Originally posted by Amaterasu
Why is it so important to you to "disprove" The Terra Papers?

It's not that we are trying to disprove the terra papers. It's nothing specific with the papers. It's with everything pandered around as being even remotely true without the slightest shred of evidence that we are questioning.

So far = 0% evidence

You are avoiding peoples questions as well. It's plain to see for everyone involved in this thread.

Thank you atlastro for being so dogged and concise.

Hi Atlas -

But fundamentally you are doing exactly the same as older religions but with a new myth set that is acceptable within a scientific and technologically dominant paradigm.
You are accrediting unseen supernatural beings for the creation of man, you have a myth set, a heir-achy of "higher beings" some good, some bad, you extract the reason for the existence of humans. You get this from a book, told as a story, to a man. Sound familiar? Because it sure does to me!

I don't get that finding genetic manipulation part of our origin as plausible makes it fundamentally anything like religions (dogma).

No one is praying to the DNA. No one is worshiping the DNA and waiting for its omnipotent return. Or declaring the son of DNA is our one true savior. I actually see all this as quite the opposite and freeing from the BS (belief systems). I agree replacing one religion for another is still a religion - but trying to understand history is trying to understand, period.

As for unseen, supernatural beings, their presence (literally) is all around if you know what to look for.

If you are making the assumption that believing we were test tube creations = religion, there's no way to work with your rationale as it's a semantic dodge.

Some good, some bad. Why not? There's good and bad everywhere, what does that have to do with whether or not there's a hidden history?

Proof of what, that they're true? Impossible to prove.

I would also sincerely be interested in what you think are very origins are from? Evolution? God?

Originally posted by akkad
Amaterasu, I enjoyed this thread and I enjoyed reading the Terra Papers. Thankyou for bringing them to my attention.

I can't take them seriously as a reliable source of information, however, because you can't provide the proof that they are genuine, only that you yourself have seen the proof. On balance it's more likely than not that the Papers are made up. That's not to say that I don't belive that some of the story could be true, just that the Terra Papers are unreliable evidence. For example, as it resembles Star Wars so much it needs to be proven beyond any reasonable doubt that it predates Star Wars. And why, when we come to recent times does the narrative become vaguer and less detailed, when it was fantastically detailed in its description of faraway, and unverifiable, events?

Sorry, thread over for me.

Atlasastro, thanks and a star for your efforts.

Thank you, as well. Atlasastro. I guess it doesn't matter...insofar as they are true or they are not, and beliefs are irrelevent. As for the tale that seemed to be "vaguer... Well, I'm thinking that when one is tracing history, it's easy to define the key pieces that led to the present, but once one is in the (generally) present time, there is SO much one could address, and deciding the specifics to bring up - and the fact that the key elements of the initial history become "diluted" in the effect on any specific situation - I can see why the Papers would follow the pattern as you describe.

Thanks again for your input, and the future will bring what truth there is to the fore.

Originally posted by bloodline

Originally posted by Amaterasu
Why is it so important to you to "disprove" The Terra Papers?

It's not that we are trying to disprove the terra papers. It's nothing specific with the papers. It's with everything pandered around as being even remotely true without the slightest shred of evidence that we are questioning.

So far = 0% evidence

You are avoiding peoples questions as well. It's plain to see for everyone involved in this thread.

Thank you atlastro for being so dogged and concise.

Well, I agree that so far, there is onlt corratative evidence, and no specific evidence to be had. If I am "avoiding questions," it is because either I cannot address them or the questions are, in the end, moot.

[shrug]

Thank you for your input.

I pretty much stopped reading around where they describe "fiery explosions" in a vacuum followed by a "shockwave" destroying another space ship. clearly the fantasies of someone with a very poor grasp of physics and reality. is it possible that the ancient gods were extraterrestrials? the odds are not tremendous, but it is possible and it does make sense considering the almost universal identification of gods with the heavens. is it possible that human beings are a genetic experiment? far less likely, but hey if aliens have been visiting there is always a slim chance. are the terra papers possible? sure, if i could breathe in space.

[edit on 18-6-2009 by JScytale]

Originally posted by kshaund

Originally posted by jimminycricket
I watched some of the videos in the past, and while interesting, I just couldn't buy into it, and there was just something odd about the man presenting the ideas, he seemed a bit too much like a dodgy salesman mixed with a fraudulent guru.

Are you sure you were watching Robert Morning Sky? I have been unable to find any videos except for some segments recently on youtube from a way back when workshop... Just wondering ....

The ones I saw where posted by nephratari on media.abovetopsecret.com, but they have since been removed, if you google for

"media.abovetopsecret.com terra papers"

It will show you that they used to be there, anyway, they look very similar to the ones on youtube, I guess it was about an hour long talk.

Originally posted by kshaund
Hi Atlas -

Hi. I know you have invested alot of your own personal time and energy with Robert Morningsky and I value your insights and experiences.
But my discussing the religious nature of the Terra Papers with you is akin to me Knocking on a Church and argueing with a parishioner about the religious nature of the Bible, a book witten by the Grandchildren of Abraham who got the Story from a "being", and it tells the history of man, and that a parishoner telling me that does not make the Bible a religion because that parishoner believes it is the real history of Earth.
But I will answer your post.

I hope your health is holding up too, and this reply finds you as well as possible.

I don't get that finding genetic manipulation part of our origin as plausible makes it fundamentally anything like religions (dogma).

Firstly, what genetic manipulation. Show it too me.
Second. Point out the "creators". Show them to me.
Thirdly, other than a book, point out where I can find evidence of this.
Your belief system is as abstract as every other religion. You cannot show any of this. The content is vastly different, I agree, but the belief systems are fundamentally the same. You just have a Tech and Science update with "genetic manipulations" and "ET's".

No one is praying to the DNA. No one is worshiping the DNA and waiting for its omnipotent return. Or declaring the son of DNA is our one true savior. I actually see all this as quite the opposite and freeing from the BS (belief systems).

You are not free from any belief system, you are just updating an older version. You still rely on Bek Ti's(supernatural ET character) Narative to Robert. You practice a belief in the narative from a supernatural being. Which is now in a Book. What will the next step be? Robert has the Terra Bible now(i mean please).

I agree replacing one religion for another is still a religion - but trying to understand history is trying to understand, period.

Your view of religion is very narrow and restricted to a limited idea. Religion is thought to be the highest of truth, and this is what you claim to have. Religion is a stance, a belief, a personal conviction and a way of life(sounding familar yet) most often surrounding supernatural, devine or metaphysical beings. People don't have to pray to believe in "god" or "dna manipulation" or go to church to be religious.
Your view of your belief is that you are merely "understanding history" you are not understanding history, you are creating a new one from a story apparently told to Roberts grandad, who then told Mr. Morningsky, who then claims it is the real history of the Earth. You believe Mr Morningsky. Lets be clear and honest about that.

As for DNA being your saviour, your playing on Iconography within any one "mythset" to try and distance yourself from traditional belief. You don't need a saviour for your belief to be a religion. Your salvation is that you are now "free" from the system that has been built around you by these "ets".
Also in the case of the Terra Papers, the "creator myth" involves the "El's". That is how you explain Humanity being created, you believe this from a book. No evidence of DNA manipulation. No El's to show. Same with the God of Abraham, no one who uses the bible to explain humanity can show God, or even point to DNA evidence(like in the Intelligent design arguement) of God creating humans.

I have asked repeatedly for Ama to point out the evidence in our DNA, and the ET dna that was used to compare to our own so as to show that we have been genetically engineered. Now I will ask YOU to do the same, as Ama has repeatedly ignored this question.

As for unseen, supernatural beings, their presence (literally) is all around if you know what to look for.

Lol. You are proving my point. Christians will tell you they can hear God, if you will only listen. If you could show me or anyone else these beings, you would have by now. But you can't, why is that? These beings that a literally here, you cannot literally show them. Why not?

If you are making the assumption that believing we were test tube creations = religion, there's no way to work with your rationale as it's a semantic dodge.

What exactly am I dodging. The fact that you have a belief from a book, a story. That this story explains humanity and our existence to you and you believe it, and that as I have stated before as my opinion, that this is exactly what religious people do with the bible, the Koran, the torah, the Vedas etc etc etc and that you, like these other religious books, cannot show your "el's" or "dna manipulation" anymore that christians, jews or muslims can show God.
Because I am not dodging that.
I'm not Dodging the fact that the Papers resemble many other peoples work.
I am not dodging that there is no evidence of the Terra Papers until the 90's.
I am not dodging Robert having to add "hypotheticals and linguistic interpretations" to the papers.
Yet when I ask about what DNA evidence and many other questions, to support the Terra Papers. I get all sorts of dodging. Mostly the IGNORE THESE HARD QUESTIONS kind of dodge.

Some good, some bad. Why not? There's good and bad everywhere, what does that have to do with whether or not there's a hidden history?

The very Idea of good and bad is bound up in religion. That is why I mention it. It is also central to nearly all religious naratives, cultural mythologies etc. It is just another curious trait that leads me to the opinion I hold. If you can manage to endure reading Kant and Nietzche or some determanists, you will gather different insights into "good and bad" and religion but I warn you they are hazardous if you indulge in them as absolutes, like any religious or philosophical texts.

Proof of what, that they're true? Impossible to prove.

Then how do you believe it as being the truth? How can you possibly know if it is the truth if it is impossible to prove? How did you prove it to yourself?

I would also sincerely be interested in what you think are very origins are from? Evolution? God?

I am still asking those questions. I know the Terra Papers did not answer them. Even remotely. I guess that makes us different.

I know one thing for certain. Those that tell you they have the truth, are everywhere, but all with something different.

But you REALLY have the truth?
Good for you.




[edit on 20-6-2009 by atlasastro]

Originally posted by kshaund

Terra Papers aren't the only source - there are dozens of authors who have written about the alien intervention of our DNA. Dr. Arthur Horn, Zecharia Sitchin, Hancock & Bauvel, Michael Behe (Darwin's Black Box) explains how evolution of us is impossible -

Sitchin has been shown to be wrong IMHO.
Behe was tested in court and his irriducible complexity theory that is used by Intelligent Design advocates to support a belief in God, and now you to support a belief in Aliens, was shown to be miss guided if not plainly wrong. There is ample evidence to show that Behe is wrong in his opinion. Have you endeavoured to look for criticism of Sitchin or Behe to gain a balanced view in the matters that these two individuals advocate?
I have found it useful to search for all oposing opinions when I choose to accept the opinions of others and intergrate these opinions into what I believe. It is hard sometimes but it does help give you gain a balanced view from many different angles.

Whilst I agree that there are many mysteries regarding the origins and evolution of life, this only supports a belief in Aliens because you insert Alien into the equation as the explanation for these mysteries. Ever heard the phrase "god of the Gaps". It is a term used when in abscence of more knowledge or the complete understanding of issues like our origins, our DNA etc, people insert "god". We are seeing more and more people inserting "ets" now.
I agree that I could be wrong, about both the Abrahamic God and Aliens, but at the moment it is a trend I am observing that seems to be God being replaced by Aliens.

it had to be intervention - likened us evolving as likely as throwing all the parts to a motorcycle into a garage and a million years later the thing puts itself together, fills its tank and voila - a motorcycle is born.

In Micheal Behe's theory, complex organisms that are reduced by removing parts of the complexity fail to function as we observe them. What Behe failed to consider was that the function we observed as the end product of such complexity was not necessarily exactly the same all the time as that organism developed over time. So, when elements of complexity are removerd, they are still functional as organism, just not as we knew them when observing them as complete and highly complex organisms.

Like the Motorbike analogy, we observe all the seperate parts and wonder how as individual pieces did they form a motorbike, a motorbike incapable of functioning if we reduce it by one complex part. But Behe assumes that without that one part, makes the motorbike useless, but in evolution theory this i not the observed case, as in this theory the motorbike is capable of performing other functions, just not the ones we assume it should be performing because we see it as the end result, the complete and complex end product. The theory that argues against Behe, has been shown to be true and is observed in nature. You will find this simply, if you search. It has been discussed vigorously here on ATS. It is a very interesting subject.

Proof? - no, not proof, all this stuff to me (including Terra Papers "SUPPORTS" a different history), doesn't prove it.

How dose it support a different theory? None of it is provable. This i why it seems rather religious to me. The Bible "supports" a belief in God. Can you see the comparisons.

Aliens? As fetuses in the first few weeks we all have a tail that then disappears. We have part of our brain called the reptilian cortex, why is that?

Have you bothered to look for the answer? Or do you only filter what you want to see and hear from the perspective of a belief that it is Aliens? The reptilian complex(cortex) is one of the oldest parts of the brain that all mammals share. It is observed through out a wide range of fossil records and its development can be shown in stages and plateaus through all phyla groupings amongst the animal kingdom.
How do you explain the Neo Cortex and Limbic systems. If we are genetically engineerd it is these systems that seperate us from many other animals and mammals. Especially the Neo-cortex which is where our higher reasoning takes place, behaviour and activity such as talking and memory, where we form concepts etc.

Races throughout history have virtually disappeared and another one sprung up completely unrelated (we're talking Cro-Magnon and before) many times in history, not just once. How could that be without genetic manipulation?

The dinosaurs dissapeared, was that Genetic manipulation? Species disapear everyday now! Is that genetic manipulation. Look at the amount of species that become extinct every year, there are many causes for these extinctions, mainly environmental ones, competition, change, inability to adapt to change, rates of change overcoming species, polution, introduced species, disease etc etc.
On the same token new species are found all the time too, plants, bacteria, birds.

Recently they discovered aborigines aren't actually even related to us - they have their 'own' DNA. These things lend support to the premise of alien intervention - I don't believe I've ever said it's proof -

Can you link this please. I would greatly appreciate that.

There's less than 2% difference in the DNA of us and Bonobo apes.

How does that support Aliens any more than evolution. With the abscence of an explainable Abiogenesis and no showable Aliens to account for the beginning, it still comes down to a belief in intervention, be it in a supernatural God, or Aliens. Religion.

Now through DNA they find whales are related to hippopotamus - there seems to be a basic "muffin mix" used with variations between here and there.

I agree that life seems to be using what it finds successful over and over again and that there are many variations based on templates, but show me where the Aliens are in all this. I find this topic facinating and I have been following the human genome project, but we just don't know do we. That is why we believe in "outside causes", be they "gods" or "aliens".
Your arguements are identical to Intelligent Design arguements in the Origins Conspiracy forum. You really should have a look in that forum.

The thing is, I had a gut feeling since I can remember that aliens have something to do with this - after thirty plus years of reading books, talking to authors and researchers and channelers, etc. (Yep, I ran the new age gammut too) - and it was when I read the Terra Papers everything else I'd read or learned that didn't make sense, now did.

Good for you. I have read similar sentiments amongst born again Christians and converts to the Islamic Tradition that are weary of western Ideals etc

I think our souls have been trapped, that's my concern

Add a worthy one to be concerned over, especially because it is evident you care about all our souls collectively. Fundamentally though this is a spiritual one dealt with mainly by traditional religious beliefs.

I presume the ultimate truth is we are all part of "Creation of All That Is" and so everything in between is distortions, separations from that.

We cannot be seperate from the universe, I agree with you. We are fundamentally part of a much greater existence that, being finite visceral humans, perhaps limits our ability to truely grasp it entirely.

I haven't stopped looking for answers, I just have different questions now.

I know where you are at.

Could Robert have been lied to by Bek Ti? Absolutely! Could Robert be lying? Absolutely! I just haven't found anything better to explain this mess we're in.

Fair enough. I find that I understand these topic as being religious in nature, and that helps me explain things too.


Thanks for your reply, I enjoyed your honest responses and appreciate the time you took to reply to my post.
Cheers.