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Russia accuses Poland of starting Second World War

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posted on Jun, 5 2009 @ 02:34 PM
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Russia accuses Poland of starting Second World War


www.telegraph.co.uk

The Russian defence ministry posted a potentially inflammatory essay on its website which claimed Poland resisted Germany's ultimatums in 1939 only because it "wanted to obtain the status of a great power".

The lengthy diatribe, which is unlikely to be welcomed in Warsaw, also lashed out at Britain and France for giving the Poles "delusions of grandeur" by promising to intercede if the Nazis invaded.

(visit the link for the full news article)




posted on Jun, 5 2009 @ 02:34 PM
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LOL

This is sure to make quite a few friends...

Sounds like the opinion of letting people be dominated and enslaved is alive and well abroad.

Basically it sounds as if they are saying "they should have just bent to the nazi's will".

Some of the stuff that comes from government officials makes me wonder if these people are even human...

www.telegraph.co.uk
(visit the link for the full news article)



posted on Jun, 5 2009 @ 03:22 PM
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There is some crack smokin goin on in the russian govt. these days.

line 2



posted on Jun, 5 2009 @ 03:32 PM
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Its actually true.. kind of.

Its well documented that the Poles gassed approx 60,000 Germans in a concentration camp before Hitler created the Reichstag false flag and invaded them .. noone ever really brings it up though because its "taboo, anti democratic, anti capitalism and anti sematic" to question the "facts" that the west has put forward to do with Nazi Germany.

Europe was one f*@ked up place back then.. eugenics, ethnic cleansing, anti semitism.. basically tribal warfare between superpowers. Insanity IMO. 120 million odd people dead in the space of 30 odd years speaks for itself really.

Looking at it from a different perspective, you have to admit that if another country killed 60,000 of your countrymen, you would react.. I mean, the US lost 4000 odd in a terrorist attack and invaded half the middle east.. and the body count there is pretty disgraceful as well.

With the Nazi's, everyone immediately thinks Hitler was just an evil megalomaniac while there was an awful awful awful lot more to the story than that but its never brought up because the winners write History.


[edit on 5/6/09 by Dermo]



posted on Jun, 5 2009 @ 03:39 PM
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reply to post by Dermo
 
You are quite right. Germany was very harshly treated following the WW1 and much of the Silesia and Prussia was taken and given to this new Poland, it's no wonder the Germans were a little miffed. Same in Czech, the German population was demonised by the Slavs.



posted on Jun, 5 2009 @ 03:39 PM
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So since Poland attacked Germany the USSR saw fit to not only invade Poland, but also Latvia, Lithuania, Estonia, Romania, and Finland. The Russians should be careful folks might begin remembering whom they sided with before they were invaded by the Nazis.



posted on Jun, 5 2009 @ 03:50 PM
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Originally posted by ufoorbhunter
the German population was demonised by the Slavs.


Exactly, thats why the Nazi's began to dispose of Slavs, the amount of Slavs and Poles that were cleansed by the Nazis in retribution dwarves the amount killed in the Jewish Holocaust. A crazy time to be alive in that area of the world.



The Russians should be careful folks might begin remembering whom they sided with before they were invaded by the Nazis.


Haha, yea, but they have the whole "We had a dictator as well" argument. Not a bad argument either lol.



posted on Jun, 5 2009 @ 04:10 PM
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Originally posted by Dermo
Its well documented that the Poles gassed approx 60,000 Germans in a concentration camp before Hitler created the Reichstag false flag and invaded them .
[edit on 5/6/09 by Dermo]


Well documented? Show us some links to reliable sources please.

I would like to check the accuracy of that.



posted on Jun, 5 2009 @ 04:13 PM
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IMO every leaderof Russia is a dictator, he just has a nicer title. Look at Chechnya, It's a break away republic, yet is dictated by Russia under the grounds of "terror" Look at Georgia..same scenario..Look at Afghanistan in the 80's a bit different, but still notice the trend..they are all break away republics of the former SU. Russia still likes to keep it's people in the dark, and try to maintain it's dominance on former SU countries.

Every act of violence that is war related is under the BS title against "terror"

I can personally attest to Afghanistan, those people have heart, they want their land, they want their independence. Now the Taliban is pleasing alot of people, including Russia, they're keeping the afghans under strict rule in alot of parts and Russia likes that. Why do you think all the taliban's weapons are of post 1980 Russian manufacture.



posted on Jun, 5 2009 @ 04:38 PM
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Originally posted by neformore
Well documented? Show us some links to reliable sources please.

I would like to check the accuracy of that.


By well documented, I mean, its well documented if you have an interest. As I said, the winners write history. A friend of mine introduced me to a wealth of information on the origins of the war and the region at the time.. It was all online but I cant remember the sites.. Ill see what I can do about the proper links he has and post them up for you.. for now you will have to do with this.

I typed in this into google.. "poland murdered germans 1939".. and hit search.

This is just one clear and as history of the time goes, non bias account of the build up to the invasion. Its hard to find any decent information about the period.

Source


Some 35,000 of them(German authorities then claimed 58,000 murdered Germans!) were murdered, often under the most bestial circumstances.


My apologies.. I also bought the lies.. it was 35000, not 60000.. my bad. The point remains.



posted on Jun, 5 2009 @ 04:49 PM
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Great. So now it finally should be known that real monsters who started WW2 are not efficient manager Stalin and his twin, proud nationalist Hitler, but evil and murderous Czechoslovakian, Polish, Finnish, Estonian, Latvian and Lithuanian leaders. They gassed millions of Germans and Soviets in well known obscure concentration camps. This is the source for Stalin's and Hitler's self-defense approach. All well known and well-documented, i am sure.

Actually it is sad, not funny. Poles are no angels, but compared to Nazi Germany ....
Or Soviet Union ....
they were pretty much normal.



posted on Jun, 5 2009 @ 04:59 PM
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reply to post by Dermo
 


Were are Polish concentration camps for Germans? All i read was Nazi numbers of dead ethnical Germans in Poland in 1939 war. And Nazis never lied of course. With graphic description of how Poland and Britain planned to attack Germany. And it is the truth of course.

All those newspaper examples written by headline-seeking Journalists (aka Poland should annex Silesia or "Judea declared war on Germany") are just grotesk in comparison to what Nazi leadership actually DID. So all the twisting and pulling the facts by modern representatives of those two sides who planned and started the war is very very transperant.



posted on Jun, 5 2009 @ 05:03 PM
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reply to post by ZeroKnowledge
 


Yea, just reread that myself and it doesn't really add up.. ill track down those links and post em asap. Nip this in the bud lol.
Obviously myself and the Russians are completely mad lol



posted on Jun, 5 2009 @ 05:08 PM
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Actually it is sad, not funny. Poles are no angels, but compared to Nazi Germany ....
Or Soviet Union ....
they were pretty much normal.


You are picking this up completely wrong.. how hard is it to believe that Germans would have been ethnically cleansed by the Poles after ww1 and this in turn helped towards creating the Nazi monster. Eugenics and cleansing were rife all over that area of Europe during that time.

Noone's justifying what the Nazi's did.. just offering a small incite into extra history and info that very few people talk about.

As I said before.. Its a taboo and I expected to get slated as soon as i posted anything about it.

[edit on 5/6/09 by Dermo]



posted on Jun, 5 2009 @ 05:26 PM
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Actually, to be fair, the article was taken down and Russian ministry of defense claimed that it is not official position of Russia but an opinion posted on its site.
So the world is not mad. Yet.
politicom.moldova.org...
Dermo:
I do not doubt for a second that as result of WW1 and especially WW2 a lot of ethnic Germans suffered due to nationalistic/racist movements in Eastern Europe.
But i am 100 percent sure that nobody was gassed in Polish concentration camps.
Also i am 100 percent sure that all those Germans ethnically cleansed combined
are not even close to number of Germans killed in WW2 due to Hitler's direct actions. So he did not act to protect Germans. He acted to build great Reich and used every incident to achieve it. But he never cared for Germans. Sending boys to fight Soviet tanks when all was surely lost just to gain time for Nazi officials to escape kind of shows what it all was about.



posted on Jun, 5 2009 @ 05:40 PM
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reply to post by ZeroKnowledge
 


I get what you are saying.. Look, im not going to argue about it without the links to where I read the info, as soon as i get my hands on them, ill post them up. Seeing as its a friday night and the dude who definitely knows them has a life and is probably out, it will have to wait.



posted on Jun, 5 2009 @ 06:30 PM
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Nazi takeover of various countries were for technological reasons.
Yeah, Germany had a lot but that didn't matter.
Also the Gold reason but no Gold in Poland so there must have been
more as the road to conquer Russia did not go through Poland.
Russia's conquest of Germany came through Poland.
So sounds like a Russian lie to cover the real reason.



posted on Jun, 5 2009 @ 06:36 PM
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reply to post by DimensionalDetective
 
Actually that's the truth, regardless you like it or not. The place where the events started was called as the Danzig corridor (Google it.). The Polish Bolsheviks massacred 58000 germans before September 1, 1939. That's why the Germans moved into Poland to take revenge for the dead civilians. That was the second reason why the Jewish people were hunted by the Germans as most of the Polish Bolsheviks were Jewish people. The first reason why they were hunted was their War Declaration against Germany in 1933, but that's another story.

So, the Russians are right in this matter. WW2 was started there and not by the Germans.

It would be nice if some of you would start to learn the real history and not just the faked one.

[edit on 5-6-2009 by ShadowIntelligence]



posted on Jun, 5 2009 @ 08:05 PM
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From the source:


Poland’s foreign ministry said it would summon Russia’s ambassador to Warsaw to demand an explanation, as the allegations showed signs of triggering a major row between the two countries.
reply to post by DimensionalDetective
 


This is probably why this little dispute has surfaced. Russia is PO'd at Poland, no doubt. The reason? Poland is becoming very friendly with the US and is asking for more US aid (see Poland expects same U.S arms aid as other allies) Russia is offended and fears a US- Poland coalition.

Russia has few options but to threaten Poland as it did recently with Georgia. This document is simply a threat, whether or not it has any historical base, it is a threat.

Russis has always been insecure about its military vulnerability and is always thinking of where an attack could come. Traditionally Russian invasions have come from Europe across the northern Poland plains including the Danzig Corridor. Tanks can advance very rapidly across this terrain! Russia is paranoid and fears it could happen again.

Why wouldn't it happen again? The attack would have to come from Germany or the EU. Neither have the appetite for armed conflict. WWII completely stripped the aggression from them. Not a possibility. But Russia fears the US and any attempt the US is making to firm up relations with Poland and establish missile defense facilities there as we are presently doing. Never mind the fact that Barrack Obama looks and acts like a non aggressive European Marxist and not much of a threat. The Russians will never let down their guard and allow the US association to form without a fight.

I see a firm alliance between Poland and the US for strategic reasons that will last far into the 21st century as a buffer against both Russian and Turkish expansion.



posted on Jun, 6 2009 @ 01:38 AM
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reply to post by ZeroKnowledge
 


Thanks to Shadow Intelligence for making me NOT look like an absolute twat.. still havent found those links but there is a wealth of information when you search "Danzig Corridor" in Google..

One site states..

The 1939 Danzig Massacres

The Polish Bolsheviks kill 58,000 German Nationals in the Danzig corridor In the months leading up to the German invasion the Polish Army and independent Bolshevik units had been slaughtering German nationals in the Danzig corridor. Mass killings of thousands of civilian ethnic Germans (Volksdeutsche) by both civilian and Russian NDVK Jews, who were confident that Poland would quickly defeat Germany. Many apparently expected to take possession of German farms and businesses. An estimated 58,000 German civilians lost their lives in the massacres carried out prior to the 1939 invasion.


While it doesn't say they were gassed, I will have to find those links to show you that fact.. I know you probably won't want to believe any of this as the Nazi's are depicted as the bringers of doom and the evil of all evils of the period but believe me, I got a serious shock when I found out about this also, it turns the history of the time on its head and gives the Nazi's justification for starting the war.. not what they did during it.

As I said, History is written by the winners.

Also, sometimes I wonder what people are even doing on this website when they cannot even fathom making an effort to wrap their heads around an idea that is both extremely possible and actually makes sense.. simply because it is not in mainstream history.


[edit on 6/6/09 by Dermo]



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