In Buchenwald, Obama to target Holocaust denial

The Holocaust Denial industry is one of those things that make me feel like I am living in Bizarro world its like up is down and down is up. I have found that Holocaust Deniers fall into to three main catagories.

1. Judeophobes (I dont use the term anti Semite as there folks other than Jewish that are Semites)(KKK and certain so called christians)

2. Naziphiles (Who for some reason seem to think the Nazi Third Reich is a good thing and seek to rehabilitate Adolph Hitler and his Ilk in the eyes of the world)(StormFront and various Neo Nazi groups)
3. Activist Moslem Leaders (Who use Holocaust denial to rally thier people against Israel.) (Ahmadinejad and the Muslim Brotherhood.)

As someone who has actually walked the grounds at Dachau and seen the ovens,lampshades made of human skin and clothing made of human hair I have to seriously question the sanity of those involved in the denial of this immense human tragedy. While Dachau wasnt a Jewish Death Camp it was the prototype that the Nazi used in constructing other camps, Dachau was a camp that housed resistance fighters , clergy, homosexuals and other enemies of the Reich, While I would never be one to take away from some one the ability to Deny the Holocaust as I am a firm believer in free speech and thought, Truthfully by letting the Denier speak and write thier revised histories they expose themselves for the frauds and haters that they are and it is a good thing that right minded people can see them.

Previously in this thread it has been stated that there were only 6 million Jewish folks in Europe in 1939. This can be proven false by picking up any world almanac of the time period in question. Even the Nazis who were meticulous in thier record keeping put the number at 11 million in Nazi Occupied territory in 1942. You can see this by the minutes of the Wannsee Conference held in 1942. Most sources will place the numbers of the European Jeish population at 9.5-10 million.

The Wannsee Conference

The Holocaust

In 1950 there were approximately 3.5-4 million Jewish folks in remaining in Europe. So where did these Jewish folks go to?. To use Nazi terminolgy they were evacuated , used as slave labor , gassed , shot and buried in mass graves or burned in crematoria. Read your history speak to survivors and to the soldiers that liberated these camps. Also now you can look through 50 million pages of Nazi documents that were opened to the public in 2006.

Revisiting The Horrors Of The Holocaust

Germany Agrees to Open Holocaust Archive

One of the tactics used by the Holocaust Denier is the fact that more folks of other groups were killed by the Nazis, they will freely admit that the Nazis killed over 11 million Slavics, Gypsies, Communists, Witches , Mason, Astrologers, Homosexuals , Clergy and many others. The only number they will ever call into questions is the figure of 6 million Jewish folks. To deny an anti Jewish agenda on the part of the Holocaust denier is to be part of the insanty ourselves.


If someone denied that African Americans were slaves in the United States would we take this person seriously?

If someone denied the Bataan Death March took place or the Rape of Nanking took place would we take them seriously.

Would we deny that European colonialism in the New World resulted in the Death of between 10 million and 20 million Native Americans on 2 continents?


If you want to oppose the policies of the Israeli Government then oppose them based on the merits, do not bring the Holocaust into it, you have lost the arguement against the Israeli government as soon as a denial of the Holocaust comes into play.

reply to post by DarkStormCrow

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You basically summed up what I meant to say in my previous post.

However, your post was more detailed, better worded and backed up by many accurate facts. Great post. Starred.

just as an interesting aside, does anyone know what the Jewish population of Israel (or the area now known as Israel) between the end ww2 and the early 50s?

My own take on it is that of course there was a campaign to cleanse Germany of the Jews, at first by expulsions, then by working them to death as slave labour and/or just downright mass killing once the horrors of war set in- who really knows about the numbers, but shame on those who inflate or deflate the numbers deliberately for their own ends.

Furthermore, there should be no "elevation" of victimhood- this is neither "worse" or "better" than the genocide of Armenian Christians, Rwandans, Cambodians, Ethiopians/Russians/CHinese under communism etc



[edit on 5-6-2009 by blueorder]

According to Wikipedia , and I know its not the most reliable source the number of Jewish folks in Palestine was approximately 800,000 in 1948 on the eve of the 1948 Arab–Israeli War

Of course while great amounts of grief is made by Arab countries over the influx of European Jews to Israel port 1948. They tend to forget about the Jewish exodus from Arab lands

The Arabic Leaders played a significant role in the creation of Israel and did so at the expense of thier Palestinian brothers, they use the Palestinians as fodder they dont care about them one bit, any attention given to them is lip service.

tbh, the whole Israel/Palestine thing requires two states- the whole "legtimacy" of a state is largely meaningless after 60 years and millions of people reside there (especially when one has nukes!)


I just hate the way this conflict receives maximium media/political exposure, when one considers the number who die in conflicts such as Sudan or Sri Lanka

Personally I think most Americans are in agreement that there should be two states. The problem is that if Israel agrees to a two state solution will the surronding Arab countries keep to the agreement or will Israel be facing a situation where they are faced with undefendable borders with Syria and Hamas and Hezbollah sending rockets and suicide bombers into Israeli cities constantly.

Acknowledging the deaths that happend due to the holocaust isn't 'fantasy'



1 - The Iranian leadership said it didn't happen.
2 - Your use of the word 'zionists' with this tells me everything I need to know about your agenda.


6 million Jews. Hundreds of thousands of Catholics.
Untold thousands of people with different disabilities.

Those are the facts. Learn to deal with them.

reply to post by DarkStormCrow

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Excellent post! Listen up Harlequin .. read DarkStormCrows post and learn.

reply to post by ZeroKnowledge

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There's a ton of sources saying the 6 million Jew idea is fake and a lie. Go to Google and look it up yourself.

Every time I reference to multiple news sources people come out and say, "Oh but that's not CNN or FOX so it's fake."

So go look it up yourself, but the 6 million is bogus and a lie. Israel is a nation of lies.

reply to post by FlyersFan

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The Iranian leadership DIDN'T say it didn't happen. The U.S. media said the Iranian leadership said it didn't happen.

The president of Iran said the way Israel is saying the Holocaust happened is a lie, and that is true. It is a lie.

There's a big difference.

It was roughly 6 million Jews that died in the holocaust.
They were a minority compared to European Christians.
However, European christians were not singled out to die in ovens but on the battlefield, unless they went along with the Nazis.
There was the "Jewish Problem" as the Nazis put it.
Not everything is a Zionist conspiracy.
If Jews are touchy about it, who can blame them.
Look at how touchy some of you are about it.

reply to post by bobbylove321

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Ok. But we can count. Let me demonstrate how counting works:
Poland. Part of Europe. Jews in 1931 - 3100000 Jews.
books.google.com...
Hungary. Part of Europe.
725000
hgs.oxfordjournals.org...
Soviet Union - Ukraine - 1.6 million
Bielorussia - 407000
Romania 700000
upload.wikimedia.org...
So, 3100000 plus 725000 plus 2000000 plus 700000 = 6500000.
6500000 is more then 6000000.
And i did not add German (240000), French (300000) , Dutch (120000) ,Yugoslavian ,Baltic countries (250000) and ctr.
So - are you Israeli? Because you just lied... There were much more then 6 million Jews in Europe in 1930s- early 1940s
Or counting is a problem? Then i hope i helped you out with that.

Actually most of them changed their names from Jewish to Hungarian, before they betrayed that country to the Russians at the Siege of Budapest in 1944-45. After that, due to the some Zionist supremacist in the Communist era, mostly Jewish leaders, millions of Hungarians were deported and killed. Why we never hear about this?

Also even the Hungarian Jewish community can't decide the real numbers. In a year, they've stated 200000, then they've stated 400000, then they've stated 600000. Under one report, then when the reported asked back the number was around 350000. They also don't know what should they say as they also don't know the exact numbers at all.

Wikipedia is not a liable source. You can freely edit that. But you can't erase the memory of the people and Hungarians are maybe the last nation who knows what really happened in WW2. That's why they're still fighting on that land against each other and the Hungarians are going to win as they always did. Jews wants the Hungarian's holy land, because they have the greatest water supply on the planet and also you can find the sacred heart of the planet there, at least as far as I know.

[edit on 5-6-2009 by ShadowIntelligence]

reply to post by ShadowIntelligence

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So since you surely know what happened in world war 2, how many Jews were in Hungary? Or in Europe? Because you know, to take all the water and heart of world from such a proud naation as Hungarians one one need a big army. So 4 or 5 Jews were in Hungary before the war to steal all Hungarian stuff??
Edit:
There was a census by Hungarians (not nDvk Jews so it must be true) in 1941. So check it out, how many Jews were in Hungary in 1941.

[edit on 6-6-2009 by ZeroKnowledge]

reply to post by ZeroKnowledge

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If you don't know the history, that's not my problem. I just highlighted how it is really happened. If you're dark as the wet swamp sand, that's not my problem.

reply to post by ZeroKnowledge

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And count how many of the Jews left before the war actually broke out. Yes, exactly then you get a number less than 3 million. And from there on is where the lies begin.

Israel lies and is one of the most corrupt countries in the world. There were 3 reasons for World War 2:

1)Population Reduction

2)To create the United Nations

3)So the Jews move down to Israel, so that they can use it for a later excuse (remember all these people want to re-enact the bible, complete psychos)

And let us not forget it was JEWISH bankers that financed Hitler.

[edit on 7-6-2009 by bobbylove321]

reply to post by bobbylove321

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Yes. Lies is good word. When used properly. Show me, no need links to Nazi sites, just show me with numbers, how 3 millions remained and were the missing millions appeared. In what country/ies. With numbers.
The rest is just as correct as your primary idea, so lets go from lie to lie. First prove that there were 3 millions Jews in Europe prior to WW2. Or counting is again a problem?

Has anyone (believer/denier) read a first hand testimony by a Nobel Peace Prize Winner named Elie Wiesel?
According to his book "Night" there were no Gaschambers!!!
He claims that people are being burned alive in pits. He even quotes himself that he would rather jump into the electrified fence instead of having to die a slow death by burning alive.

It is also very weird story when they are being evacuated from Auschwitz. They (1000s of malnourished prisoners) have to run all night and they ran 70 kilometres during the first night and a similar distance the second night before they arrive in Gleiwitz.
If you look the places up on a map you'll find out that the distance between those 2 camps is around 60 kilometre. So it might be true that they had to walk that distance and it would take 2 nights if you walked.

The Holocaust shouldn't be taken with a grain of salt, it should be taken with a salt-mine!

[edit on 16-6-2009 by Haunebu]

I think its great that Obama is going over there and all to tout for the jews and everything.......but........ahhhhhh

If he really wants show his support........why is he virtually silent on the whole issue with Israel, so much so that its shaking the confidence of their leaders in our alliance with them?

not to mention all the OTHER things he should be doing that are of huge detriment.....

Im seriously getting tired of this mans mis allocated time and energy into being popular instead of things he SHOULD be taking care of.

wow sorry man apparently your post wasnt news worthy enough to warrant anymore views..........i was sure that people who supported obama would be interested in this