Evolution! for every design their is a Designer

I mean to be an Evolutionist, you have to be able to get up look at
everyday anew and completely ignore :

the absolute grand design of everything you do and DON'T see.
because if there's any design in any of it. i might have to face the
FACT that someone somewhere might have created all of this and
me, and that would mean i might have to bow down too someone
and blah blah blah. now how bout that? take it and run!!

if you agree i want to hear about it.
disagree i want to hear bout that to
but if this lil piece turns on a light bulb
or makes you double think for sec be honest and i really want to hear bout that too.

very interested to see where this goes

[edit on 4-6-2009 by randyvs]

I'm perfectly open to the idea of a Creator. I just don't have much to go on apart from the scribblings and beliefs of those who claim to speak for Him/Her. Some of those people are great human beings, full of compassion and love for their fellow man. The only problem is that THEIR faith is based on the scribblings and beliefs of OTHER people who claim to have knowledge of the Creator. And so it continues...

Given the complexity and beauty of the natural world, if there IS a Creator, then I reckon that He/She has done an awesome job of everything EXCEPT for making Himself/Herself known to us on a personal level.

Just my opinion.

reply to post by randyvs


While I partly believe Evolution. I also think that even Evolution can have a grand designer or grand architect.

This is due to the fact that we now have the capability to create programs and robots(nano technology) that can learn and evolve. We can no longer discount the possibility that even evolution did follow a very sophisticated plan or even predicted/calculated schedule dating back billions of years by a highly intelligent entity or a computer...

You can be an Evolutionist but above all, always keep an open mind.. No one is forcing you to bow down to a creator if there is one. I am an inventor myself, do I force people to bow down to me when they use my inventions? NO!

Originally posted by randyvs
... the absolute grand design of everything you do and DON'T see.

I'm actually so glad that you mentioned design of the things we cannot see (Does that mean that God was designed too ?) ...

Since I'm designed without capability to see them, declaring their design would be leap of faith which I'm also not designed to undertake

ever exploding and imploding big-bang
everything is creator and creator is everything
we are one, but not in 3D where time is linear

I'm a programmer, and I design/create systems for a living. Over time, my programs evolve and programs carry many of the same code among them. I see the exact same thing in nature and reality.

If I created a program today called "monkey", and then tomorrow I created a program called "human", then you can bet that the 2 will carry alot of the same code in them.

In the programming world, we have what are called dynamic link libraries. You have probably called them drivers, they are .dll files. But these things are libraries of common code. Code which is so common that is used among a variety of programs. In order to save space and such, since the code is used so much, we keep only 1 copy of that code. And then all the programs which use that library, add a "link" to the library in the code, and then you have access to that library. One thing that is cool about libraries is you can update 1 library and update multiple programs at the same time. IE: Graphics drivers are a commonly used example.

Now when calling this drivers and such in code, you pretty much get a configuration file. While the library itself may have thousands of lines of code, we can generally work with that library in only a few lines of code. This ends up like being a "configuration" effect. Your program is basically configuring the information up to be used with the library.

These libraries in the programming world reside in a different folder usually, aka another "dimension".

So when you look at DNA, what you are basically looking at is a configuration file that would work with other libraries somewhere else. Genetics is really just the reverse engineering of this config files. If you open up a config file to a program, you make 1 little edit and it can have big effects on appearance. Find a line in the config that changes a color, and the color of the app changes. Change the title, looks, function and so forth with a little edit here and there. Change a gene in the DNA, same exact effect.

So, cells are just little self reproducing nanobots that read the DNA code in order to build the physical body. Change the DNA code, and the nanobots change in what they do.

This doesn't mean that survival of the fittest and such doesn't happen. It does. But even with all these changes, the actual code itself isn't change, only the configuration changes.

If anyone plays a game that allows addon's or interface changes, think of it like peoples interface. You can change the config around alot and get things to look and function a bit differently. But the code behind it that runs it stays the same.

Afterall, a small change can have big effects. Take a look at size for example. Let's use a square to be simple. The size of that square is just a change from 10 feet, to 100 feet. And from that minor and simple change, obviously the square has huge changes in the render/physical.

Many unique programs all unique based on the config, but all using the exact same code.

So when I look out in the universe I just see a program. And when you have a program, you have a programmer. Of course, looking for the programmer in the program itself is about like trying to find Bill Gates in your OS.





[edit on 4-6-2009 by badmedia]

reply to post by 5thElement


Who’s to say we are designed without the capability to see our intelligent designer(s)? Our science may one day lead us to that very thing.

Originally posted by Roark
I'm perfectly open to the idea of a Creator. I just don't have much to go on apart from the scribblings and beliefs of those who claim to speak for Him/Her. Some of those people are great human beings, full of compassion and love for their fellow man. The only problem is that THEIR faith is based on the scribblings and beliefs of OTHER people who claim to have knowledge of the Creator. And so it continues...

Given the complexity and beauty of the natural world, if there IS a Creator, then I reckon that He/She has done an awesome job of everything EXCEPT for making Himself/Herself known to us on a personal level.

Just my opinion.

Sorry, but i don't agree with your idea that peoples faith is based on the beliefes of others. Well some might be, but for many people thier faith is based on a personal experience with God.
I know you will find that hard to believe but it is true. many people have had such experiences, myself included.
The funny thing is, that God makes it so simple to have such a relationship with him. All's that he askes is that you believe in him, ask for forgiveness then ask him into your life.
If you are sincere in your asking then believe me, he will show himself to you in a variety of ways. the good thing is he will leave you in no doubt about his existance.

Now the snag is, you need a little bit of faith to begin. Not a lot, about as big as a mustard seed i believe.

God does not make it hard for us to have a relationship with him, the problem lies with us and our hardened hearts towards him..

Give it a go, whats the worst that can happen?

Am i right or wrong, you decide..


[edit on 4-6-2009 by jon1]

I always use the quote, "For every dream, there is a dreamer".

Put yourself in the drivers seat of creation and dream a little.

That's about all I have to say

reply to post by ahnggk


alright! great reply, and thanks for speaking to the point about bowing
down. I'm not thumping or anything but when you have time grab a
bible and check out this verse romans 14-: 11 and 12

Originally posted by NRA4ever333
Who’s to say we are designed without the capability to see our intelligent designer(s)? Our science may one day lead us to that very thing.

Who is to say that if Singularity created entire universe that Universe could not create Life and that very life could not create another one ?

Who is to say that this very process is not happening for the infinite amount of time in infinite amount of locations ?

Who is to say that something like singularity cannot pop into existance on it's own ? Because it confuses our limited logic ? In infinity itself it could be perfectly logical

No one really knows.

Not you.

Not me.

No one ...

To call what we see (and what we don't, lol) a "design" or "program" and degrade it to level of our puny logic is an insult to the Universe itself

[edit on 4-6-2009 by 5thElement]

Originally posted by badmedia
I'm a programmer, and I design/create systems for a living. Over time, my programs evolve and programs carry many of the same code among them. I see the exact same thing in nature and reality.

If I created a program today called "monkey", and then tomorrow I created a program called "human", then you can bet that the 2 will carry alot of the same code in them.

I am a programmer too. But I think what the OP have in mind is evolution by itself in order to adapt to an ever changing environment better WITHOUT direct intervention by human or any intelligent entity.

It's not the exact same process in nature as we see it. One very good example are viruses and they rather mutate/evolve very rapidly, relatively speaking. We don't actually see aliens or black copters, capturing native viruses, tweaking them and returning them back to the wild, far deadlier than before, the viruses do it by themselves or collectively. Of course there are many similar conspiracies regarding that but that is not the purpose of this thread!

Scientists are also eyeing software codes/AI, even robots that can evolve or adapt by themselves. If one day, this becomes mainstream(hopefully doesn't turn against its creators!), then we can no longer discount that evolution can be an intelligent/artificial design as well


[edit on 4-6-2009 by ahnggk]

What ever it is, it is real, we are living, breathing parts of "it".

I am part of it, right now. As are you. We all have this "it" that we a part of. As to how that relationship works, seems to be the storybooks of many a religion across the land.

You are one, all there is... is you. There is nothing else, everything else is just an aspect of you. When the veil crashes, it will be you standing before the mirror. It will be you standing as one, with all that you have ever been.

From one, came many, only to return to one again. It is the way of light, the way of prisms, the way of reality.

The illusion that we are separate is what keeps us away from the truth that we are truly all one.

God and creation are not separate, they are the same. Return to oneness.

reply to post by badmedia


i must say this of your response .PERFECT! you heard what i wanted
through the little bit of retoric that was there. perfect thanks very much.

reply to post by 5thElement


this is a great response!

reply to post by YouAreDreaming


this is absolutly the stuff this thread should have running thruogh it.
i love this kinda stuff. thanks so much.
i

reply to post by jon1


more like this!

reply to post by 5thElement

i dont have an answer for you. but you missed it any way. argumentative

ATS is alive with some very awakened individuals I must say. For me, I have a study from the ground level of reality as a human where I see creation.

It is not easy for me to explain because it steps outside of our rational linear beliefs, but fundamentally it is intrinsic in all of our existences.

I believe we come from Oneness. Call this oneness God if that suits your belief system, or current language. What ever we label it, is simply the challenges of our current language system, and in no way describes it in its entirety.

This oneness, expanded on itself in such a manner by which reality was created. Not just this reality, but many, many realities and reality systems. This oneness was conscious and self-realized. When it created us in it's image, it was not in body.

That is a myth... to think our body looks like the oneness we came from. It was in our consciousness, and our self-realization of being a part of it. As it is consciousness, so are we parts of consciousness. We are parts of it, striving to become one with it again, and to do so requires something very powerful, very real.

How do you dissolve the separation? What key is used to unlock the door and help us return to where we first came? It is a four letter word, and it is called Love.

Love, at the level of oneness, which accepts all unconditionally as parts of itself, as it is a part of them is why love is at the root of our being, and the fundamental realization that we must all have.

Why is it important to care, to be compassionate, to love? If you truly believe in God, and believe that we are all a part of it, one with it... why wouldn't you not want to love everything in existence despite what makes them different from you, or your belief about god.

Love is the bridge from the great divide and walks us home to oneness. That is the only true path to God. And it's a hard path to walk sometimes.

reply to post by Roark


did i say great post ? great post thanks.