Originally posted by jjkenobi

Are you contending Obama's troops and mercenaries are in Iraq and Afghanistan to convert people to Christianity? Because he is the Commander in Chief now and he has increased troop levels instead of pulling them back home.

No this isnt just an Obama thing this is a US government thing Bush and Obama, we have had troops over since the beginning trying to convert Muslims in Iraq and Afghanistan into Christianity. It's illegal to do but they do it through a loop hole saying that you can give gifts. They say that they are giving the "gift" of Christianity to the Muslims..... tell me that doesnt piss off the Muslims there....

[edit on 4-6-2009 by tjeffersonsghost]

Originally posted by AlwaysQuestion
Personally I thought his speech was a little scary and certainly tied in with his goof about "My muslim faith".... I guess we will see, but from over here it seems like a president who indeed will bring change to the usa (not good change though)....

ain't that the truth

Originally posted by tjeffersonsghost
No this isnt just an Obama thing this is a US government thing Bush and Obama, we have had troops over since the beginning trying to convert Muslims in Iraq and Afghanistan into Christianity. It's illegal to do but they do it through a loop hole saying that you can give gifts. They say that they are giving the "gift" of Christianity to the Muslims..... tell me that doesnt piss off the Muslims there....

[edit on 4-6-2009 by tjeffersonsghost]

are you saying certain individuals may do it? Hell yeah, this is the land of humans.

Is it policy or the reason why the UK/US invaded? Hell no- the reasons are many fold, oil, crazy dictator whatever, but to pretend that it is some mass conversion to Christianity is just off the scale

[edit on 4-6-2009 by blueorder]

Originally posted by blueorder


are you saying certain individuals may do it? Hell yeah, this is the land of humans.

Is it policy or the reason why the UK/US invaded? Hell no- the reasons are many fold, oil, crazy dictator whatever, but to pretend that it is some mass conversion to Christianity is just off the scale

[edit on 4-6-2009 by blueorder]

No its not policy but it shouldnt be happening AT ALL. My point in case someone on this thread said "The Muslims are hell bent on converting us all to Islam." when in reality WE are doing the same thing. Its just a select few Muslims who feel this way. BTW its a bigger group than you think pushing for Christianity conversion over there......

Originally posted by tjeffersonsghost

Originally posted by jjkenobi

Are you contending Obama's troops and mercenaries are in Iraq and Afghanistan to convert people to Christianity? Because he is the Commander in Chief now and he has increased troop levels instead of pulling them back home.

No this isnt just an Obama thing this is a US government thing Bush and Obama, we have had troops over since the beginning trying to convert Muslims in Iraq and Afghanistan into Christianity. It's illegal to do but they do it through a loop hole saying that you can give gifts. They say that they are giving the "gift" of Christianity to the Muslims..... tell me that doesnt piss off the Muslims there....

[edit on 4-6-2009 by tjeffersonsghost]

It probably pisses them off as much as when a Jehovah's Witness comes to my door.

I don't share your belief that our troops are all Christian and are trying to convert Muslims. Common sense would say a portion of our troops are Christian and a portion of those may try to convert others but that doesn't translate into some grand conspiracy. And it it no way equals convert to Christianity or die. Of all the conspiracies about the US govt I have not heard the one about the top secret high level group pulling the strings to convert the work to Christianity. If anything it seems like the govt is going the opposite direction to me.

Originally posted by jjkenobi

It probably pisses them off as much as when a Jehovah's Witness comes to my door.

I don't share your belief that our troops are all Christian and are trying to convert Muslims. Common sense would say a portion of our troops are Christian and a portion of those may try to convert others but that doesn't translate into some grand conspiracy. And it it no way equals convert to Christianity or die. Of all the conspiracies about the US govt I have not heard the one about the top secret high level group pulling the strings to convert the work to Christianity. If anything it seems like the govt is going the opposite direction to me.

No, it pisses them off MORE than a JW coming to my door. They take their religion serious over there. I didnt say anything about a grand conspiracy I said that we are over there trying to convert them. Not everyone is involved but a bigger group than you think is. As I stated before it shouldnt be happening AT ALL. First off its against the law and second it sends the message that we are a Christian Nation and we are here to convert you. Its used as great recruitment propaganda for the people who hate us....

Originally posted by jjkenobi
It probably pisses them off as much as when a Jehovah's Witness comes to my door.

I don't share your belief that our troops are all Christian and are trying to convert Muslims. Common sense would say a portion of our troops are Christian and a portion of those may try to convert others but that doesn't translate into some grand conspiracy. And it it no way equals convert to Christianity or die. Of all the conspiracies about the US govt I have not heard the one about the top secret high level group pulling the strings to convert the work to Christianity. If anything it seems like the govt is going the opposite direction to me.

exactly, if it was the case I don't think the Islamic community WITHIN the US would be growing (as it has been).........

Originally posted by tjeffersonsghost
No, it pisses them off MORE than a JW coming to my door. They take their religion serious over there.

woah- is that an excuse? Would you use the same excuse for Christians who take their religion "seriously" in the US, or would you brand them "fundamentalist"?

I didnt say anything about a grand conspiracy I said that we are over there trying to convert them.

define "we"- certain individuals yes, but that is impossible to prevent when you have hundreds of thousands of human beings involved

Not everyone is involved but a bigger group than you think is.

in what sense

As I stated before it shouldnt be happening AT ALL.

This world is imperfect and where there are large numbers of people, things will happen- but let us back up, why the hell should someone NOT talk about their religion- for crying out loud many of these "islamic" countries have bigger Christian minorities than the US has an Islamic minority!

First off its against the law

how would you feel about a law in the US preventing conversion from Christianity- would you explain it away as Christians taking their religion "seriously" or would you condemn it as fundamentalist

Originally posted by blueorder

how would you feel about a law in the US preventing conversion from Christianity- would you explain it away as Christians taking their religion "seriously" or would you condemn it as fundamentalist

No thats fine Im happy with the first amendment. That is just fine with me. It is against the law for the military to push religion on countries we occupy. First off we are not a Christian Nation so we shouldnt be using our military to represent this. I dont care if these people pray and do ceremonies on their private time and with each other while in the military and over seas. But to intentionally go out and try to convert people is illegal and will play right into the hands of those who hate us and feel that we ARE Christian invaders trying to convert them.

Originally posted by tjeffersonsghost
No thats fine Im happy with the first amendment. That is just fine with me.

Yes, but what would you think of Christians who were pursuing such a situation- would you class them as "fundamentalist" or just say they were "taking their religion seriously"?

Come to think of it, surely that is an excuse anyone trying to convert someone to Christianity could use, they were just taking their religion "seriously"?

It is against the law for the military to push religion on countries we occupy. First off we are not a Christian Nation so we shouldnt be using our military to represent this.

"WE" are not, individuals may and will

I dont care if these people pray and do ceremonies on their private time and with each other while in the military and over seas. But to intentionally go out and try to convert people is illegal and will play right into the hands of those who hate us and feel that we ARE Christian invaders trying to convert them.

but surely these individuals are just Christians taking their religion "seriously"...........

Originally posted by tjeffersonsghost
You mean my word isnt good enough for you?

clearly some individuals do, but you know what, they look like Christians who are "taking their religion seriously" to me

Originally posted by blueorder

Originally posted by tjeffersonsghost
You mean my word isnt good enough for you?

clearly some individuals do, but you know what, they look like Christians who are "taking their religion seriously" to me

And look at all the bibles. They had to of gotten the money from somewhere to have all those bibles printed for distribution in the arab language. On top of this when the footage was shown to the Pentagon they did nothing. Im not saying there is a grand conspiracy but the government for sure knows this is happening and is indeed looking the other way.

Originally posted by tjeffersonsghost]

And look at all the bibles. They had to of gotten the money from somewhere to have all those bibles printed for distribution in the arab language. On top of this when the footage was shown to the Pentagon they did nothing. Im not saying there is a grand conspiracy but the government for sure knows this is happening and is indeed looking the other way.

Yeah, the govt who are really doing a lot to stem the growth of the Muslim community in their own backyard, the US, seems they took their eye off the ball




Just a few individuals taking their religion "seriously"

Originally posted by tjeffersonsghost
You mean my word isnt good enough for you?

No. No one's is.

- That was quoted from Al-Jazzera. Gee .. no slant to be expected there.

- The military specifically forbids proselytising.

- If there is an Army Chaplain disobeying that direct US Mmilitary Central Command order, then it's just an Army Chaplain disobeying and it's NOT the purpose of the military action there.

It is not clear that the Bibles were distributed to Afghans

U.S. military's Central Command that expressly forbid "proselytising of any religion, faith or practice

Originally posted by tjeffersonsghost
And look at all the bibles. They had to of gotten the money from somewhere to have all those bibles printed for distribution in the arab language.

- How many are 'all the bibles'.

- There are fundamentalist groups who make it their life mission to do that sort of thing. Jack Chick tracts, their version of 'correct' bibles, etc.

Originally posted by FlyersFan

No. No one's is.

- That was quoted from Al-Jazzera. Gee .. no slant to be expected there.

- The military specifically forbids proselytising.

- If there is an Army Chaplain disobeying that direct US Mmilitary Central Command order, then it's just an Army Chaplain disobeying and it's NOT the purpose of the military action there.

Who cares if its from Al Jazeera it doesnt make it any less true. I mean do you REALLY think our MSM would report something like that? If you have a military not following orders they need to be punished. I agree its not government policy to convert or at least I hope its not.

- How many are 'all the bibles'.

- There are fundamentalist groups who make it their life mission to do that sort of thing. Jack Chick tracts, their version of 'correct' bibles, etc.

No doubt you have some hard core religious guys but what separates us from the extremest Muslims is we do not force religion or shove it down peoples throats. We let you worship whoever you want. Its a private issue not a government or military issue. If your in the military Id like to hope you found your god and pray to him while there for the military is an ugly business. But to have bibles printed for the specific reason of conversion....there is no good that can come from this and these people should be punished.

Originally posted by tjeffersonsghost
No doubt you have some hard core religious guys but what separates us from the extremest Muslims is we do not force religion or shove it down peoples throats. We let you worship whoever you want. Its a private issue not a government or military issue. If your in the military Id like to hope you found your god and pray to him while there for the military is an ugly business. But to have bibles printed for the specific reason of conversion....there is no good that can come from this and these people should be punished.

I think you are overstating the effects or the methods of these "converters", I have encountered a few in my time and have not yet been converted nor have I suffered any violence or pyschological problems as a result