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Liberty Dollar maker, three others, arrested by feds

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posted on Jun, 5 2009 @ 05:25 PM
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Earlier this week, federal officials arrested Bernard von Nothaus and two other Evansville residents, alleging that they have distributed Liberty Dollars coins meant to resemble U.S. currency.

Von NotHaus, 65, and the other defendants were indicted in the District Court for the Western District of North Carolina on a number of charges involving conspiracy and fraud. Von NotHaus was arrested Thursday morning in Florida, after he turned himself over to the U.S. Marshalls. The other defendants from Evansville, Sarah Jane Bledsoe, 42, and Rachelle L. Moseley, 34, were both arrested Wednesday. All three have bonded out of jail.
source


I've heard of the liberty dollar before, but i never really understood exactly what these people were trying to do. So i did some research:


The Liberty Dollar is a private currency embodied in minted metal pieces (referred to as rounds) and gold and silver certificates (ALD), and electronic currency (eLD). ALD certificates are warehouse receipts for real gold and silver formerly owned by ALD certificate holders which was warehoused at the Sunshine Mint in Coeur d'Alene, Idaho prior to a November, 2007 raid by the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) and the Secret Service. [1] The Liberty Dollar is distributed by Liberty Services (formerly known as NORFED), based in Evansville, Indiana. It was created by Bernard von NotHaus, the co-founder of the Royal Hawaiian Mint Company.[2] Von NotHaus retired from Liberty Dollar in October 2008, to found the Free Marijuana Church in Hawaii.[3] [4]

The Liberty Dollar warehouses were raided and the contents confiscated by the FBI and Secret Service on November 15, 2007. The FBI states that this confiscation is intended to prevent people mistaking Liberty Dollars for legal tender; the Liberty Dollar organization is accused of illegally presenting the currency as a legal alternative to the United States dollar. To date, no one has been accused of any crime. The gold, silver, and copper seized have been accused of being proceeds of crime but no criminal charge is pending. [5]
wikipedia


It seems they are trying to reinstate the gold/silver standard, and with good reason. Now why would the government have a problem with that? Why would they confiscate their gold, silver and copper and keep it without filing criminal charges? Sounds like the feds have found another easy way to steal property for no real reason, to me. And i wouldn't doubt that these arrests are another attempt to plunder Liberty Dollar's resources.


TA




posted on Jun, 5 2009 @ 05:33 PM
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Here is the DOJ press release (PDF) and here is the 13 page indictment (PDF).

Here is what Lew Rockwell had to say about it:


Oh sure, we are likely to mistake an ounce of silver for the tin junk uttered and passed by the US Mint. The actual charge the feds care about is at the end, that the Liberty Dollar is "intended for use as current money," in direct competition with the state. Should someone be allowed to mint whatever he wants, charge whatever he wants, and try to pass it as money? Of course, so long as no fraud is involved (fraud being a government monopoly). So it is an outrage that these four people have been arrested for non-crimes, and will be tried in a federal kangaroo court, where they will not be allowed to mention the Constitution or many other things, and perhaps be put in cages for years when they are pronounced "guilty."

Free the Liberty Dollar Four and all political prisoners!


I couldn't agree more.

They're scared that someone just might do something to topple the Federal Reserve and frankly, i'm glad to see them shake and cower.


TA

[edit on 5-6-2009 by TheAssociate]

[edit on 5-6-2009 by TheAssociate]



posted on Jun, 5 2009 @ 05:39 PM
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How can they be arrested and post bond with no criminal charges pending? If this is not counterfeiting, then what crime is it? With all the missing gold lately, and the missing $1 trillion from the Fed, it is looking like someone is raiding the coffers before a big event!



posted on Jun, 5 2009 @ 05:46 PM
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reply to post by getreadyalready
 



Von NotHaus, 65, and the other defendants were indicted in the District Court for the Western District of North Carolina on a number of charges involving conspiracy and fraud.
source


Conspiracy and fraud are the current charges.

The confiscation of their metal happened a while back and i'm still researching that. But according to wikipedia they confiscated their metal under the premise that it was being used in a criminal manner. It's the same pretense they use to confiscate drug dealers' property and seize money they find in cars during traffic stops: the property may have been involved or obtained in the course of criminal activities, so they say the have the right to take it.


TA



[edit on 5-6-2009 by TheAssociate]



posted on Jun, 5 2009 @ 05:50 PM
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reply to post by TheAssociate
 


I won a big chunk at a casino one time, and I had to drive almost 3 hours home. I was nervous the whole way, because I have heard that almost all money has traces of coc aine on it. If you are stopped and the money tested, they can seize it!

That is pretty scary stuff. Why should we be afraid to carry cash?! Why should we be afraid of being "accused" of a crime?!

How is it fraud and conspiracy when they are marketing it as an alternative? If they aren't claiming you can spend it at Wal-Mart, then I don't see the fraud.



posted on Jun, 5 2009 @ 06:10 PM
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reply to post by getreadyalready
 





If you are stopped and the money tested, they can seize it!

That is true.




That is pretty scary stuff. Why should we be afraid to carry cash?! Why should we be afraid of being "accused" of a crime?!

It is a damn shame that in America, of all places, we have to worry about our property being seized for little or no reason. Just remember that, for the time being, we still have the Fourth Amendment. If you're pulled over, you don't have to allow cops to search your vehicle and they can't hold you if you don't allow them.




How is it fraud and conspiracy when they are marketing it as an alternative? If they aren't claiming you can spend it at Wal-Mart, then I don't see the fraud.

That's a good question. Your guess is as good as mine on that.


TA



posted on Jun, 5 2009 @ 06:20 PM
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I'm not sure, but I don't think that it is illegal to create your own coinage as long as you don't pass it off as legal tender.

Otherwise subway tokens and arcade tokens would be highly illegal.

If the fed wants to be pissed at someone, blame Canada, hell their coinage looks almost exactly like US coins.

This looks like a trumped up charge to me to basically steal these peoples supplies of gold and silver.



posted on Jun, 5 2009 @ 06:26 PM
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reply to post by whatukno
 





This looks like a trumped up charge to me to basically steal these peoples supplies of gold and silver.


That's exactly what i'm thinking. They saw that someone had something they wanted and decided to do an end-run around the Fourth Amendment.

People invest in gold every day. There are commercials advertising places that will help you to do just that all over the airwaves. These people aren't criminals, they're marks in the property forfeiture scam.


TA



posted on Jun, 5 2009 @ 06:45 PM
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I suppose this has something to do with allowing the government to keep the gold and silver they confiscated. I sure don't read anything about government agents going to the various towns that I have read about where they print various barter paper money. I guess because there is no gold or silver to back up the barter paper money. These sorts of currency are used because the residents of these towns and communities "believe" there is value to this currency. Hmmmmm.......sort of like using American dollars.



posted on Jun, 5 2009 @ 06:50 PM
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In my humble opinion, its not about the material siezed, it's about control.
If we all start printing our own currency then the fed will have absolutely no control over our money. They won't be able to track for taxes, they won't be able to target who is making what for why. . .

As long as we have to rely on them for our money we will remain slaves to the system.

Fight the system! -sheesh- never thought I'd hear that from me.
Instead of uh. . .um. . . fight. . . uh. . . argue the system! Yeah!
And for any Fed Agent tracking this sight, don't blame me. My neighbor has been hording dry socks and cans of beans. . . go get him instead.



posted on Jun, 5 2009 @ 07:02 PM
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Interesting.

When they are done prosecuting these people maybe they should go after an entire town for printing their own money.

abcnews.go.com...



What difference will it ultimately make?

Unless there are major changes in the course this country is on the US dollar could end up nearly worthless.



posted on Jun, 5 2009 @ 07:12 PM
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The reason the Feds are having a fit is simple.

The coins, in silver and gold are inflation proof.

Federal Reserve notes are like toilet paper.

The Federal Reserve can have no competition for their increasingly valueless currency.

After all, what does it say of a government whose currency is worthless, and a private coinage which will ever hold its value?



posted on Jun, 5 2009 @ 07:15 PM
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reply to post by dooper
 



Excellent point.

Really.


[edit on 5-6-2009 by mikerussellus]



posted on Jun, 5 2009 @ 08:18 PM
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The major drug traffickers are switching to gems and precious metals converted from cash before large payments are made from regional drug sales. They have lost faith in the almighty dollar. That should tell you something.

Besides shipping millions in $20 and $100 bills is hard, it is bulky weighs a lot and is hard to conceal.

When the drug lords dump their unlaundered dollars for a loss in exchange for gems and precious metals, the government should get concerned.

Maybe the drug lords can come up with their own currency backed by gold, silver etc. they already have the distribution networks in place to get it going. While they are at it they should establish their own central bank and financial markets.




posted on Jun, 5 2009 @ 09:18 PM
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I think dooper may be right:


Welcome to the Liberty Dollar: Remember when gas was only 25-cents a gallon? You could take a dollar down to the gas station and buy four gallons for a buck! At that time our dollar was backed by silver - real money. Guess what? That same amount of silver still buys four gallons of gas today! That just proves that real money like gold and silver holds its value and it is the US dollar that buys less and less. As a matter of fact, when you think about it, you realize that gas, food, and almost everything else has NOT gotten more expensive. It only seems that way because the value of the US dollar is worth less and less so it takes more and more of them to buy the same goods and services. Most people think prices have gone up, but actually: it is the value of the US dollar that has gone down. Luckily, there is a simple and profitable solution to higher inflation - good old-fashioned, gold and silver Liberty Dollars, just as our Founding Fathers intended. Look at these charts by the US government
source


In addition to wanting an excuse to seize precious metals, they want to scare off the competition. If we all started exchanging gold coins instead of US Dollars, the fed would be gone in no time flat.


TA



posted on Jun, 5 2009 @ 09:34 PM
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reply to post by getreadyalready
 



they are guaranteeing that noone will be able to print money, expect themselves (FEDR). Thus guaranteeing themselves a necessary role in whatever future the US has. They believe themselves to be gods among men with their magical abilities to print money out of thin air.


[sarcasm]
We all need magicians like that, don't we? And in exchange for their services we willingly do their bidding.
[/sarcasm]


do we really need the FEDR? nope, in fact everything was peachy keen till they showed up. funny that.






posted on Jun, 6 2009 @ 10:58 AM
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reply to post by getreadyalready
 


Well put...they have no right and it looks just like a gold/grab.
Where are they talking all this gold to ??



posted on Jun, 6 2009 @ 11:21 AM
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ASHEVILLE — Federal authorities arrested an Asheville man in what they said was a scheme to undermine the U.S. currency system and defraud consumers with so-called Liberty Dollars.



William Kevin Innes marketed the “barter” currency in Western North Carolina and recruited merchants willing to accept it and give it as change for products bought with real money, according to an indictment unsealed this week.




Despite warnings from the federal government to the contrary, Innes told the Citizen-Times in 2006 that Liberty Dollars were legal.

“One of the first things I did when I started this in Asheville was go to the police and tell them what I was doing,” he said then.




Innes held the title of North Carolina regional currency officer and was one of three members of the group's executive committee, the indictment states.

A 2007 affidavit said more than 70 businesses in the Asheville area agreed to accept the Liberty Dollar.



You can read the whole article here. There were businesses here that did take the Liberty dollar as currency. I myself have never seen one, I don't think.

www.citizen-times.com...



posted on Jun, 8 2009 @ 09:53 AM
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The only way those charges should stick is if they advertised it as legal tender or were caught selling it as legal tender. Or if they tryed to pass it as legal tender at a store. Anyone is free to mint metal and call it what they want as far as I knew anyhow. Ive never looked it up but if you try and say its legal tender you commited fraud, if you dont its just a for of trade. Being backed by gold and silver he stood to make some very real money and if you have a big enough company you might just end up replacing the US fiat currency they cant have that you know.

Youd have to get a certain amount of stores on board to take your trade money, then after that you could go nation wide and replace the US Dollar, and that would destroy the system. It would take the government completely our of power. Boy wouldnt that be funny, its a really good idea.



posted on Jun, 8 2009 @ 10:04 AM
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After reading the long article over this the only violation I can see is if the stores themselves pushed this off as logal tender giving change to people. I dont think if Liberty Dollar explained properly to the store owners this would happen. If it did then the stores are at fault not the makers of Liberty Dollar. Youre allowed to barter it makes no sense why they are attacking these guys other than they know it would end them and their false system.



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