It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

UCLA Prohibits Student from Saying 'Jesus' in Graduation Speech

page: 5
11
<< 2  3  4    6  7  8 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Jun, 5 2009 @ 11:15 PM
link   
reply to post by jimminycricket
 


You have a healthy point of view
It does go both ways.




posted on Jun, 5 2009 @ 11:15 PM
link   

Originally posted by WhatTheory

Originally posted by Annee
I believe in a Creator and gods.

Why do you keep ignoring my post by only picking out one sentence which you believe will help you make your lame point.

I will post it again:

Why should anyone in the audience be offended by hearing someone say the word God? Will your ears bleed? Will your head explode? Why should anyone care who she thanks? Will it change your beliefs?

If not, then people should just mind their own business and stop trying to implement their secular beliefs on everyone else in the audience.

[edit on 6/5/2009 by WhatTheory]


Personally I find your post mocking - judgmental - and sarcastic.

My personal god belief is irrelevant to this discussion.

My posts have addressed the subject and specific points.

Good day!



[edit on 5-6-2009 by Annee]



posted on Jun, 5 2009 @ 11:18 PM
link   

Originally posted by Annee

Originally posted by Hastobemoretolife
She worked her butt off to graduate high in her class and she has earned the right to speak. If people don't like what she has to say then they can get up and leave.


No one is stopping her from speaking. They are asking her to have respect for her fellow graduates.

It simply is not all about her.

Plus - - it is actually mandated by the state for public schools.


You are absolutely incorrect. With every post you dig your hole deeper, it is almost safe to say that you are a troll. They are stopping her from speaking by telling her she can not thank her little jesus, they are showing a disregard for her religion and her ability to express how thankful she is. It is not all about her you say? What are you talking about exactly? This is censorship, no matter which way you spin it. And you, are a supporter of it. Church and State? What about a student thanking their religious idol at a graduation speech violates that? The school has not single anyone out nor have they endorsed a certain religion. Therefor that rules out the church and state issue. She can thank who she wants, where she wants, and when she wants. Anyone can really, its quite easy!


SPOILER ALERT: In America, you have the right to offend people with your words and views! That does not mean you can restrict them.


[edit on 5-6-2009 by OKCBtard]



posted on Jun, 5 2009 @ 11:24 PM
link   
A little light reading. . .


The Establishment Clause

Thomas Jefferson’s 1802 letter to a group of Baptists of Danbury, Connecticut states that the purpose of the First Amendment was to build “a wall of separation between church and state.” Yet what President Jefferson meant by this wall is patently obvious from the weight of historical evidence cited above: namely, that this did not mean that there could be no point of contact between church and state. Civil governments have all kinds of laws that churches must obey: building codes, fire safety codes and zoning ordinances. None of these violate the liberty of churches to worship God according to their own liberty of conscience. Furthermore, there are times when the members of ecclesiastical bodies are simply unable to decide issues without submitting to the judgment of civil courts. A prime example of this would be contentions over the ownership of the church’s property.

Thomas Jefferson’s phrase in 1802 must be understood in light of what he said in his “Second Inaugural Address,” in 1805:

“In matters of religion I have considered that its free exercise is placed by the Constitution independent of the powers of the General Government. I have therefore undertaken on no occasion to prescribe the religious exercises suited to it, but have left them, as the Constitution found them, under the direction and discipline of the church or state authorities acknowledged by the several religious societies.”

Christian people are free to influence legislation that is in keeping with the moral principles of Christianity, and Christian parents are duty bound to see to it that their children are educated in light of Christian principles and morality. A godless educational system is a dreadful curse to American society, the very idea of which would have been abjured by the founders of our nation.

“Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God, the LORD is one. Love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength. These commandments that I give you today are to be upon your hearts. Impress them on your children. Talk about them when you sit at home and when you walk along the road, when you lie down and when you get up.” (Deuteronomy 6:4-7.)

Bob Vincent



posted on Jun, 5 2009 @ 11:27 PM
link   
If you ignore most of the above then please read this. . ."A godless educational system is a dreadful curse to American society, the very idea of which would have been abjured by the founders of our nation. "

Thank you

all hail the flying spaghetti monster. . .



posted on Jun, 5 2009 @ 11:31 PM
link   

Originally posted by OKCBtard


You are absolutely incorrect. With every post you dig your hole deeper, it is almost safe to say that you are a troll.


You are making this personal by attacking me.

I am not in any way required to think or view anything from your perspective.

And I don't.



posted on Jun, 5 2009 @ 11:36 PM
link   

Originally posted by Annee

Originally posted by OKCBtard


You are absolutely incorrect. With every post you dig your hole deeper, it is almost safe to say that you are a troll.


You are making this personal by attacking me.

I am not in any way required to think or view anything from your perspective.

And I don't.



It's okay. It's just now I am convinced that you are argueing for the heck of it. Your arguement holds no water, the girl WILL thank jesus in her speech, the world will keep spinning and there is nothing you can do about it. You have really failed to bring up any reason as to why she should be prohibited from voicing her gratitude to jesus. All you do is dance around peoples posts, I swear you are a troll.



posted on Jun, 5 2009 @ 11:40 PM
link   

Originally posted by Annee
Personally I find your post mocking - judgmental - and sarcastic.

My personal god belief is irrelevant to this discussion.

My posts have addressed the subject and specific points.

Good day!

How is asking you some simple questions be called mocking or sarcastic. My questions you keep ignoring have nothing to do with your personal belief in God and you have not address my specific points.


I will post it again:

Why should anyone in the audience be offended by hearing someone say the word God? Will your ears bleed? Will your head explode? Why should anyone care who she thanks? Will it change your beliefs?

If not, then people should just mind their own business and stop trying to implement their secular beliefs on everyone else in the audience.


These are some simple questions but perhaps to difficult for you to answer logically and honestly.


Oh yeah, here is another question I asked which you did not answer:


There is no state law which states that students cannot mention God at college graduation.
Please enlighten us on this supposed law.


[edit on 6/5/2009 by WhatTheory]



posted on Jun, 5 2009 @ 11:41 PM
link   
reply to post by OKCBtard
 


Didn't you know, it's now fashionable to bash christians. In California they make it near manditory. Remember the thread about the San Diego couple that had to pay to have prayer meetings in their home?



posted on Jun, 6 2009 @ 01:20 AM
link   

Originally posted by OKCBtard

It's okay. It's just now I am convinced that you are argueing for the heck of it. Your arguement holds no water, the girl WILL thank jesus in her speech, the world will keep spinning and there is nothing you can do about it. You have really failed to bring up any reason as to why she should be prohibited from voicing her gratitude to jesus. All you do is dance around peoples posts, I swear you are a troll.


NO - you are just trying to spin it that you are the Master and I am the Slave.

Won't work buddy.

I am of my own independent thought/opinion/viewpoint. I am not in any way required to agree with yours or anyone else's.

Yes - I am aware of the "Dance" game - you can't manipulate me to change my thinking to yours - got it.

I've stated my position clearly - period.



posted on Jun, 6 2009 @ 01:35 AM
link   

Originally posted by Annee
Good!

Her personal religion doesn't belong at a graduation of multi-cultural students of various beliefs.


i bet you would love it if we all wore the same uniform eh?

how about brown? no?

thats why diversity is good, and conformity is bad

why cant you see that?



posted on Jun, 6 2009 @ 01:39 AM
link   

Originally posted by ragnarak
Not that I'm a big Jesus fan but she should be able to say it if she wants to. She should just say she won't, then read it anyways. What are they going to do? Rush up and tackle her secret service style? They can't prevent free speech.


i would scream Jesus, Allah, Spaghetti Monster etc etc UNTIL they tackled me


After i get my diploma of course


they need to see how free speech is Unstoppable



posted on Jun, 6 2009 @ 01:47 AM
link   
When is college a public school?


They have to be accepted and agree to pay the college of their choice a tuition and buy their own books. In grade school through High School that would be considered a private school.

This is a suppresion of freedom of speech. How some can't understand that is beyond me. They can't see past their hate of religion to see this I guess.



posted on Jun, 6 2009 @ 01:53 AM
link   

Originally posted by Phlegmi
What about separation of church and state... If its a public school then its run by the state therefore no religious speeches or symbols should be present on the campus.


dead wrong

the Constitution of the United States of America is the LAW of the LAND

no law may attempt to override it!

the Freedom of speech is protected everywhere in this Nation,especially in public

if you deny this right you will have your rights denied, its simple

leave the fortress of totalitarianism and come over to the side of Freedom and Liberty



posted on Jun, 6 2009 @ 01:54 AM
link   

Originally posted by muzzleflash

Originally posted by Annee
Good!

Her personal religion doesn't belong at a graduation of multi-cultural students of various beliefs.


i bet you would love it if we all wore the same uniform eh?

how about brown? no?

thats why diversity is good, and conformity is bad

why cant you see that?


What are you talking about. What conformity?

Did you miss the post where I said ALL beliefs should be recognized and allowed to express their thanks?



posted on Jun, 6 2009 @ 01:56 AM
link   

Originally posted by Annee
Did you miss the post where I said ALL beliefs should be recognized and allowed to express their thanks?

What?
I guess you mean except at college graduations when a student thanks God?



posted on Jun, 6 2009 @ 02:02 AM
link   

Originally posted by Annee
Most posters on this thread are arguing from personal belief and emotions - - rather then logic and rationale -

And by-the-way - - just for you - - I fully support the 2nd amendment.


No they are arguing to you from the LAW of the LAND

would you please actually read it for once?

and i am terribly sorry, but you are attacking free speech


just answer this question, "How can You tell someone else what they CANNOT say" and it be "Supporting free speech"???



posted on Jun, 6 2009 @ 02:03 AM
link   
If I want to thank God in a speech for graduation then I will. Not one human being will stop me. If the issue is about being respectful, then I will respectfully tell the audience that if what I am about to say offends you, then close your ears. Simple as that and everyone's happy. People make too many things complicated sometimes. Also, if anyone refutes "too many things complicated" just think how many people would be outraged about not being able to thank whomever. What's that? Yes, your right. It would get complicated. Find a way to make everyone happy and the issue would "then" be settled.



posted on Jun, 6 2009 @ 02:10 AM
link   

Originally posted by Annee


Its a state law.





The Constitution trumps all state laws.

Thankfully we have the Constitution, and your opinion falls flat when it comes down to the Law.

I am sure glad the Law protects me from people that attack free speech.




posted on Jun, 6 2009 @ 02:14 AM
link   

Originally posted by muzzleflash

No they are arguing to you from the LAW of the LAND

would you please actually read it for once?

and i am terribly sorry, but you are attacking free speech



I am well aware of the different positions in this discussion.

I am also well aware of how people want me to give them the answer THEY want.

I am also aware many lawsuits have been filed in situations like this - some won - some lost.

There is no "blanket" Free Speech on this issue - in this situation. The school is a public school - therefore it is government sanctioned. They have made a call/decision - that I agree with. So obviously I am not the only person taking the position I am.

I personally am 100% a supporter of separation of church and state (NO God in Government). That is my personal position.

A public school is a Government school. My position stands.



new topics

top topics



 
11
<< 2  3  4    6  7  8 >>

log in

join