance or on your own started killing their soldiers you would not mind calling yourself a terrorist and you would not mind them calling you the same and depriving you from your right to defend yourself on international court ?

What on Earth are you babbling on about?
I have no idea what you are talking about as your analogy makes no sense and is frankly incomprehensible, so no, that is not basically what I am saying.

The whole "innocent till proven guilty thing" yea, we made that up.

Originally posted by Happyfeet
The whole "innocent till proven guilty thing" yea, we made that up.

If they plead guilty then they are guilty. They plead innocent and they will get their day in court.

Plus a military tribunal is generally guilty until proven innocent anyways. It sucks, but it is the way of the military.

This country is going to hell in a hand basket..and from some of the responses I see on this post leads me to believe there is really no hope for us as a species..To much To fast has led to a very mentally ill society.

What?! They can kill with impunity?!

OH WAI! THEY'VE BEEN DOING THAT FOR A LONG TIME!

Coming soon to a jurisdiction near you: Summary Execution!

Yes, Summary Execution is just what your community has been missing! No more long drawn out and expensive trials. No more bothersome terrorists funded and trained by your own government. With Summary Execution, the elimination of threats to the establishment power structure are just a forced confession away, so rush right out and get Summary Execution today!

But wait, there’s more! Order Summary Execution right now and at no extra charge you’ll get Indefinite Detainment. That’s right, you could be the lucky recipient of decades of internment in whatever hell hole we determine. Torture and dehumanization free of charge! (so to speak)

Disclaimer: The right to face your accusers, presumption of innocence, protection from cruel and unusual punishment, and due process not included.

reminds of me of the old witch hunts almost.....
practicallly drown the victim to get the confession...
once you have the confession kill them...

mind you, most of the witches weren't really witches, they were just someone enough people just wanted to get rid of....
just like at least some of the prisoners who were rounded up in afghanistan weren't really terrorists, but rather, people the communities just wanted gone and well, they got a nice reward for turning them in....

by the way, you do realize that the taliban had a habit of going into the villages and well demanding that all the male boys who were old enough be handed over to them, drafted if you wish. they probably had less choice in their fate than many of the viet nam vets did, and well, faced worse consequences if they refused.

although I do imagine there is some pretty nasty people in guatanomo, I don't see where there's any way to be assured that there isn't just a few that just got sucked in. by the way, by what I hear, it was a prison before the war and there were some pretty nasty people in there already, what happens to them?

personally, I'm halfway expecting to hear that some horrible accident occurred in the place and well, we no longer have a problem as to what to do with these people.....maybe carter's weather machine can be used to manifest one huge hurricane to hit is dead on and flood the whole area or something....
but, well, it's the only way I see for Obama to get out of this mess now....

at least he accepts his mistakes and learns from them. he seems to have learned not to open his mouth till he knows what he's talking about now....

Of course they want there to be no trial. They dont want anyone questioning the official story. If there will be trial there has to be huge amount of control over all parties so no questionable people get to speak out.

I'm not condoning any of this - nor am I saying any of this will actually happen. A death sentence in the US generally means a decade more of appeals, pardons, etc.

But back to my point:

For those that think this is all a big farce, are you saying that terrorists don't exist? That the very term is coined by the US? I think that there are many members of Hamas and Hezbollah that would take offense for disputing their power. Or are those representatives secret US agents too?

I'm sure they are some locked up in Gitmo that are innocent - but on the other hand, i am as certain that there are those that are guilty.

So what is your suggestion as what to do with them? Set them all free? No other country seems to want them either. If we jail them all in the US indefinitely -- who do you think covers their expense?

I'm sorry - but I'm not in favor of having them all shipped to US jails for the taxpayers to support their "upkeep".

And I don't believe for one minute that the US is going to start execution style shootings.

That would be a horrible move. Though Obama is very pro-death penalty - he wanted to give it to pedophiles also remember - which would be a HUGE expansion of the federal system.

Originally posted by blackcube
I must note that americans are blind about the fact that they are under a dictatorial regime but can't see it.
My country suffered under a dictatorial regime for long time so it's easy to see when someone try to put something like that in motion.

en.wikipedia.org...

PS: USA gov helped the coup d'état... that's one of reason I dont give a damn about the USA gov, they can go to hell.

I would like to expand on you comment please.

I disagree that Americans are blind to the political and ideological reality of their governance.

Our country, like most others, is governed by a collection of institutions. The federal government is only one of them. Many Americans have seen the relative 'humanity' of our institutions degrading and faltering over the last 9 or 10 decades.

Executive administrators created new institutions, ostensibly to further the happiness, prosperity, or safety, of the American people. But it became clear that each had become somehow dysfunctional, either over a short period of time, or occasionally on it's very inception.

The Federal Government has become a sub-component of a larger organized ideological effort. It is sad but unavoidably evident. The overwhelming majority of our 'leadership' caste, our 'elites' as they prefer, are all subsumed by an agenda that is quite 'unconstitutional' and, essentially, as illegal as common sense dictates.

Now we see that direct manipulation of the executive administration of the national edifice is happening, unchecked, before our eyes. It is not invisible, nor are Americans like to 'ignore' it now that it is 'in our faces'.

However these institutions are quite effectively in control of what most of us hear and see of the developments of their agenda. This separates the American from the event. Americans did NOT vote for this, American DON'T support it, nor is it a representation of any 'American' value.

I am happy for you in that you can claim to be a surviving country freed from dictatorship. I fear that should that fate ever cross you country's path again, you may find yourselves isolated from the government that represents you; for that is what happened here.

Ironically, the 19th Century rustic folk of our national were mocked for their distrust of organized show business folk and scientists working for big government or business. They may have been more correct in their distrust than we had supposed. Today, Wall Street, Madison Avenue, Hollywood are quite literally are our voice, eyes, and ears to the world. Commerce became the most desirable avenue of prosperity, because it very nearly demands the presence of a 'third party' or middleman, once which needs neither to produce 'supply', nor pay for the 'demand' directly. An optimal business niche. And one which fueled the poisoning of the prime institution designed to protect us from the eventuality of 'coup de etat'.

But the drafter's of the Constitution knew all too well the dangers of entrenched power, and designed a mechanism which empowered the citizens to freely determine in whom they were going to entrust the power to determine law and policy. Almost 100 years after our birth as a nation, political parties saw to it that the freedom was limited to the choice of those THEY chose to represent THEM. Go figure.

Power-hungry, politically lecherous, and openly avaricious elite with time to kill, since they didn't have to devote time to earning a living (under their business model) began to create and migrate into the world of political celebrity.

"Societies" were established, new institutions, think-tanks, and policy 'committees' - all dedicated to their memberships' principles. Some were and still are secret, or at the very least, unspoken of.

This is a formula for crisis, in the clearer light of the Constitutional construct. We will find that our new, political celebrities, our cherished 'political' heroes, and our most eloquent and charismatic detractors will somehow fail to check this development. Therein is a big clue to what has already taken place, let alone for what is to come.

Today Robber Barons and Political Careerists rule with virtual impunity, making law at their whim, either by decree or manipulation. While many don't recognize the connection, I believe it has something to do with the isolation of the citizens, through bread and circuses.

A 'terrorist' detainee can end their miserable existence by claiming guilt, and being executed. What does Justice say to this? It's a military tribunal.
So I guess it's OK. It's up to someone else, so don't ask me. Only, while we're wondering about steroids in the chariot races of the day, people are deciding for us, what is right and what is wrong, and the world won't blame the 'deciders', they will blame US.

....

I think we have lost the road, what the U.S. has done by kidnapping military personal and taking them to their own predefined war camp is exactly what used to be done in he middle ages, were after a period of time they too were executed.

How can someone be classified an enemy combatant or enemy of the state when you intentionally declared war on a country based on false information.

The Iraq and Afghanistan war was an invasion with the blessing of the whole world. If you even attempt to deny this, then i guess we both are living on different planet's. The same placebo is being used for Iran and N.Korea, on a side note an identical method was achieved and which brought down the U.S.S.R. with the help of Gorby(my pet name for him) as a result, the then President of Russia who was also given the presidency as a thank you from the west who had obviously no idea how global politics were run let alone diplomacy, were by he managed to cripple Russia into a futile economy and social order.

Ever since the 90's when Putin was being groomed for his and current position by the hard liners, the west suddenly took more notice and decided to fund the Taliban and the Chechnya against soviet external new wave politics. An active role played the C.I.A. and N.S.A. in providing what turned out to be the deciding factor for what resulted in a loss on the side of Russia.

However after re-grouping and waking sleepers they found that by totally leveling parts of Chechnya which was too close to home was the optimal course of action. When the U.S. decided to denounce Russia's new policy they replied with what the U.S. had replied,"Terrorists" And that sealed the fate of that nation.

We have now seen an identical method used again but this time the nation is Georgia, they too will have their fate sealed as it has already been agreed upon to divide the country. Currently there are maps within NATO which depict the borders which Russia has put forward towards NATO so as all hostilities can cease to exist. NATO has delayed this proposal for over 6 months. This is why many of you have heard the espionage scandal involving a high official from Russia being expelled from NATO and a high U.S. official from Russia.

In closing the commodity which you all seem to refer as human rights is just another form of currency, the only difference is that this commodity is a living organism and its easier to replenish if and when it needs to be.

[edit on 7-6-2009 by tristar]