Originally posted by atlasastro
Thank You for your reply.

Originally posted by Amaterasu

I'm thinking I can point to the link(s) that would show Lucas and Campbell together at Skywalker Ranch... But, y'know. I tire of this and will say, "You're right."

End of argument. [whew!]

Those that hold the truth never tire of defending it.

Unless it's a clear impasse, then the effort becomes moot.

I can point to alot of links to Ama, you are trying to link Campbell, his hopi studies Luca and Star Wars as an excuse as to why the Terra Papers is strikingly similar.
That is the Point.
You have a photo, but claim that photo represents Campbell as a Mentor who inspired Hopi culture into george Lucas' Star Wars and that is why the Terra Papers are the so simillar. That is a big, big leap.

First, it was FOOTAGE, and second, in it Campbell and Lucas were together and Lucas called Campbell his "mentor." I would find the link, but I am having connection issues and youtube just sits and cranks, bringing nothing back.

When you need to make leaps like that, it is generally because the gaps in your story are big.

Your are point blank misleading people.

If you read my posts it will become clear that all I have done is SPECULATE. Given that Lucas called Campbell his mentor, I SPECULATED that there was a link.

Speculation is NOT "misleading."

Campbell gave Lectures at the Lucas Ranch, on Mythology, Mythts, made up stories. Like Star Wars and dare I say the Terra Papers. He only met Lucas in 1983, it was his book The Hero With a Thousand Faces published in 1949 that inspired Lucas.

Given this, we might presume they were good friends, too... Also, a great many "myths" are founded in truth. (The city of Troy was thought to be pure "myth," until they unearthed it, as one of many such examples.)

I don't care that you think I am right or wrong. I care about people telling the truth.
Which you are not doing.

I am telling the truth I know. It is in conflict with yours. Impasse. So again, I'll just say "You're Right." Can we end the argument now?

If you have to weave your own myth regarding Campbell, Lucas, Hopi Mythology and why the Terra Papers remind people of Lucas' epic, then quite frankly you are lying and misleading people.

See above about SPECULATION.

Terra papers came out in the 90's.

According to you.

Campbell wrote his Comparative Mythology tome in 1949.

Which did not contain AR ships (Death Stars)...so is irrelevant to the speculation at hand.

Lucas had signed Star Wars in 1971 as a two movie deal.

Yeah...

He Met Campbell in 1983, and Campbell Died in 1987.

Yeah...

Terra Papers were released in the Mid 90's.

According to you.

Facts.

Some are, some are educated guesses, given that evidence is currently lacking for the Papers' origin earlier than the mid 90's. But this does not mean that all evidence is collected, nor does it mean that there is no evidence to find.

2009, people who point out that the Terra Papers are strikingly similar to Star Wars are hit with YOUR disinformation and propoganda in the shape of myth and lies explaining that Campbell who was facinated by Hopi culture(he was facinated by every culture infact) influenced Lucas' epic trilogy and that is why Terra Papers (which is claimed to pre-date Star Wars but does not in any way shape or form appear anywhere until the 90's) are similar.

I challenge you to find where I said he was "fascinated with the Hopi culture." I am sure you will not find it. What I DID say is that he spent a lot of time with the Hopi. (Truth.) I am fully aware that all "myth" called to him. I also am aware that Lucas used many sources of inspiration.

You do not mention any of this when offering your explanation because it does not support your beliefs.

No... I don't mention it because it is irrelevant to where Lucas MIGHT have gotten the idea for the Death Star.. That is the ONLY aspect in question. I don't need to add all that extraneous s# to address THIS SINGLE POINT.

You want people to know the "truth".
Yet you go a long way about bending it to suit the Terra Papers.
If you have to do this, bend or mislead facts then YOUR truth does not stand on its own as itself, the Truth.

It is you who are bending my words. Claiming I was stating that Campbell DID tell Lucas about the info that is found in the Papers. When never did I do so. Let's think on "truth," then.

Which places you and the Terra Papers in the realm of fiction.

No. It places you in a position to be suspected of reading comprehension issues.

[edit on 6/8/2009 by Amaterasu]

Originally posted by Amaterasu challenge you to show me where I gave ANY support to Sitchen. I don't believe *I* brought him up except in passing in response to another's mention of Sitchen.

I don't know whether the "experts" who correct Sitchen are good "experts" or those who just cannot deal with Sitchen's interpretation and scrabbled to find other ways to interpret to avoid what was being said.

Do you even know what Sitchins expertise in this field is? It is zero. No knowledge of sumerian and arkkadian languages, nor any in ancient history. But yeah I know all the other "experts are wrong". Including all the translators and scholars that have ever worked translating ancient texts from these era's. Only Sitchin is right.
You have brought him up a number of times, look at my last post, where I show your posts from other threads, you bring him up on your own, totally unsolicited. You have to do this because Mr MorningSky' work is very similar to Sitchens interpretations(Enki etc). You infer that this is because Sitchins is predated by the Terra Papers(which cannot be proven other than a claim from the author).

I have provided links to the "experts". I also mentioned you are free to email and challenge, some or all of their findings on Sitchins work, it is not so much a critique of Sitchin as much as saying, that this is what the Tablets really say, this is where Sitchin inserts the "aliens, planets, rockets etc". Have you read the sumerian texts YOURSELF? You will see that they actually do not match the Terra Papers at all. It is ONLY Sitchins work that resembles the Terra Papers, after he redefined certain key words from the original text. So it is important that Sitchin be correct, otherwise the similarities in both the works becomes highly questionable. IMHO.
Anyone who accepts the Terra Papers would have to accept that Sitchin is right in his interpretation, but that MorningSky' work pre-dated it.
Sitchins interpretion of the summerian texts, that much of the Terra Papers are similar too, are wrong(which it is shown to be) then the Hidden History eluded to in the Terra Papers, that is recorded in the Summerian Texts as per the hidden ET agenda, is also wrong.
Feel free to look at the link in my post. The Full CV is available of the "expert". Feel free to challenge any of his findings via email, his work in this feild, and any errors, mistakes, or "speculation.

Yup. I said that, as part of speculation.

Yeah, ok. LOL. You sure need to speculate alot about the Terra papers. Apparently its a Hidden Truth that makes sense of the world. Well, one speculates.

Nope. Guess my SPECULATION is off.

Its not off, its wrong, incorrect, unfounded, poorly researched, and then presented as "likely, Probable and suspected to be". In fact you just regurgitate it. You got it somewhere else.
I'll just speculate that you were telling lies. As you do it often, all over ATS, on many threads.

You're right

You bet I am. The Terra Papers are fiction.

Yeah. So. What is your point? Ah, F# it. You're right.

That you make stuff up. opps sorry "speculate", "suspect", "its likely" all over the place. Unsolicited, on que, as per the routine to support your belief in the Terra Papers.

If you choose to read it (link in my sig), keep in mind that it was written in the mid 1970's, long before Star Wars, Sitchen or things like The Gods of Eden. I bring this up because there is something in them that will remind you specifically of Star Wars, and generally of these others' works.

Look how many excuses you need to make Ama. Just look. You also say the Terra Papers were written mid 70's?????
Have another look. This is where you mention Sitchin, on your own, unsolicited. The Terra papers are not even discussed on this thread until your post here. Look at all those similarities you need to excuse.

Excellent job of hunting down my quotes.

Thanks. It is quite easy actually. I just typed in your whole speech routine on Campbell, Lucas and the Hopi. Bingo. Popped up all over the place. Funny hey. Yeah...I know, I'm right.
Religious people are habitual in their practices. Like quoting from their own personal dogma and doctrine.

I am not the only one seeing patterns here you know. It is a conspiracy site after all Ama. What did you expect?

Geez, dude. EVERYWHERE I use terms like "seemingly," "likely," "perhaps..." That is SPECULATION. No "passing off" creppola. That is YOU seeing that. But whatever. You're right.

It is crap. Because now you know your "geez I suspect, and its likely, and perhaps" is crap.
Because now you know campbell only mey Lucas in 1983.
Lucas was influenced by one certain Campbell work.
This work, and Campbells other works do not mention, at all, this "secret hopi story" of the hidden history.
So, now you know that what you "speculate, what you seem to see as likely, or perhaps is" is actually crap.
It took me 30 minutes to find all the information about Campbell and Lucas. You didn't think to inform anyone that you had no real truth behind your speculation, you were just throwing it out there as "being possible, as being likely, that you suspected it so" without actually really knowing at all if it was likely, or possible.
You just made it up. A myth.

Hahahahaha! As if the "truth" is never shown to be not the truth by virtue of additional evidence coming in. Whatever, again. You're right.

LOL. Yes you can apply your excuse anyway you want, but we are dealing with specifics, and you know it.
But, Cool. Well when new evidence that shows Campbell meeting Lucas somewhere before 1983.....it will change the Truth.
When You can find Campbell sharing his Hopi secret stories in his books or other works....it will change the truth.
Until then, the TRUTH is the TRUTH. It is not likely or, when speculated on perhaps different. These are facts, so now you can start telling the TRUTH.

If you will quit calling my ASSESSMENTS "religion." I worship no one, I have no dogma, I evaluate the data against the possible explanations and have an answer that works.

It is a religious belief. You just don't know it yet.
The bible was a story passed down from a suprenatural being to humans.
Sumerian text.
The Vedas.
Amatsu-Kami
Amen, Ra, Anubis blah blah
The Torah.
The Koran
....on and on.
The Terra Papers.
Abstract beings passing on the Knowledge of the Universe. An explanation for the creation of man, the purpose of mans existence etc.
Mans purpose here on earthetc etc. I can go on. Bek Ti, God, Jesus, Angels, Zeus,Thor, Horus, ... on and on.
You bought it hook line and sinker.
You think you are different because there is no organisation around YOUR book.
But you are already acting like a follower.
You are actively spreading the Dogma.
You are actively preaching the word.
You actively deny the obvious flaws pointed out in the dogma and doctrine you have adopted. You are already creating myths to explain your Dogma. Sorry, I forgot. Speculating.

You are caught up in the cultural shift between technology and science and older traditional beliefs and paradigms, a shift that fits comfortably in the middle of these two.
We are slowly replacing Old Gods with new ones.
These new ones are accepted as being possible when we look through our culture that is now dominated by science and technology.
Science and Technology that tells us that ET can exist. That it is possible. That is why you have accepted this, because you think it IS possible.
Is that not all possible. We are creating new myth sets. Your new one is Bek Ti. We have Scientology, Urantia, Raelism, GFL, Ashtar Command.....seeing a pattern yet?

Anyway, Whilst you ask everyone to read the Terra Papers and question themselves, Ask yourself this.

How do you know Bek Ti was telling the truth? Is it not possble that Bek Ti was lying?
Is it not possible he made the story up to suit an agenda to mislead us? Is it not possible that Morningsky has made it up? All these are possible? You need faith to believe because you cannot know for sure. Can you? It just feels right to you against other explanations, but it is possible all the explanations are wrong! Its just that one feels right to You now.

Religion.

So if you will cut THAT creppola, I'll contemplate a change in my verbiage.

Eh. Never mind. You're right.

Don't bother. I know where these religious discussions end. Contemplate? I'd call it more blind speculation on your part. That is what the religious do. They speculate why their religion does not make sense, and then they fill in the gaps.

Izanagi wants his left eye back.





See button, push button. repeat. Button=religion.

[edit on 10-6-2009 by atlasastro]

Read them last night.

There really interesting and I think the guy is a genius or he did receive this info from a truthful source.

Either way the problem with this information if it is correct is that how do we know the "alien" who told this guy was telling the truth.

There seems to be info then counter info that I don't know who I'd believe.



Remember: Believe all what you see and half what you hear until you see it!

Originally posted by atlasastro

We are slowly replacing Old Gods with new ones.

You think I am "replacing" the Gods of old with new Gods!?!?!?!?!?

That is insane. I am accepting the fact that we were genetically created by extraterrestrials, and am stepping forward as an equal Individual of Sentience. Man, you don't get my point AT ALL!

Anyway, Whilst you ask everyone to read the Terra Papers and question themselves, Ask yourself this.

How do you know Bek Ti was telling the truth? Is it not possble that Bek Ti was lying?

LOLOL! I HAVE! And I could sense many missing and twisted points. No, I don't think he told the complete truth, but he did give us a lot of truth, nonetheless. That is why I NEVER say they ARE the truth. Just the closest we have at this time to the truth.

Ok. I decided to address these, after rethinking the effort to address you.

The rest of your post... Whatever. You don't get it and that's all there is to say.

[edit on 6/10/2009 by Amaterasu]

Originally posted by hey1212
Read them last night.

There really interesting and I think the guy is a genius or he did receive this info from a truthful source.

Either way the problem with this information if it is correct is that how do we know the "alien" who told this guy was telling the truth.

There seems to be info then counter info that I don't know who I'd believe.



Remember: Believe all what you see and half what you hear until you see it!

Oh, as I siad above. I don't grant the Papers infallibility. But I DO think that we were given the clearest picture yet.

i dunno...ive read a few of the Terra papers...according to me there are just too many inconsistencies...
Sure...there moght be some truth behind it...but some of it seems as if it comes out of Star Wars (was it about the death star) and the ship that is as big as a planet...i dunno..
i dont buy it

LOL, and after you starred the highroad comment. Tsk Tsk.
Thank you for your reply Ama, I am sure you will find the following on topic and
supportive of why I do not feel the Terra Papers are real, but a work of fiction.

I knew you would answer the question about Bek Ti. Your attachment to the Figures of authority in your chosen religious belief will insist that you protect the values you have placed on the "truth" derived from the Authority figures within your religious belief.

You simply could not help yourself. Even after you posted your "You're right" post.

Originally posted by Amaterasu
You think I am "replacing" the Gods of old with new Gods!?!?!?!?!?

That is insane. I am accepting the fact that we were genetically created by extraterrestrials, and am stepping forward as an equal Individual of Sentience. Man, you don't get my point AT ALL!

I get your point. You are stepping forward as an equal individual of sentience who believes that a book says that ET's genetically created us. That is your religion.

Oh....LOL.
Its a Fact now too.
LOL. Gold. No, fools gold, religious gold.

See how you replace traditional myths of creation, Old Gods with your new " ET aliens" in YOUR new creation myth for man. You see this as a fact. We have had myths for ages, you just have add new creator in your myth that fits within our contemporary culture.
And all you have is a book. Religion.
All you have is a story. A Religious Myth.

BTW, how are we genetically created by ET? What have you compared our DNA to that leads you to believe our DNA is created by ET? What Alien DNA have you seen when compared to Our DNA that leads you to this belief?
Actually, don't worry. Here is your standard reply to anything that questions the validity of your dogma:
Yeah, Yeah, whatever! It's in the book, it's a fact, whatever, your right! Ever an everwhat and whatever what, ever?

LOLOL! I HAVE! And I could sense many missing and twisted points. No, I don't think he told the complete truth, but he did give us a lot of truth, nonetheless.

I'll stop you there after nonetheless, None the less you say about the Terra Papers Bek Ti ommitting, twisting points and not telling the Truth.
It is none the less the truth, you are willing to accept "some truths", but you are suspicious of missing truths and twisted points?
Kind of like people who believe in God and Jesus, but don't believe that God made the world in 7 days, or Noah built the Ark etc. That these where just twisted, or half truths but in general the Bible is the truth.
I get you now.

How can you possibly know then, what is fact or fiction?

How can you know what the complete truth is?

You say that you don't think Bek Ti tells the complete truth?

How can you know he told any truth?

The other question is, how do you know Robert Morningsky has not twisted and left out the truth, and has not told the whole truth?

Again you can't.

As the Terra Papers were handed down by Robert, who had it told to him by his Grandfather there are now Three individuals who may have been Ommitting, Twisting and not telling the whole truth. All of them may have changed the story.

How do you explain that Robert is now adding to the Terra Papers with Hypotheticals, interpretations and added linguistic shenanigans. How do you know he has not been doing that from the Start?

BTW, you fit in here when you twist, omit and don't tell the whole truth regarding Star Wars, Campbell and Lucas. Spin your Sumerian, Sitchin and Gods of Eden why the Terra papers is simlar myth etc.

That is why I NEVER say they ARE the truth. Just the closest we have at this time to the truth.

Religion.

It works like this. Culturally, with the influence of science and technology, we are questioning older gods that sit outside of a science and technology that find it impossible to prove, they are too abstract for this new dominant technlogical and scientific paradigmn.
Enter ET's. Science and technology see these as being possible. Old gods out. Et's in. We now get new myth sets explaining Creation, The Universe, Existence, explaining our old religions and cultures. We are updating. This is happening to many traditional spiritual realms. Channelers are now channeling Aliens, People are being Abducted where we used to have possessions, orbs are now UFO's instead of Ghost or poltergeist from the spirit realm. Re-incarnated souls are now from Other Planets and Galaxies instead of People from the past. It is happening right across the spectrum of spiritual and supernatural beliefs.

These seem closer to the truth to you because of the dominant paradigmn that says that "yes, Et's creating us seems more closer to the truth than some bearded floating all powerful dude named "Yahweh".
You are caught in it.
You just think you are different because you now think your new Gods are fact. Listen to yourself. Fact.

Originally posted by Amaterasu
You think I am "replacing" the Gods of old with new Gods!?!?!?!?!?

........ I am accepting the fact that we were genetically created by extraterrestrials,

Ok. I decided to address these, after rethinking the effort to address you.

Whatever, it was because I hit a nerve. Because you need to protect your religious beliefs.

The rest of your post... Whatever.

LOL. You mean all the facts. All those questions that I have concerning your religious belief.

You don't get it and that's all there is to say.

Really?
I get it.
I got you pages ago.
When I called you on spreading myths.
I got you when I noticed that you do this, over, and over, and over again. That can be found on threads all over ATS, on threads where your speculation is injected totally unsolicited or asked for. That is not speculation. That is spreading dis-information.
I got you.

I got you when you excused yourself as merely speculating when in fact, it took me just 30 minutes to actually do a little bit of research on your "likely suspicions of probables" to find out that infact it was impossible.

You say this: "you just don't get me" . This is not the case. I understand your religion. You just can't handle that your belief is religious in nature. So therefor, it must be my "not getting you".
You just have a narrow view of religion. Dare I say an Ignorance.

I am guessing you have a strong dislike of traditional and more formal or organised religions.
This is what you define as "religion". These more culturally accepted norms of beliefs in supernatural entities, beings, deities etc.
But you are doing this too.

Your Gospel Messenger is Bek Ti. Your Gods, the creation ET's. The Genesis Science of the EL's.
Your Dogma, Terra Papers.
The only difference is that your belief has not reached a critical mass where your belief is seen as culturally acceptable.
You are currently endeavouring for the Terra Papers Book, its messenger and its Gods, to get cultural acceptance by spreading it, encouraging others to read it. By endorsing the "truths" you have found in it. By labling it "the truth or the closet thing to it you will read". By saying that it is Fact. When you cannot possible know if it really is.

You just feel that this is right. You "sensed it". That is faith. That, Amaterasu is Religion.



You'll have to accept my appeciation of your final assinine "whatever" in advance.
I have come to recognise your inability to confront the Religious nature of the Terra Papers and the beliefs inspired by them.
We'll call it an Impasse at the crossraods of your dogma.

Thanks again for your whatevers.


Izanagi still wants his left eye back.



P.S. I starred your "you're right post". I bet if felt good when you saw that little stamp of approval. I thought Annee should have starred it anyway.

[edit on 11-6-2009 by atlasastro]