Liberty Dollar maker, three others, arrested by feds, page 1
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ATS Members have flagged this thread 5 times
Topic started on 5-6-2009 @ 05:25 PM by TheAssociate
Earlier this week, federal officials arrested Bernard von Nothaus and two other Evansville residents, alleging that they have distributed Liberty Dollars coins meant to resemble U.S. currency.

Von NotHaus, 65, and the other defendants were indicted in the District Court for the Western District of North Carolina on a number of charges involving conspiracy and fraud. Von NotHaus was arrested Thursday morning in Florida, after he turned himself over to the U.S. Marshalls. The other defendants from Evansville, Sarah Jane Bledsoe, 42, and Rachelle L. Moseley, 34, were both arrested Wednesday. All three have bonded out of jail.
source


I've heard of the liberty dollar before, but i never really understood exactly what these people were trying to do. So i did some research:

The Liberty Dollar is a private currency embodied in minted metal pieces (referred to as rounds) and gold and silver certificates (ALD), and electronic currency (eLD). ALD certificates are warehouse receipts for real gold and silver formerly owned by ALD certificate holders which was warehoused at the Sunshine Mint in Coeur d'Alene, Idaho prior to a November, 2007 raid by the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) and the Secret Service. [1] The Liberty Dollar is distributed by Liberty Services (formerly known as NORFED), based in Evansville, Indiana. It was created by Bernard von NotHaus, the co-founder of the Royal Hawaiian Mint Company.[2] Von NotHaus retired from Liberty Dollar in October 2008, to found the Free Marijuana Church in Hawaii.[3] [4]

The Liberty Dollar warehouses were raided and the contents confiscated by the FBI and Secret Service on November 15, 2007. The FBI states that this confiscation is intended to prevent people mistaking Liberty Dollars for legal tender; the Liberty Dollar organization is accused of illegally presenting the currency as a legal alternative to the United States dollar. To date, no one has been accused of any crime. The gold, silver, and copper seized have been accused of being proceeds of crime but no criminal charge is pending. [5]
wikipedia


It seems they are trying to reinstate the gold/silver standard, and with good reason. Now why would the government have a problem with that? Why would they confiscate their gold, silver and copper and keep it without filing criminal charges? Sounds like the feds have found another easy way to steal property for no real reason, to me. And i wouldn't doubt that these arrests are another attempt to plunder Liberty Dollar's resources.


TA


reply posted on 5-6-2009 @ 05:33 PM by TheAssociate
Here is the DOJ press release (PDF) and here is the 13 page indictment (PDF).

Here is what Lew Rockwell had to say about it:

Oh sure, we are likely to mistake an ounce of silver for the tin junk uttered and passed by the US Mint. The actual charge the feds care about is at the end, that the Liberty Dollar is "intended for use as current money," in direct competition with the state. Should someone be allowed to mint whatever he wants, charge whatever he wants, and try to pass it as money? Of course, so long as no fraud is involved (fraud being a government monopoly). So it is an outrage that these four people have been arrested for non-crimes, and will be tried in a federal kangaroo court, where they will not be allowed to mention the Constitution or many other things, and perhaps be put in cages for years when they are pronounced "guilty."

Free the Liberty Dollar Four and all political prisoners!


I couldn't agree more.

They're scared that someone just might do something to topple the Federal Reserve and frankly, i'm glad to see them shake and cower.


TA

[edit on 5-6-2009 by TheAssociate]

[edit on 5-6-2009 by TheAssociate]


reply posted on 5-6-2009 @ 05:46 PM by TheAssociate
reply to post by getreadyalready



Von NotHaus, 65, and the other defendants were indicted in the District Court for the Western District of North Carolina on a number of charges involving conspiracy and fraud.
source


Conspiracy and fraud are the current charges.

The confiscation of their metal happened a while back and i'm still researching that. But according to wikipedia they confiscated their metal under the premise that it was being used in a criminal manner. It's the same pretense they use to confiscate drug dealers' property and seize money they find in cars during traffic stops: the property may have been involved or obtained in the course of criminal activities, so they say the have the right to take it.


TA



[edit on 5-6-2009 by TheAssociate]


reply posted on 5-6-2009 @ 05:50 PM by getreadyalready
reply to post by TheAssociate



I won a big chunk at a casino one time, and I had to drive almost 3 hours home. I was nervous the whole way, because I have heard that almost all money has traces of cocaine on it. If you are stopped and the money tested, they can seize it!

That is pretty scary stuff. Why should we be afraid to carry cash?! Why should we be afraid of being "accused" of a crime?!

How is it fraud and conspiracy when they are marketing it as an alternative? If they aren't claiming you can spend it at Wal-Mart, then I don't see the fraud.


reply posted on 5-6-2009 @ 06:10 PM by TheAssociate
reply to post by getreadyalready





If you are stopped and the money tested, they can seize it!

That is true.



That is pretty scary stuff. Why should we be afraid to carry cash?! Why should we be afraid of being "accused" of a crime?!

It is a damn shame that in America, of all places, we have to worry about our property being seized for little or no reason. Just remember that, for the time being, we still have the Fourth Amendment. If you're pulled over, you don't have to allow cops to search your vehicle and they can't hold you if you don't allow them.



How is it fraud and conspiracy when they are marketing it as an alternative? If they aren't claiming you can spend it at Wal-Mart, then I don't see the fraud.

That's a good question. Your guess is as good as mine on that.


TA


reply posted on 5-6-2009 @ 06:26 PM by TheAssociate
reply to post by whatukno





This looks like a trumped up charge to me to basically steal these peoples supplies of gold and silver.


That's exactly what i'm thinking. They saw that someone had something they wanted and decided to do an end-run around the Fourth Amendment.

People invest in gold every day. There are commercials advertising places that will help you to do just that all over the airwaves. These people aren't criminals, they're marks in the property forfeiture scam.


TA



reply posted on 5-6-2009 @ 07:02 PM by Walkswithfish
Interesting.

When they are done prosecuting these people maybe they should go after an entire town for printing their own money.

abcnews.go.com...



What difference will it ultimately make?

Unless there are major changes in the course this country is on the US dollar could end up nearly worthless.


reply posted on 5-6-2009 @ 07:15 PM by mikerussellus
reply to post by dooper




Excellent point.

Really.


[edit on 5-6-2009 by mikerussellus]


reply posted on 5-6-2009 @ 09:34 PM by warrenb
reply to post by getreadyalready




they are guaranteeing that noone will be able to print money, expect themselves (FEDR). Thus guaranteeing themselves a necessary role in whatever future the US has. They believe themselves to be gods among men with their magical abilities to print money out of thin air.


[sarcasm]
We all need magicians like that, don't we? And in exchange for their services we willingly do their bidding.
[/sarcasm]


do we really need the FEDR? nope, in fact everything was peachy keen till they showed up. funny that.






reply posted on 6-6-2009 @ 10:58 AM by Grayelf2009
reply to post by getreadyalready



Well put...they have no right and it looks just like a gold/grab.
Where are they talking all this gold to ??
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