Analysis and Debunking of Obama's Speech to the Muslim World, page 1
Pages: <<  1    2    3    4  >>
ATS Members have flagged this thread 25 times
Topic started on 4-6-2009 @ 03:38 PM by finemanm
First I would like to say that I actually saw His entire speech on YouTube and read the entire text on Yahoo. I think that is was a beutifully delivered speech; however, I am doing this exercise to read between the lines and point out some disturbing trends and issues I found. After reading my analysis, I hope you all add to the discussion with your views.

This is not an attempt to say that Obama is a member of the NWO or that He is closet Muslim, just pointing things out that I found interesting.


Now, part of this conviction is rooted in my own experience. I'm a Christian. But my father came from a Kenyan family that includes generations of Muslims. As a boy, I spent several years in Indonesia and heard the call of the azaan at the break of dawn and at the fall of dusk.


This is important. He states unequically that he is a Christian, but states mater of factly that his father's falimy was Muslim and that he spent several years in Indonesia. I point this out because if this was brought up durring the election, you would be called a racist, but now he uses this to give him the moral authority to change US foreign policy in relation to the Muslim world. During the campaign, his father was an atheist, and now he and his family has been Muslim for gererations. Food for thought.


It was innovation in Muslim communities that developed the order of algebra, our magnetic compass and tools of navigation, our mastery of pens and printing, our understanding of how disease spreads and how it can be healed. Islamic culture has given us majestic arches and soaring spires, timeless poetry and cherished music, elegant calligraphy and places of peaceful contemplation. And throughout history, Islam has demonstrated through words and deeds the possibilities of religious tolerance and racial equality.


Firstly, this is purely pandering to the audience. Secondly, he is flatly wrong in his statement.

Algebra: Invented in the Middle-East? Yes, but not buy Muslims.


The origins of algebra can be traced to the ancient Babylonians,[6] who developed a positional number system which greatly aided them in solving their rhetorical algebraic equations. The Babylonians were not interested in exact solutions but approximations, and so they would commonly use linear interpolation to approximate intermediate values.[7] One of the most famous tablets is the Plimpton 322 tablet, created around 1600 - 1900 B.C., which gives a table of Pythagorean triples and represents some of the most advanced mathematics prior to Greek mathematics.
en.wikipedia.org...

Algebra was developed by Babylonians about 2,500 years before the founding of Islam.


According to the traditionalist view, the Qur'an began with revelations on Muhammad's divine revelations in AD 610. The verses of the Qur'an were written down and memorized during his life. Mecca was conquered by the Muslims in the year AD 630. In 628 the Meccan tribe of Quraish and the Muslim community in Medina had signed a truce called the Treaty of Hudaybiyya beginning a ten-year period of peace, which was broken when the Quraish and their allies, the tribe of Bakr, attacked the tribe of Khuza'ah, who were allies of the Muslims. Muhammad died in June 632. The Battle of Yamama was fought in December of the same year, between the forces of Rashidun Caliph Abu Bakr and Musailima.
en.wikipedia.org...

The Magnetic Compass and tools for navigation: Invented in China not the Middle-East:


The magnetic compass is an old Chinese invention, probably first made in China during the Qin dynasty (221-206 B.C.). Chinese fortune tellers used lodestones (a mineral composed of an iron oxide which aligns itself in a north-south direction) to construct their fortune telling boards.
inventors.about.com...

Pens and Printing from Muslim Countries? Not even close.


The invention of inks paralleled the introduction of paper. The early Egyptians, Romans, Greeks and Hebrews, used papyrus and parchment papers. One of the oldest pieces of writing on papyrus known to us today is the Egyptian "Prisse Papyrus" which dates back to 2000 B.C. The Romans created a reed-pen perfect for parchment and ink, from the hollow tubular-stems of marsh grasses, especially from the jointed bamboo plant. They converted bamboo stems into a primitive form of fountain pen. They cut one end into the form of a pen nib or point. A writing fluid or ink filled the stem, squeezing the reed forced fluid to the nib.
inventors.about.com...

Printing Press:


In 1440, German inventor Johannes Gutenberg invented a printing press process that, with refinements and increased mechanization, remained the principal means of printing until the late 20th century. The inventor's method of printing from movable type, including the use of metal molds and alloys, a special press, and oil-based inks, allowed for the first time the mass production of printed books.
www.ideafinder.com...

Medicine coming from Islam? Either to early or simply no.

Imhotep (yes the mummy from the popular movies) was an anchient Egyptian, not a Muslim.

Imhotep is credited with being the founder[10][11][12] of Egyptian medicine and with being the author of a medical treatise remarkable for being devoid of magical thinking, the so-called Edwin Smith papyrus containing anatomical observations, ailments, and cures. The surviving papyrus was probably written around 1700 BC but may be a copy of texts a thousand years older. This attribution of authorship is speculative, however.
en.wikipedia.org...

Continued below:


reply posted on 4-6-2009 @ 03:55 PM by finemanm
Modern Medicine came from Greece:

Hippocrates of Cos or Hippokrates of Kos (ca. 460 BC – ca. 370 BC) - Greek: Ἱπποκράτης; Hippokrátēs was an ancient Greek physician of the Age of Pericles, and was considered one of the most outstanding figures in the history of medicine. He is referred to as the "father of medicine"[2][3][4] in recognition of his lasting contributions to the field as the founder of the Hippocratic School of medicine. This intellectual school revolutionized medicine in ancient Greece, establishing it as a discipline distinct from other fields that it had traditionally been associated with (notably theurgy and philosophy), thus making medicine a profession.
en.wikipedia.org...

I just wanted to point out the pandering and blatent falsehoods in the very begining of the speech.

Now for a jab at Bush and the previous administration.


The situation in Afghanistan demonstrates America's goals and our need to work together. Over seven years ago, the United States pursued Al Qaida and the Taliban with broad international support. We did not go by choice. We went because of necessity.

*snip*

Now, let me also address the issue of Iraq. Unlike Afghanistan, Iraq was a war of choice that provoked strong differences in my country and around the world. Although I believe that the Iraqi people are ultimately better off without the tyranny of Saddam Hussein, I also believe that events in Iraq have reminded America of the need to use diplomacy and build international consensus to resolve our problems whenever possible.


I don't really disagree with him, but it is really unprecidented how much time this president spends critizing the previous president. Bush did not criticize Clinton, and Clinton did not criticize the elder Bush.

Obama talks about putting the past behind us, but he loves to blame today's problems on the past administration.


I have made it clear to the Iraqi people that we pursue no basis and no claim on their territory or resources. Iraq's sovereignty is its own. And that's why I ordered the removal of our combat brigades by next August. That is why we will honor our agreement with Iraq's democratically-elected government to remove combat troops from Iraqi cities by July and to remove all of our troops from Iraq by 2012.


Blantent Lie!

On Nov. 27, 2008, the Iraqi Parliament ratified a Status of Forces agreement with the United States that sets a course for an end to the United States’ role in the war and marks the beginning of a new relationship between the countries. The pact calls for American troops to pull out of most Iraqi cities by the summer of 2009 and sets the end of 2011 as the date by which the last American troops must leave the country.
topics.nytimes.com...

Sorry, but Bush actually made the agreement to remove our troops from Iraq.

Israel vs. Palestinians:

Now, the second major source of tension that we need to discuss is the situation between Israelis, Palestinians and the Arab world. America's strong bonds with Israel are well-known. This bond is unbreakable. It is based upon cultural and historical ties and the recognition that the aspiration for a Jewish homeland is rooted in a tragic history that cannot be denied.

Around the world the Jewish people were persecuted for centuries. And anti-Semitism in Europe culminated in an unprecedented holocaust. Tomorrow I will visit Buchenwald, which was part of a network of camps where Jews were enslaved, tortured, shot and gassed to death by the Third Reich.

Six million Jews were killed, more than the entire Jewish population of Israel today. Denying that fact is baseless. It is ignorant, and it is hateful.
Threatening Israel with destruction or repeating vile stereotypes about Jews is deeply wrong and only serves to evoke in the minds of the Israelis this most painful of memories while preventing the peace that the people of this region deserve.

On the other hand, it is also undeniable that the Palestinian people, Muslims and Christians, have suffered in pursuit of a homeland. For more than 60 years, they've endured the pain of dislocation.

Many wait in refugee camps in the West Bank and Gaza and neighboring lands for a life of peace and security that they have never been able to lead. They endure the daily humiliations, large and small, that come with occupation.

So let there be no doubt, the situation for the Palestinian people is intolerable. And America will not turn our backs on the legitimate Palestinian aspiration for dignity, opportunity and a state of their own.


I think that it is great that he wants to establish a two state solution and he is for recognizing Israel's right to exist, but he spends a lot of time talking about the humiliations of occupation and Palestinian suffering without really stating how it got to this point - almost daily suicide/homicide bombings in Israel - before the building of the security wall.


For Palestinians to point to the displacement brought about by Israel's founding and for Israelis to point to the constant hostility and attacks throughout its history, from within its borders as well as beyond.


I bolded this because it is fundamental. Palestinians anger at the FOUNDING of Israel. He is giving this beleif legitimacy when it is SO wrong. In 1948, the Arabs were offered a state of their own which they regected. Instead they attacked Israel in an attempt to wipe them of the map.


At the same time, Israelis must acknowledge that just as Israel's right to exist cannot be denied, neither can Palestine's. The United States does not accept the legitimacy of continued Israeli settlements. This construction violates previous agreements and undermines efforts to achieve peace. It is time for these settlements to stop.


No US president has used such strong language with the issue of settlements. This is a total paradyme shift.


America will align our policies with those who pursue peace, and we will say in public what we say in private. To Israelis and Palestinians and Arabs we cannot impose peace. But privately, many Muslims recognize that Israel will not go away.


That is the whole point. Muslim will never accept Israel.
More.


reply posted on 4-6-2009 @ 04:11 PM by finemanm
Iran:


Now, I understand those who protest that some countries have weapons that others do not. No single nations should pick and choose which nation holds nuclear weapons. And that's why I strongly reaffirmed America's commitment to seek a world in which no nations hold nuclear weapons.

And any nation, including Iran, should have the right to access peaceful nuclear power if it complies with its responsibilities under the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty. That commitment is at the core of the treaty. And it must be kept for all who fully abide by it. And I am hopeful that all countries in the region can share in this goal.


Again, paridyme shift. This is a veiled threat at Israel's uncomfirmed Nuclear arsenal, and a tacit approval of Iran's Nuclear program. This is pure insanity. While his speech states that Nuclear weapons in the Mid-East are a bad thing, he is legitimizing everything Iran has done up to now.

Democracy:


I know there has been controversy about the promotion of democracy in recent years. And much of this controversy is connected to the war in Iraq. So let me be clear. No system of government can or should be imposed by one nation by any other. That does not lessen my commitment, however, to governments that reflect the will of the people.

Each nation gives life to this principle in its own way, grounded in the traditions of its own people. America does not presume to know what is best for everyone, just as we would not presume to pick the outcome of a peaceful election.


This is the complete abandonment of 50-60 years of US foreign policy. This is an acceptance of Theocracies and Dictatorships. This is deeming to democracy, the US solders who really believed that they were bring democracy to Iraq, and even to the men who gave their lives at Normandy who were fighting totalitarianism.

Why did we impose on Nazi Germany? Why did we fight communism for 50 years? This is a complete abandonment of US policy in favor of "globalism."

Religious Freedom and Women's Rights:


That's why I'm committed to work with American Muslims to ensure that they can fulfill zakat. Likewise, it is important for Western countries to avoid impeding Muslim citizens from practicing religion as they see fit, for instance, by dictating what clothes a Muslim woman should wear.

*snip*

I know, and you can tell from this audience, that there is a healthy debate about this issue. I reject the view of some in the West that a woman who chooses to cover her hair is somehow less equal.

*snip*

I do not believe that women must make the same choices as men in order to be equal. And I respect those women who choose to live their lives in traditional roles. But it should be their choice.


He spends a lot of time defending the burka or hijab. He defends a woman's right to be a homemaker. That is funny. One would think that he would defend a woman's right to dress how she wants and to work where she wants.

The right to wear a head scarf is a really funny right to defend. In most Muslim countries, when a woman fails to exercise this right, she can be stoned or wiped. Funny what he thinks are the appropriate rights to defend.

Here is the Speech in text: Speech

Here is the video:



[edit on 4-6-2009 by finemanm]



reply posted on 4-6-2009 @ 06:43 PM by Southern Guardian
Originally posted by finemanm
This is important. He states unequically that he is a Christian, but states mater of factly that his father's falimy was Muslim and that he spent several years in Indonesia. I point this out because if this was brought up durring the election, you would be called a racist, but now he uses this to give him the moral authority to change US foreign policy in relation to the Muslim world.


Would you rather have the man deny his family history and his time spent in indonesia? Just because his a christian do you really expect the man to drop everything and ignore his families history? If he did that what would you be doing now? You would be accusing him of ignoring his families history then wouldnt you?? He has every right to use it as a foreign policy strategy, it is time the muslim world feel that for once there is a US president that understands them somewhat on a cultural level.

During the campaign, his father was an atheist, and now he and his family has been Muslim for gererations.


And?? His father was brought up into a muslim family but his father became an athiest at adulthood, its in both of his books, its written in his biography. Is it so hard to believe? Must everything be black and white?

Firstly, this is purely pandering to the audience.


No kidding? thats not his speech was meant to do??

Secondly, he is flatly wrong in his statement.

Algebra: Invented in the Middle-East? Yes, but not buy Muslims.


He never said it was invented by muslims specifically. He said it was invented in the middle east and then he went forth to discuss the multi-ethnic society of muslim civilizations.

Algebra was developed by Babylonians about 2,500 years before the founding of Islam.


Yes and again he never said muslims, he referenced the middle east specifically.

The Magnetic Compass and tools for navigation: Invented in China not the Middle-East:


I dont see anywhere in that quote where he said the magnetic compass was invented by the civilizations in the middle east. If you can specifically reference the sentence, would be appreciated.

Pens and Printing from Muslim Countries? Not even close.


Again please reference the specific sentences, your referencing paragraphs that done have him say any of the sort.

Could you please directly reference this in his speech thanks.


reply posted on 4-6-2009 @ 07:20 PM by masonwatcher
reply to post by JesusSaves2008


Based on your handle 'JesusSaves2008' and your extremist views, I surmise that you are a believer of the new strain of politicised Christianity originating fro the likes of Jimmy Swaggart and Benny Hinn.

This distorted form of Christianity is an artefact of a culture of consumption that an uncritical mind and uninformed individual immerses themselves in to satisfy a spiritual hunger that does not gets satisfied in the end. It is a situation were outside interests are able to ply currency to manufacture a Frankenstein form of faith otherwise known as Zionist Christianity praying for a world ending catastrophe. I got to tell you, going under the skin of such absolute movements leaves my blood cold.

[edit on 073030p://pm3013 by masonwatcher]



reply posted on 4-6-2009 @ 10:46 PM by finemanm
reply to post by Southern Guardian


You should try to actually read my posts above AND Obama's speech prior to levying critizism.

From the actual speech:



It was innovation in Muslim communities that developed the order of algebra, our magnetic compass and tools of navigation, our mastery of pens and printing, our understanding of how disease spreads and how it can be healed.


You said:



No kidding? thats not his speech was meant to do??


My point: No US president should have to PANDER to foreigners. This entire exercise is ridiculous. The President of the United States should be more interested in promoting American interests, not begging for Islam's forgiveness for the last 60 years of US foreign policy. I think Eisenhower, Kennedy, Johnson, Nixon, Ford, Reagan, the Elder Bush, and Clinton had were all smarter than this guy and they all maintained continuity in US foreign policy which was in the best interest of this country.

I left out Carter because he was as bad or worse than this guy, and I left out Bush because I have very mixed feelings about him.


reply posted on 4-6-2009 @ 11:00 PM by finemanm
reply to post by masonwatcher


I knew I could count on one of ATS's resident Israel bashers to add such well thought out criticisms such as claiming that believing in Jesus makes you an extremist.

Only a Muslim would say that believing in a deity that said things like "turn the other cheek" is an extreme ideology.

Quotes from the Koran, this is more your flavor masonwatcher:


[2.191] And kill them wherever you find them, and drive them out from whence they drove you out, and persecution is severer than slaughter, and do not fight with them at the Sacred Mosque until they fight with you in it, but if they do fight you, then slay them; such is the recompense of the unbelievers.





reply posted on 4-6-2009 @ 11:59 PM by DrMattMaddix
Originally posted by masonwatcher
reply to post by JesusSaves2008


Based on your handle 'JesusSaves2008' and your extremist views, I surmise that you are a believer of the new strain of politicised Christianity originating fro the likes of Jimmy Swaggart and Benny Hinn.

This distorted form of Christianity is an artefact of a culture of consumption that an uncritical mind and uninformed individual immerses themselves in to satisfy a spiritual hunger that does not gets satisfied in the end. It is a situation were outside interests are able to ply currency to manufacture a Frankenstein form of faith otherwise known as Zionist Christianity praying for a world ending catastrophe. I got to tell you, going under the skin of such absolute movements leaves my blood cold.

[edit on 073030p://pm3013 by masonwatcher]


LOL Benny Hinn. Man, you are abrasive and insulting.

Benny Hinn is NOT a Christian. He's on fire alright...

If there weren't T&C I have many choice lines of prose to throw your way... however, it's also pointless to argue on the internet. Kicking your head up your ass would certainly be a painful thing for you (specially wearing that helmet in your avatar)... Let's all hope that never happens.

God Rocks... Just ask. You'll definitely get an answer.

[edit on 6·5·09 by DrMattMaddix]


reply posted on 5-6-2009 @ 06:35 AM by pitchdragon
He said that Islam has a record of religious tolerance. WHERE?!?!
reply to post by JesusSaves2008



i'm sorry but it is, the koran talk about tolerance, as bible do,it's just manipulated by man
i dont give a damn about chrastian and muslim, i dont give a damn about religion, but dont forget long time time ago some pseudo chrastian had made many cruel things as some pseudo muslim did now, i'm not saying that's normal but just stop puting all the muslim in the same bag, this thread is wired because it's just telling us that the muslim had did nothing in the past, they creat nothing, they only bring kaos, what does it mean ?
i'm not religious and i feel more tolerant then religious people who advocate tolerance and love when they do not undertake to set any rate part of the population because it does not share the same conviction, i dont blame people because there are different or the don't think as i think
i dont belive in religion because i'm not ameziac as many religious people are ,forgeting what in the name of god many man has did in the past .

religion is also education, but when we have the worst teachers, here is what happens, conflicts, now everything is just about money or power, spirituality is just one curtain to hide his actions, not very tolerant

i don't wanted to take part of this thread, but i'm tired and sick of all this negativity, actually i dont see where is love and tolerance.

peace



reply posted on 5-6-2009 @ 06:53 AM by FlyersFan
OBAMA's SPEECH .... my analysis .... he snubbed Israel (first time a POTUS has ever done that while visiting that part of the world) and then he gave a huge green light to Iran for their Nuclear Program. That was the major message of the speech/trip.

I hope to God we got something outstanding out of his MAJOR pander to Iran.
But I bet we didn't.


Originally posted by masonwatcher
Your post is entirely oriented at disassociating the people of the Middle East from their religion, history and heritage.

No, it was to debunk or confirm what Obama - a lawyer/politician - said in a speech. Do you instantly believe everything that is said by a lawyer/politician with a history of pandering to whoever he is talking to? I certainly don't.

Originally posted by Southern Guardian
Just because his a christian ...

Black Liberation Theology isn't Christian.

Black Liberation theology

Black theology refuses to accept a God who is not identified totally with the goals of the black community. If God is not for us and against white people, then he is a murderer, and we had better kill him. The task of black theology is to kill Gods who do not belong to the black community ... Black theology will accept only the love of God which participates in the destruction of the white enemy. What we need is the divine love as expressed in Black Power, which is the power of black people to destroy their oppressors here and now by any means at their disposal. Unless God is participating in this holy activity, we must reject his love.


Obama's Church not your average Christian Church

That cult Obama belonged to for 20 years may have a christian sign hanging on the door, but it is NOT christian.


reply posted on 5-6-2009 @ 07:12 AM by andrewh7
Originally posted by finemanm

This is important. He states unequically that he is a Christian, but states mater of factly that his father's falimy was Muslim and that he spent several years in Indonesia. I point this out because if this was brought up durring the election, you would be called a racist, but now he uses this to give him the moral authority to change US foreign policy in relation to the Muslim world. During the campaign, his father was an atheist, and now he and his family has been Muslim for gererations. Food for thought.


This is getting absolutely ridiculous. There is a small problem with your logic, however, since this WAS brought up a lot during the election - a lot. No one ever called his father an atheist. Proof? There was a thread on his Muslim heritage that we have been discussing all week on THIS SITE. We were all discussing his father being a Muslim because we all knew this from the campaign. I guarantee there must be a dozen other threads from last year talking about his father being a Muslim. Just because you apparently sat through the campaign without watching TV, reading newspapers or magazines, or using the Internet, this does not make well-known information a revelation to anyone else except you.

I just wanted to point out YOUR blatant falsehoods and pandering to a stigma against Muslims. Tomorrow - you're probably going to claim, "Obama just admitted during a speech that he is black. Now I want to say that if this was brought up during the campaign, you would be called a racist. Now he's admitting that he's black to give him the moral authority to change race relations in United States."

I'm sorry - did I ruin the surprise for tomorrow's thread? Well, sorry about the interruption. I will get you back to your complex wikipedia analysis. No one can claim you didn't "do the research," what with all the keywords you've been typing into wikipedia for that whole 10 minutes, not to mention the arduous copying and pasting.

Other Future Revelations from Finemanm:
1. Obama's wife is a woman
2. Obama has a dog
3. Obama is a Democrat
4. Obama travels in an airplane paid for by taxpayers

Ask yourself this question: Is there anything Obama could say during a speech in the middle east that wouldn't lead to you saying that he is pandering to Muslims? Think about it. We could have walked in there and discussed what he thought of the new Star Trek movie, and you'd say he was pandering Muslim interest in science fiction.

[edit on 5-6-2009 by andrewh7]
Pages: <<  1    2    3    4  >>    ^^TOP^^



Young Israelis and Palestinians Flash Mob for Peace
  Posted 5 days ago with 37 member flags
Zionists , Stop the War Against Iran Now!
  Posted 4 days ago with 34 member flags
Zionist regime well within Iran missile reach: MP
  Posted 6 days ago with 25 member flags
Israel to UN: Tomorrow will be too late for action against Iran !!
  Posted 18 days ago with 22 member flags
Israel no match for Iran military might
  Posted 7 days ago with 21 member flags
70% of Israelis think that jews are the Chosen People
  Posted 15 days ago with 18 member flags

Newest topics getting flags, in real-time:

Hollow Earth Theory New Evidence.
  General Conspiracies, Posted 15 hours ago, 25 flags
Free Psychic Readings
  General Chit Chat, Posted 17 hours ago, 25 flags
My Brain = about to explode
  Member Art, Posted 7 hours ago, 22 flags
ATS's Gutter-rats and the 90+ intro thread
  Rant, Posted 15 hours ago, 20 flags
Amazing French Indigo Girl in Africa (Tippi)
  Survival, Posted 6 hours ago, 14 flags

Newest topics getting replies, in real-time:

Free Psychic Readings
  General Chit Chat, Posted 17 hours ago, 128 replies
Hollow Earth Theory New Evidence.
  General Conspiracies, Posted 15 hours ago, 101 replies
Anonymous show your face!
  Rant, Posted 11 hours ago, 65 replies
I saw a cat turn into a bag..
  The Gray Area, Posted 15 hours ago, 38 replies