Absolutely FABULOUS Shark video - now that one is a MUST SEE.

Added note - I’m glad I watched it AFTER going to the beach today, but, it’s still a fab watch.

Thanks for the great post.

S&F

peace

Not all animals are intelligent, in fact many of them are extremely dumb and don't even know they are alive. A few animals do have a certain degree of intelligence, like other primates apart from humans and octopus. However their intelligence is about that of a three or four year old child at best.
some animals have emotions, but many of them only feel simple emotions such as happiness and fear. Their brains are already hardwired to have certain behaviors and might sometimes show "human" behavior, but this is due to domestication and not living in the wild with their own kind.
I believe many of you give animals too much credit.
HOWEVER, there is one animal out there who could possibly be compared to a human in terms of intelligence- the dolphin.
Dolphins are believed to have their own language, but not a simple one like most animals that only works for warning others and mating. Dolphins are believed to communicate as if they were sharing ideas or communicating when there is no apparent reason to do so.
They are not very easy to be trained for violent purposes; they refuse to harm another human being (most of the time) as if they had their own ethics. Most other animals will refuse at first but ultimately end up tamed, even for violent goals.
I don't remember where I read this, but one man claimed he saw a group of dolphins sitting on their back fin at the bottom of a pool making a circle. Apparently they were communicating with each other.
I should make more research into these dolphins. I believe the "intelligence" of a monkey or chimpanzee is nothing compared to that of the dolphin, who should really get more attention when it comes to studying animal intelligence than wasting time on those primates.

I have often thought, in observing my own pets and others, that many animals become more intelligent by being around us and observing us. Might have something to do with taking them out of their natural hostile environment and redirecting they're brain towards behaviors other that survival? Or I could be wrong But octopuses are crazy smart, no doubt.

Originally posted by _Phoenix_
Uh yes they are concious....?

Many animals have very human emotions.

They have more base emotions triggered by extreme stimulae. They may have some impressive intelligence as well, but they are not concious, no one has ever proven they are even close to our level.

The closest we have come is proving chimps are able to recognise themselves in the mirror. That is a reason i wouldn't eat a chimp, because i honestly believe they are close to use, there is still a big difference but it's close enough to be careful witgh how they are treated.

Originally posted by _Phoenix_
Also the main point is most humans are probably tasty.

Yep but humans are self aware, understand their own mortality etc etc.

Originally posted by _Phoenix_
p.s: it's also not all about intelligence from "OUR" view, they can be intelligent in their own ways, there are many things that animals can do WAY better than us, which people seem to ignore.

When we speak of intelligence there are few things animals can do better than us. The only experiment i can think of is that chimps seem to have better short term memories.

Originally posted by _Phoenix_
Also the understanding and connection a human can have between his pet can be unreal, a cat can truly feel and understand you as you can understand them, love them and they will love you.

I have a cat, i love my cat, she is however incredibly dumb compared to a human. She is not self aware and that is a very important point. Animals may be smart enough to figure some things out but they often need training or many many attempts. Take the squirrel example, they didn't do it first time, in fact it can sometimes take them weeks to work out an obstacle course.

Originally posted by _Phoenix_
I see a lot of humans try to belittle animals, try to say animals are nothing but meat, and are unworthy of any praise, and that humans are WAY above animals.

That truly is selfish thinking, and they do it to "convince" themselves that it's ok to eat animals.

Erm no i don't do it for that reason, i do it because it is scientifically correct. Tell you what, next time you see a lion, jump the fence and tell it how much you don't like it being belittled. We'll see how you feel when it's chomping on your leg. See the lion isn't that smart, it doesn't care about others.

How many animals build shelters, try and safe endangered species, have charities for animals.................oh wait just one, us. That does make us better then them.

Originally posted by _Phoenix_
Well I think it's ok to eat animals, but I think it goes too far when you have disrespect for the animals we share this planet with, the animals that without them we would NOT exist, without them the planet would become a VERY dull place.

Don't think i disrespect animals. I honestly don't. I love animals and i treat them well. Hey even the ones i have shot myself i have mentally said sorry to before i pulled the trigger. I treat them with respect, never taking a shot that won't definitely kill them out right. I don't want them to suffer and that is respect.

It's not disrespect, i just think it's silly to say that animals are on even a slightly even field with us in intellect or awareness of self.

Great thread, great videos (I was almost in tears when Koko lost her kitten) I haven't watched the shark one yet but I will. Thank you so much for sharing them with us

I believe that many animals are considerably more intelligent than we believe. Even just by observing the behaviour of my two cats, it's quite clear they feel emotions, even beyond what may be termed as just instinct. Anger, fear & love are all quite obvious. I also believe that they can communicate in ways that aren't obvious or understood by humans. For example, one of my cats (Satchmo) is about 12 years old now and is a house cat who has only ever gotten out a few times. He's always been affectionate and active, running around, jumping on the furniture and just having fun. Then one day a couple of months ago another cat came into the garden and then jumped up on the window ledge outside. Satch went up to the window and just had what could be described as a staring contest with this other cat for about five minutes. Then he jumped down and walked over to a corner of the room and lay down. He wouldn't leave that corner other than to eat or use his litter tray for almost three weeks, and it was hardly the comfiest spot as he was lying on a few power cables for the TV & Hi-Fi. When he eventually started to come out he was very cagey, and wouldn't jump up on the furniture or my wife and I. We were actually quite worried about him, but thankfully he's started to act like his old self again. Now it wasn't the first time cats have been in the garden or up on the ledge but he's never behaved like that before. What did that other cat 'say' or do to make him react like that? It was very weird...

Thank you for posting these. I try to spread the word as much as possible so, I hope you don't mind, but I took some of these links and composed an email.
S&F !!!!! With people like you, maybe we can get others to realize that animals are not here just for our amusement, to be caged and abused and then thrown away at our convinence.
God Bless!!!!!!!

Cool, but I'd still eat em if I had some alone time with them.

A lot of that isn't "real intelligence", learning how to find food through positive reinforcement really isn't that amazing. Finding food is a basic drive for all animals. And the vid with the elephant, more than likely the elephant didn't do that spontaneously one day but instead was basically tortured until it painted the picture right. It was in a tourist area and locals are known to force animals into performing if it gets them money.

EXCELLENT post, star & flag for you.

Originally posted by _Phoenix_
Also the understanding and connection a human can have between his pet can be unreal, a cat can truly feel and understand you as you can understand them, love them and they will love you.

They do not understand numbers, math or economics; letters, language or law, but that does not preclude them as sentient beings.

Originally posted by ImaginaryReality1984
How many animals build shelters, try and safe endangered species, have charities for animals.................oh wait just one, us. That does make us better then them.

Were it not for our (mis)treatment of them (and their delicate ecosystems), they may not need shelters, be endangered or require the benefit of charities.

[edit on 7-6-2009 by antisocialbutterfly]

This thread is fantastic.

While I think alot of it is exceptional cases, animals are definately alot more intelligent than they are given credit for. I mean, if a parrot like Alex can do all of that with his tiny bird's brain, imagine what other animals would be capable of. Dolphins, etc. Obviously with training they are going to be smarter than animals in the wild, but the same goes for humans.

A few of my friends have pet birds who have learned to mimic them. Which I think is quite clever of an animal anyway.

I've seen a few documentaries about Alex the Grey Parrot and Koko before, thanks for reminding me about them, time to go Google

S+F!

Originally posted by ghaleon12
Cool, but I'd still eat em if I had some alone time with them.

A lot of that isn't "real intelligence",

I would say the same about the majority of the human animal, also. What we grant ourselves as intelligence, is often quite simply arrogance reinforced with ignorance.

I believe we no more have dominion over any other animal than that which we give ourselves. It is not a right we are born into.

In a thread that so far has attempted to put into perspective the common fallacy of intelligence being the sole property of the human animal, WHY does it require the obligatory "MEET TASTEE, ME EET ANOMAL NAO!! ANOMAL STOOPID!!!" interjection?

Some people are claiming as fact that they know the be all and end all of the level on intelligence, beyond that of human understanding. God forbid that we might just not be capable of grasping the entire plethora of intricacies that profound intelligence requires.

It's easier to just go along with it. There is no hope.

Lets keep salivating over bear bile, chowing down on tiger penis, devouring shark fin soup, raping the planet of it's soul, because we're just meant to do it.

Let's never give credit to another creature that does not grunt and howl while tending a field. Not that 99% of the human animal could exist without having everything handed to them on a platter for $99.95 w/gst.

Does anyone has any "Secret" infos/interesting facts on black crows? please contribute...

Superb, OP !
Thanks for the animals.
I've always thought that they had the ability to think.
My cat has.

Now, what I think, is that WE, as human observer, have an influence on their intelligence.

The more we belong to their environment, the more they become intelligent.
Isn't it the case for ourselves ?
- a man beyond a dumbish environment, has a very small chance to proove intelligent.
- On the contrary, a stimulating and cheerfull envoronment will improve his skills.

So I think the more we will be aware of the intellectual abilities of the animals, the more we will try to communicate with them on a respectfull and friendfull way, the more they will proove to be intelligent.

At the end, maybe we will discover that the whole universe IS intelligent.

Some have tried to proove vegetal intelligence.
Many times, when pouring water to my garden plants, I feel the joy they communicate. Kind of telepathy.

Do minerals have some kind of intelligence, some langage able to tell us they have one ? Think of it : facing a mountain, have you never felt some kind of langage speaking to your mind ?

Maybe the highest goal of our own intelligence is to reveal and interlace all those seeds of intelligence and consciousness.

[edit on 7/6/2009 by orkson]

Incredible! Thanks for postings...

But, I do have a problem lol...


We observe animals doing humanistic tenancies and think it's intelligence. I'd have to argue that the true intelligence of animals is their abilities to feel danger, seek absolute truth, and live in harmony with all. Where did we go wrong? What happened to us?