How Many Races Are There?

Objectively speaking. Consider the sicle cell. I believe the different races
(for lack of a better word)
were spread out across the Globe away from each other for a reason.
They were not meant to mingle.
Just another one of mans many near sighted mistakes due to a lack of
Guidance.
Dare anyone to say we don't need guidance.
I disagree.

SnF
Great topic






[edit on 1-1-2010 by randyvs]

Originally posted by Skyfloating
Im still not seeing the problem with calling different races different races. It doesnt make me a racist to say "The African Race is a different Race than the Chinese Race", does it?

Yes... that's exactly what I'm saying. Biological conditions which cause physical changes over thousands of years does not equate seperate races. Diet, exposure to sunlight, high elevations etc., lead to eventual changes in the biology of those affected. If a long lineage of your ancestors lived in Peru, for instance, you would have the lung capacity to deal with the thin air at high altitudes. You would not, though, be a seperate race because of it.

The term 'race' has come to supplant those biological/cultural differences. It is exactly that which is the topic of this thread. Read the Opening Post again... it spells it out quite nicely.

The willingness by some to continue the false notion of different 'races' through the banal application of biology and geography only confuses things. Is a Japanese a different race than a Chinese or a Siberian? Is a Mayan a seperate race than a Cree? Can an Iranian be distinguished from a Greek?

The divisions can become very complicated indeed. Paring them down to a 'grab-bag' of a half-dozen Uber-races is too general by far and, at its best, nothing but... er, divisive.

We'd do well to get rid of the ideology altogether. It seems as certain cultures which bore the brunt of the colonial racism may soon be ascendant on the global scene. Perhaps it might be best if we buried such notions lest they come back to bite us in the ass.

Just saying...


[edit on 1/1/10 by masqua]

Originally posted by masqua
Perhaps it might be best if we buried such notions lest they come back to bite us in the ass.

Or just for the simple reason that we know better now. What is the point of learning if it doesn't change us?

Originally posted by shamhat
What is the point of learning if it doesn't change us?

Only time will cause people to learn this. When I see comments reflecting the notion that there are seperate races in the most public places... television, newspapers, blogs and even here on ATS, I can't help but wonder how long it will take before the ideology actually fades into obscurity.

'Race' has been transported into the realm of the benign, where it denotes the 4 distinct colour differences (white, black, red, yellow) as race and ignores every shade in between. Until the day comes when everyone, through marraige and the ability to live anywhere in the world, this 'modern' idea of 'skin colour=race' will probably remain resolute in the minds of those who prefer to distinguish others as 'seperate' from themselves.

It makes them feel special.

Originally posted by ChemBreather
too many , and too many humans ... thats for sure ...

When we stop caring we just shouldnt care about any thing else either, some dumb Race else where , what , who cares, they are prolly smarter than us any hows , amoeba or not.

two americans are in trial and used for Bargains with US and no one frggn cares ??? they are Hostages by North Korea , and lets talk Pingiuns FFS :!

Let them die, just worthless americans ....

I just lost all respect for you, nobody is worthless... no matter what nationality. Races have nothing to do with where you're from.

Originally posted by Estharik
Races have nothing to do with where you're from.

When it comes to people, there are only races in which we compete, like the Olympics.

Originally posted by masqua
Answer? One.

Wherever I go, I hear people using the word 'race' as if it's a fact that there are seperate races. I hear it on the nightly news, in movies, on the radio, in conversations and even here on ATS. If we're going to try to deny ignorance, then we should at least attempt to understand where the notion of seperate races originally came from.


The Idea of Races

"Race" first appeared in the English language around the 17th century. North Americans began to use the term in their scientific writings by the late 18th century. Racism was developed and popularized by scientists in the 19th century, as they were regarded as purveyors of truth. At the time this ideology also explained political and economic conflicts in various parts of the world and legitimized the dominant role of British capitalism in the world economic system. Racism is universal and is evident in many different ethno-racial groups. It is not limited to white groups.
By the mid-19th century, there was general agreement that the worlds population could be divided into a variety of races: groups of people who shared similar phenotypical attributes, eg, skin colour, hair texture. This process of race categorization is referred to as racialization and is necessary for the emergence of racism as an ideology.

www.thecanadianencyclopedia.com...

So there you have it. There are no different races at all and it has its roots in the false notion of superiority. What makes people different, one from the other, is diet, geographical location and society. There is no white race, no black race, no yellow race and no red race either. There are only human beings.

Recently I read a thread where a poster declared a particular race was prone to criminal activity. The member was adamant that this was so and all one had to do was look at the prison population or crime statistics.

That is textbook racism

1 : a belief that race is the primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race
2 : racial prejudice or discrimination

www.merriam-webster.com...

It has nothing to do with biological differences and everything to do with societal inequality. Suppression through discrimination is what causes poverty and poverty is the primary cause of criminal activity.

I agree wholeheartedly. I am a CGI artist and it is so difficult for a minority such as myself to get into the field. White majority dominate it. Racism has never truly died. It is mainly though in the professional realm and its political correctness term is now called favoritism. We were all once one color till the annunaki separated us to divide us.

Thanks to a thread; Is abortion a matter of race? by a member of ATS, we can see that racial division is still being used by CNN, a worldwide leader of the Main Stream Media.

This is the main reason why, instead of fading away into obscurity as it should, racism is actually on the increase.

[sarcasm]

"Black children are an endangered species" on a billboard and CNN parroting the idea by announcing a 'Race Debate'.

[/sarcasm]

:shk:

Originally posted by masqua

Originally posted by Skyfloating
Im still not seeing the problem with calling different races different races. It doesnt make me a racist to say "The African Race is a different Race than the Chinese Race", does it?

Yes... that's exactly what I'm saying. Biological conditions which cause physical changes over thousands of years does not equate seperate races. Diet, exposure to sunlight, high elevations etc., lead to eventual changes in the biology of those affected. If a long lineage of your ancestors lived in Peru, for instance, you would have the lung capacity to deal with the thin air at high altitudes. You would not, though, be a seperate race because of it.

The term 'race' has come to supplant those biological/cultural differences. It is exactly that which is the topic of this thread. Read the Opening Post again... it spells it out quite nicely.

The willingness by some to continue the false notion of different 'races' through the banal application of biology and geography only confuses things. Is a Japanese a different race than a Chinese or a Siberian? Is a Mayan a seperate race than a Cree? Can an Iranian be distinguished from a Greek?

The divisions can become very complicated indeed. Paring them down to a 'grab-bag' of a half-dozen Uber-races is too general by far and, at its best, nothing but... er, divisive.

We'd do well to get rid of the ideology altogether. It seems as certain cultures which bore the brunt of the colonial racism may soon be ascendant on the global scene. Perhaps it might be best if we buried such notions lest they come back to bite us in the ass.

Just saying...


[edit on 1/1/10 by masqua]

I agree. 'race' is a word created by culture. It is a social construct. It's meaningless unless we act upon the meaning society gives it.

OP, allow me to be the devil's advocate.

For my work I drive all over my city. I have access to a map containing data points representing crime statistics. I know from this map the neighborhoods in which most of the local crimes are committed. Without exception these are black neighborhoods.

So, should I not notice when I am in those neighborhoods that the people there are mostly black? Would it be racist of me to lock my car doors when driving through? Should I intentionally drop my guard in these neighborhoods and allow criminals a better chance to victimize me?

The point of this is that race is not an imaginary construct because it represents real differences which are important to our survival. I can not not notice these differences, unless I have no fear of death or injury. I can not not teach my family about these differences unless I am willing to sacrifice them for the sake of political correctness.

So then if I want to make my family safe, but I am shamed by societal political pressures to not recognize race, what can I do? Well, I suppose I could do what you suggest and banish the word "race" from my vocabulary. But would I not then need to invent other ways of conveying the same information? In this sense, is your argument that people should consider race meaningless just a way to censor language in order to convince them to alter their behaviors? How exactly does this contribute to the overall knowledge level? Deny ignorance?

Originally posted by Grumble
So then if I want to make my family safe, but I am shamed by societal political pressures to not recognize race, what can I do? Well, I suppose I could do what you suggest and banish the word "race" from my vocabulary. But would I not then need to invent other ways of conveying the same information? In this sense, is your argument that people should consider race meaningless just a way to censor language in order to convince them to alter their behaviors? How exactly does this contribute to the overall knowledge level? Deny ignorance?

The problem is not 'race' but 'ethnic' division. It's a tribal instinct to band together with those who are like yourself and that is part of the problem and one which we have made for ourselves. It's not races that divide us, it's our ethnic roots. The Irish were despised when they poured onto America's eastern shores in much the same way that the Chinese were in the west. French hated the English and vice versa. It's always been that way, but the idea of 'races' is fairly new, as the OP points out. It wasn't that the Norse were a seperate race invading Britain just the same as the Romans weren't. They were 'tribes'.

There is good reason to be nervous about going into areas where you are not wanted. Consider driving onto a reservation... unless you were Cree, Blackfoot, Hopi (etc), wouldn't you feel out of place there too? Does that have anything to do with an ethnic division?

The fact remains that there are not any seperate races. The problem is that people of various origins are either willing to stay away from, or pushed away from, other ethnic groups. If one needs to define a people as a group, then stick with ethnicity. Call the Chinese Chinese, not the 'yellow race', because then you'd have to include Koreans, Vietnamese, Japanese and all the others which have that particular skin colour.

It's the same for blacks. There are quite a few countries that they originate from and there are huge physical differences between them too... Somali, Kalahari Bushmen, Taureg and so on. Should they be mini-races among the 'black' community? I don't think so, because you'd be dividing forever.

Let's go on to whites... is it right to call them a 'race' when the diversity among them is also widespread, with many physical differences?

In regard to crime statistics and how it relates to skin colour, I believe there may be some historical factors at play too, but I'd rather not get into that in this thread.

Originally posted by Grumble
OP, allow me to be the devil's advocate.

For my work I drive all over my city. I have access to a map containing data points representing crime statistics. I know from this map the neighborhoods in which most of the local crimes are committed. Without exception these are black neighborhoods.

So, should I not notice when I am in those neighborhoods that the people there are mostly black? Would it be racist of me to lock my car doors when driving through? Should I intentionally drop my guard in these neighborhoods and allow criminals a better chance to victimize me?

The point of this is that race is not an imaginary construct because it represents real differences which are important to our survival. I can not not notice these differences, unless I have no fear of death or injury. I can not not teach my family about these differences unless I am willing to sacrifice them for the sake of political correctness.

So then if I want to make my family safe, but I am shamed by societal political pressures to not recognize race, what can I do? Well, I suppose I could do what you suggest and banish the word "race" from my vocabulary. But would I not then need to invent other ways of conveying the same information? In this sense, is your argument that people should consider race meaningless just a way to censor language in order to convince them to alter their behaviors? How exactly does this contribute to the overall knowledge level? Deny ignorance?

Race is a social construct.... You are fearing a low socioeconomic status, not the race. It would be just as important to lock your doors if a pile of white thugs came out the door too. But there's a long history involved in how certain ethnicities took to a disadvantage. So yeah, race is still meaningless-race didnt cause a criminal -inequalities did.

Originally posted by ZerraRace is a social construct.... You are fearing a low socioeconomic status, not the race. It would be just as important to lock your doors if a pile of white thugs came out the door too. But there's a long history involved in how certain ethnicities took to a disadvantage. So yeah, race is still meaningless-race didnt cause a criminal -inequalities did.

Thank you spelling out what so may fail to understand.

Colour doesn't signify race, it signifies ethnic origins.
Crime isn't related to race, it's related to social stigma.

Race is a social construct, just as you say.

War, Racism and the Empire of Poverty
When Empire Hits Home, Part 1

www.globalresearch.ca...

[...]

Bacon’s Rebellion of 1676 was of particular note, as bond-labourers, black and white, rebelled against the local elites and “demanded freedom from chattel servitude.” For the colonialists, “Such images of a joint uprising of black and white, slave and bondsman, proved traumatic. In the face of a united rebellion of the lower orders, the planter bourgeoisie understood that their entire system of colonial exploitation and privilege was at risk.”[5]



In response to this threat, the landed elite “relaxed the servitude of white labourers, intensified the bonds of black slavery, and introduced a new regime of racial oppression. In doing so, they effectively created the white race – and with it white supremacy.”[6] Thus, “the conditions of white and black servants began to diverge considerably after 1660.” Following this, legislation would separate white and black slavery, prevent “mixed” marriages, and seek to prevent the procreation of “mixed-race” children. Whereas before 1660, many black slaves were not indentured for life, this changed as colonial law increasingly “imposed lifetime bondage for black servants – and, especially significant, the curse of lifetime servitude for their offspring.”[7]



A central feature of the social construction of this racial divide was “the denial of the right to vote,” as most Anglo-American colonies previously allowed free blacks to vote, but this slowly changed throughout the colonies. The ruling class of America was essentially “inventing race.” Thus, “Freedom was increasingly identified with race, not class.”[8]

Expediency created racism: seperating, dividing and conquering.

It is out of this that ideas of race and later, ‘race science’ emerged, as eugenics became the dominant ideology of western elites, trying to scientifically ‘prove’ the superiority of ‘whites’ and the ‘inferiority’ of ‘blacks’. This would carry a dual nature of justifying white domination, as well as providing both a justification for and excuse to oppress black people, and in fact, people of all ‘races’. This was especially clear as in the late 1800s and early 1900s the European empires undertook the ‘Scramble for Africa’ in which they colonized the entire continent (save Ethiopia). It was largely justified as a ‘civilizing’ mission; yet, it was fundamentally about gaining access to Africa’s vast resources.

Please go on to read the full article as it covers the Industrial Military Complex, how wars benefit the rich and why poverty is good for war.

OP, my thoughts exactly. 1 race, that's it. it's called humans. one species, as long as we can breed among each other. even if we couldn't is that in itself enough of a reason for wars and hatred? how about killing your own kind? how primitive...

Originally posted by Grumble
OP, allow me to be the devil's advocate.

For my work I drive all over my city. I have access to a map containing data points representing crime statistics. I know from this map the neighborhoods in which most of the local crimes are committed. Without exception these are black neighborhoods.


How do you draw that conclusion. Have you done a legitimate field study to back your assumption up? No.

So, should I not notice when I am in those neighborhoods that the people there are mostly black? Would it be racist of me to lock my car doors when driving through? Should I intentionally drop my guard in these neighborhoods and allow criminals a better chance to victimize me?


So you go through a high crime neighborhood regularly enough to know they are mostly black occupied? Are you making that up? Its not racist to lock your door if you find legitimate statistics of high crime in an area of town. It is racially arrogant and bigotted to lock your door because you see black people. One is backed up by facts the other by unconscious xenophobia and racism.

The point of this is that race is not an imaginary construct because it represents real differences which are important to our survival. I can not not notice these differences, unless I have no fear of death or injury. I can not not teach my family about these differences unless I am willing to sacrifice them for the sake of political correctness.


What differences? Black people have a crime gene or something? I think chronically poor people are desperate enough to have more to gain at crime vs middle class familys that don't need to steal or hustle. Just a thought.

So then if I want to make my family safe, but I am shamed by societal political pressures to not recognize race, what can I do?


Stop thinking the cause is thier race and start thinking about the economic bracket they live in. How many people in the suburbs are slanging crack for money or prostituting thier own kids for money or killing competition to thier interprize to protect their drug market or robbing people for money? No too many right? They don't need to they have WAY better/more reliable/safer means of getting money.

Well, I suppose I could do what you suggest and banish the word "race" from my vocabulary.
you can if you want I could care less
But would I not then need to invent other ways of conveying the same information? Its not race is class buddy...
In this sense, is your argument that people should consider race meaningless just a way to censor language in order to convince them to alter their behaviors?
huh? more paranoid delusion. No one attacking you man...lol
How exactly does this contribute to the overall knowledge level?
What?
Deny ignorance?
Yeah you do that...

Between One and 8 billion depending on what angle you want to look at it from
kx

reply to post by masqua


So, there is only one race: the human race. But there are several different breeds (to borrow a term from my other favorite mammal)?

It is obvious that there are differences in the different peoples of the world. The word chosen to describe it, "race", is apparently a misnomer. But it doesn't change the fact that there are differences in people.

I am half Hungarian, and the rest is a wild mix of European and Amerind. I prefer the hispanic/Amerind people over most other people, but it is mostly because of where i have lived my whole life and my human desire for familiarity. My wife is my beautiful Mayan princess.

But part of what attracts me to her are the differences. Physical (dark hair/eyes, brown skin) and cultural (ever seen a bunch of senoritas at a dance? WHEW!)

There are differences. We can call it "race", "breed", "nationality", "culture"....but to deny these differences is to ask people to act unnaturally.

reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan


Ethnic diversity is beautiful. My roots are a perfect match to those I found in my wife.

She and her family may initially be from a different part of the world than I came from and we may look quite different, but she's from no seperate race of humans or we would never have been able to raise children.

You can breed a poodle to a pug, but you can't breed a pig to a platypus.

Originally posted by bigfatfurrytexan
reply to post by masqua

 

So, there is only one race: the human race. But there are several different breeds (to borrow a term from my other favorite mammal)?

It is obvious that there are differences in the different peoples of the world. The word chosen to describe it, "race", is apparently a misnomer. But it doesn't change the fact that there are differences in people.

I am half Hungarian, and the rest is a wild mix of European and Amerind. I prefer the hispanic/Amerind people over most other people, but it is mostly because of where i have lived my whole life and my human desire for familiarity. My wife is my beautiful Mayan princess.

But part of what attracts me to her are the differences. Physical (dark hair/eyes, brown skin) and cultural (ever seen a bunch of senoritas at a dance? WHEW!)

There are differences. We can call it "race", "breed", "nationality", "culture"....but to deny these differences is to ask people to act unnaturally.

What differences? Name a few?