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ALERT! ! Uh-oh America ---- We’re at Step 5 (of 6)

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posted on Jun, 4 2009 @ 08:56 AM
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ALERT! ! Uh-oh America ---- We’re at Step 5 (of 6)

OT’s kind of a history buff….and I’ve been doing some thinking about our nation (America) and I wonder are we on the decline…well I think the obvious answer to that is unfortunately “yes”…the real question is…”is it too late?” I’m the eternal optimist as you know, but I’m a bit worried.

From my study, nations go through 6 stages. Here’s a quick overview as I see it…



Stage 1 – Enlightenment-“There must be more!”

Stage 2 – Determination-“Damn, we can have freedom!”

Stage 3 - Freedom-“Thank God!”

Stage 4 - Contentment-“Boy we are the best!”

Stage 5 - Dependence-“Since we have so much, I’m gonna get mine!”

And lastly Stage 6 – Bondage Again-“whiskey, tango, foxtrot, what happened?”


Background: A few hundred years ago… Alexander Tyler, a Scottish history professor at the University of Edinburgh, said, 'A democracy is always temporary in nature; it simply cannot exist as a permanent form of government.' And that 'A democracy will continue to exist up until the time that voters discover they can vote themselves generous gifts from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always vote for the candidates who promise the most benefits from the public treasury, with the result that every democracy will finally collapse due to loose fiscal policy, which is always followed by a dictatorship.'


Recently, "Professor Joseph Olson of Hemline University School of Law, St. Paul, Minnesota, observed, 'In aggregate, the map of the territory Bush won was mostly the land owned by the taxpaying citizens of this great country. Gore's territory mostly encompassed those citizens living in government-owned tenements and living off various forms of government welfare...'

I’m not making a judgment one way or the other on the two statements, there are what they are.

OK, some historical justification for my 6 stages…

Stage 1 – Enlightenment- "Our constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." John Adams

Stage 2 – Determination- "Resistance to tyrants is obedience to God." Thomas Jefferson

Stage 3 - Freedom- "The foundation of our national policy will be laid in the pure and immutable principles of private morality; ...the propitious smiles of Heaven can never be expected on a nation that disregards the eternal rules of order and right which Heaven itself has ordained..." George Washington, First Inaugural, April 30 1789

Stage 4 - Contentment- "We base all our experiments on the capacity of mankind for self-government." James Madison

Stage 5 - Dependence- Forecasters expect the 2009 deficit for the budget year that began last Oct 1 … to hit $1.6 trillion including new stimulus and bank-bailout spending. That's about three times last year's shortfall. The national debt stands at $10.7 trillion. Or about $36,000 for every man, woman and child in the U.S. Interest payments alone on the national debt will near $500 billion this year. It's already the fourth-largest federal expenditure, after Medicare-Medicaid, Social Security and defense.

And lastly Stage 6 – Bondage Again-Calling Obama a "criminal", Ayman al-Zawahiri told Muslims not to heed the "elegant words" of the US president whose speech in Cairo is aimed at repairing ties with the Islamic world damaged by his predecessor's "war on terror" policies. Source: english.aljazeera.net...

So there some things to chew on? Some questions for my ATS-ers…

1) In what ways, do you agree or disagree with my stages?

2) Are we headed to stage 6?

3) Can this slide be reversed? How?

4) Why has this happened?

5) Where there really “good ole days” and do you miss them?

6) Have we forgotten God or is that irrelevant?

Thanks guys…

OT


[edit on 4-6-2009 by OldThinker]




posted on Jun, 4 2009 @ 09:02 AM
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America: Is it a republic or democracy?



Initially it was supposed to be a republic, but now it seems no one is sure, however it is interesting to know the distinction between the two.

An Important Distinction: Democracy versus Republic




It is important to keep in mind the difference between a Democracy and a Republic, as dissimilar forms of government. Understanding the difference is essential to comprehension of the fundamentals involved. It should be noted, in passing, that use of the word Democracy as meaning merely the popular type of government--that is, featuring genuinely free elections by the people periodically--is not helpful in discussing, as here, the difference between alternative and dissimilar forms of a popular government: a Democracy versus a Republic. This double meaning of Democracy--a popular-type government in general, as well as a specific form of popular government--needs to be made clear in any discussion, or writing, regarding this subject, for the sake of sound understanding.

These two forms of government: Democracy and Republic, are not only dissimilar but antithetical, reflecting the sharp contrast between (a) The Majority Unlimited, in a Democracy, lacking any legal safeguard of the rights of The Individual and The Minority, and (b) The Majority Limited, in a Republic under a written Constitution safeguarding the rights of The Individual and The Minority; as we shall now see.

www.lexrex.com...




posted on Jun, 4 2009 @ 09:10 AM
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reply to post by warrenb
 



warrenb, Good point...I edited the OP to be less restrictive...I'll leave it at "nation"

Thanks again!

OT



posted on Jun, 4 2009 @ 09:25 AM
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I found a little more for Stage 6...


Ayman al-Zawahiri told Muslims....

"His bloody messages were received and are still being received by Muslims, and they will not be concealed by public relations campaigns or by farcical visits or elegant words," said an audio recording purportedly by al-Zawahiri posted on an al-Qaeda-linked website on Tuesday.


link: english.aljazeera.net...

Scary huh?



posted on Jun, 4 2009 @ 11:15 AM
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Hey Oldthinker, I'm not sure if you seen this but you should watch it.


She has a list too, it's the list of steps away from freedom.

[edit on 4-6-2009 by Mr Headshot]



posted on Jun, 4 2009 @ 11:36 AM
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reply to post by Mr Headshot
 


Mr. H!

Thank you for the video...

I'm in my garage listening to the Jungle/Jim Rome...working on the honey-do list...

I'll get to it later today...thanks so much for taking the time to post...

OT



posted on Jun, 4 2009 @ 11:56 AM
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I believe We are in phase 6 already. Any one that is middle class and paying out the butt in taxes could tell You this. It doesn't take a grand strategist to figure out if You always cater to the loosers of society You will continue to stay in power. Napoleon catered to the same group which put him in power and then later 75% of the men were wiped out due to his wars.



posted on Jun, 4 2009 @ 11:59 AM
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Originally posted by jkm1864
I believe We are in phase 6 already. Any one that is middle class and paying out the butt in taxes could tell You this. It doesn't take a grand strategist to figure out if You always cater to the loosers of society You will continue to stay in power. Napoleon catered to the same group which put him in power and then later 75% of the men were wiped out due to his wars.



J, that is a great (sad) point...


When you have time could you take a crack at the questions? How do we/us/America turn it around?

Appreciate your time here!

OT



posted on Jun, 4 2009 @ 12:12 PM
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I wonder if we are already in stage 6. The population is becoming more enlightened everyday. Maybe this is a short stage 6.



posted on Jun, 4 2009 @ 12:13 PM
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Originally posted by ExPostFacto
I wonder if we are already in stage 6. The population is becoming more enlightened everyday. Maybe this is a short stage 6.



Yes, I'm thinking stage 5...for a short time tho....?

OT



posted on Jun, 4 2009 @ 12:33 PM
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reply to post by OldThinker
 


Great History work! I'm glad to see it.

I agree we are headed for stage 6. We already know that the New World Oder is not a conspiracy. We have heard of Obama, Bush 41, Bush 43, Clinton, Gordon Brown and Nicolas Sarkozy all want to form a NWO. This, in fact will result in one global Dictator.

This, in my opinion cannot be reversed. We are not allowed to vote on any G20 meetings. We have a few clues from the Bilderberg group that they only care about themselves. Those who are dependent on any government will be the ones in big trouble. We can only protect ourselves and prepare.

The good old days are gone. We have gone from a wealthy prosperous nation to bankrupt, debtful society. I think 2010 will be a new era. One we have never seen in our history. This is not a normal business cycle, rather our demise. What goes up must come down. Gravity always wins, in the long run.

Many get angry at the word of God, as we know OT. It’s sad but true. God is being removed from public places and schools faster than we can snap our fingers. Many debate God. It only instills morals and values to a society. I never understand why so many bash God so blatently and are publically blasphemous.



posted on Jun, 4 2009 @ 12:39 PM
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Originally posted by wonderworld
reply to post by OldThinker
 


Great History work! I'm glad to see it.

I agree we are headed for stage 6. We already know that the New World Oder is not a conspiracy. We have heard of Obama, Bush 41, Bush 43, Clinton, Gordon Brown and Nicolas Sarkozy all want to form a NWO. This, in fact will result in one global Dictator.

This, in my opinion cannot be reversed. We are not allowed to vote on any G20 meetings. We have a few clues from the Bilderberg group that they only care about themselves. Those who are dependent on any government will be the ones in big trouble. We can only protect ourselves and prepare.

The good old days are gone. We have gone from a wealthy prosperous nation to bankrupt, debtful society. I think 2010 will be a new era. One we have never seen in our history. This is not a normal business cycle, rather our demise. What goes up must come down. Gravity always wins, in the long run.

Many get angry at the word of God, as we know OT. It’s sad but true. God is being removed from public places and schools faster than we can snap our fingers. Many debate God. It only instills morals and values to a society. I never understand why so many bash God so blatently and are publically blasphemous.


ww,

Thanks so much...

Your post ties alot together...

It will be a record should things worsen...


My prayer is they won't...

Time will tell!!

OT glad you joined!



posted on Jun, 4 2009 @ 12:52 PM
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reply to post by OldThinker
 


I admit I'm a bit torn on the global calamities. Being on ATS has heightened my knowledge and I’m on full alert; although my life in general sees the positive things we still have in our country and life goes on as usual.

I keep the gloom and doom theories to myself and don’t share them to often with friends and family but do give them the heads up on what to watch for.

Lets just hope this Casino type economy works or we'll be seeing hyperinflation soon.



posted on Jun, 4 2009 @ 12:56 PM
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Originally posted by wonderworld
reply to post by OldThinker
 


I admit I'm a bit torn on the global calamities. Being on ATS has heightened my knowledge and I’m on full alert;.......



me, too...

Thanks to the founders and mods of ATS for this great forum....I, too, have learned so much....


ww, we know "from where our helps comes" no matter what the future brings... right?


OT

[edit on 4-6-2009 by OldThinker]



posted on Jun, 4 2009 @ 01:21 PM
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Why is it that all of these “outlook”,”this is the way it is” type listings never contain one step more to allow people the chance to come out of it?
I have always wondered why people see fit to never include the true final step; that is AFTER the down fall, cataclysm etc. What should stage 7 be?
Why should we just be content to fall on our face’s and stay there?
Optimism has it’s place, but it is in the human condition to survive. So we really do need to find step seven and allow our true nature to thrive.

There has been enough time’s in the very recent past that have afforded us the chance to see that the end of the world doom and gloom never hold’s true.



posted on Jun, 4 2009 @ 02:10 PM
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reply to post by xoxo stacie
 


Appreciate your optimism there XoXo stacie!!!!

We will get thru 'whatever' you are right...

OT



[edit on 4-6-2009 by OldThinker]



posted on Jun, 4 2009 @ 02:49 PM
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reply to post by OldThinker
 


Right! We know exactly where our hope comes from. A few us us anyways.

Have you ever noticed the God bashing threads get more attention. Ive seen it for myself. Kind of sad isnt it?



posted on Jun, 4 2009 @ 02:55 PM
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check out Vico's cycle of nations :

list of stages:
1)theocracy(rule of gods)
2)aristocracy(rule of heroes)
3)democracy(rule of mob/people/fools etc.)

and the cycle goes on



posted on Jun, 4 2009 @ 06:47 PM
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Originally posted by wonderworld
reply to post by OldThinker
 


Right! We know exactly where our hope comes from. A few us us anyways.

Have you ever noticed the God bashing threads get more attention. Ive seen it for myself. Kind of sad isnt it?



You know I have rec'd my share of grief from the faithless...

No hard feelings though...the debate is great.

I hope they read history as much as I do and can see our countries' trend...because we all need each other if we are going to turn this country around



posted on Jun, 4 2009 @ 06:49 PM
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Originally posted by Kombatt98
check out Vico's cycle of nations :

list of stages:
1)theocracy(rule of gods)
2)aristocracy(rule of heroes)
3)democracy(rule of mob/people/fools etc.)

and the cycle goes on




very interesting cycle there...vico is on to something...

OT



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