The Terra Papers - Fact or Fiction, page 2

reply to post by Amaterasu

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Instead of creating a new thread.. you should have just added to the existing one. I have no firm belief on the terra papers, however my gut says they are bogus.

Originally posted by NephraTari
reply to post by Amaterasu

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Instead of creating a new thread.. you should have just added to the existing one. I have no firm belief on the terra papers, however my gut says they are bogus.

I doubt there are few subjects that don't already have existing threads.

There are also lots of already existing threads on Starseeds.

Sometimes I support a fresh start is needed. Perhaps with a different perspective.

reply to post by Amaterasu

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I have read the Terra Papers, and conclude they are an act of fiction. The author steals from a variety of sources, including Star Wars (the Death Star), Battlestar Galactica, Zecharia Sitchin and others. Many who support them claim author Robert Morning Sky wrote them before those 1970s shows and books, but they have yet to prove it as Mr Morning Sky did not release the papers until the early 1990s. He claims they were for a university term paper, but they are written on a sixth grade level, which would not be very acceptable to any college professor.

It does seem like Mr Morning Sky was into all the New Age shows and pop culture of the 1970s when he decided to write the papers and call them real.

If they are real, where is the body of the alien who lived among his people? Where is the other proof of the alien encounter?

The good news is that the papers are a short novella so they do not take much time to read. The bad news is that it is an hour I will never get back.

There are a number of dubious claims being made in this thread. This is not to mention the laughable fact Amaterasu dismisses the site critical of Morning Sky (insofar as to imply they are disinfo agents) as not having proof, but has no problem accepting the Terra Papers despite a lack of proof, taking Morning Sky’s claims on face-value.

Originally posted by kenton1234
I read those papers and they are almost verbatim to the sumerian text.(fantastic read by the way)

Are they now? Could you perhaps tell us which Sumerian story the Terra Papers are supposedly mirror verbatim? Show us the actual legend and stories.

Originally posted by Amaterasu
The Papers were originally submitted to a college class in the late '60's. This was before much of the Sumerian Tablets were translated. That should be worth something.

First, is there any evidence Morning Sky wrote these when he said he did? He did not release them until 1995 at the earliest, according to this pro-Morning Sky post.

Second, scholars have been reading Sumerian for well over 100 years. The claim these were written before much of Sumerian language was translated is outright false. Source

Samuel Noah Kramer produced his treatise on Sumerian Mythology in 1944.

Originally posted by Amaterasu
“Joseph Campbell… was George Lucas's friend and mentor”

While the Hero with a Thousand Faces was an influence on Lucas while he was writing the first Star Wars movies, the influence was not on story or imagery, but in motifs. It was the idea of the monomyth that influenced Lucas, the story, imagery and concepts of the movie were his creation.

“It was very eerie because in reading The Hero with a Thousand Faces I began to realize that my first draft of Star Wars was following classic motifs...so I modified my next draft [of Star Wars] according to what I'd been learning about classical motifs and made it a little bit more consistent...”

Source

Originally posted by Amaterasu
So instead of thinking it is somehow a ripoff, think that Star Wars borrowed from the Hopi stories of an ET giving the history of the Earth.

You keep repeating iterations of this claim, but have nothing to back it up. I challenge you to produce any Hopi legend (not what Morning Sky says is Hopi legend, provide another source) that resembles anything like in Star Wars or the Terra Papers.


[edit on 4-6-2009 by DoomsdayRex]

Originally posted by kidflash2008
reply to post by Amaterasu

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I have read the Terra Papers, and conclude they are an act of fiction. The author steals from a variety of sources, including Star Wars (the Death Star), Battlestar Galactica, Zecharia Sitchin and others.

Whoa, whoa, whoa! They were written BEFORE Star Wars AND Sitchen's stuff. Who might be using whose information? As for Battlestar Galactic... I didn't see a connection (except in the sense that things happened in outer space. What others did you have in mind?

Many who support them claim author Robert Morning Sky wrote them before those 1970s shows and books, but they have yet to prove it as Mr Morning Sky did not release the papers until the early 1990s.

Aside from the fact that I have had contact with someone - and LOTS of discussions with them - who was good friends with Mr. Morning Sky around the time the Papers were initially submitted in his college class. She has assured me that yes, they were written in the late 1960's, as they had already been written when she was hanging out with him in 1970.

I have enough data from her to feel confident that she was not lying.

He claims they were for a university term paper, but they are written on a sixth grade level, which would not be very acceptable to any college professor.

??? Really? You think so? I surely don't. Though they show that writing was not his strong suit, they looked like something a college kid might write who was not a writer. [shrug]

It does seem like Mr Morning Sky was into all the New Age shows and pop culture of the 1970s when he decided to write the papers and call them real.

Not according to the data I have. Seems he went "new-agey" subsequent to the submission of the paper in college.

If they are real, where is the body of the alien who lived among his people? Where is the other proof of the alien encounter?

From my understanding, Bek'Ti lived for a while with the Hopi, and then left. I have no data as to what became of him/her/it. As to what other evidence you're looking for, I can't think of any that would be available.

I mean, Bek'Ti took him/her/itself and his/her/its device with with him/her/it when he/she/it left. The military cleaned up the crash site... What's left but the information we have?

The good news is that the papers are a short novella so they do not take much time to read. The bad news is that it is an hour I will never get back.

Well, you are welcome to conclude what you wish, but by my reconning, and my gut as well, they are the truth. They accord with the Summerian Tablets, which were just beginning to be translated when the Papers were written.

And if they are the truth, I think we need to base our actions in this world on the data we have been given.

Thanks for your reply.

Originally posted by NephraTari
reply to post by Amaterasu

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Instead of creating a new thread.. you should have just added to the existing one. I have no firm belief on the terra papers, however my gut says they are bogus.

I am trying to see who believes the information in the Papers (and address any misconceptions). Somehow adding at the end of old threads of 25 or 30 pages does not seem as likely to provide me with that information.

This is why I started this thread. It looked like a better bet.

Originally posted by DoomsdayRex
There are a number of dubious claims being made in this thread. This is not to mention the laughable fact Amaterasu dismisses the site critical of Morning Sky (insofar as to imply they are disinfo agents) as not having proof, but has no problem accepting the Terra Papers despite a lack of proof, taking Morning Sky’s claims on face-value.

Excuse me, but I have a lot more data than merely Mr. Morning Sky's word. Laugh away. I know I have a good set of data.

Originally posted by Amaterasu
The Papers were originally submitted to a college class in the late '60's. This was before much of the Sumerian Tablets were translated. That should be worth something.

First, is there any evidence Morning Sky wrote these when he said he did? He did not release them until 1995 at the earliest, according to this pro-Morning Sky post.

Yes. I have had a great number of discussions from one who was (is) a friend of his back in 1970. She and I began our discourse shortly after I learned of the Papers. She was aware of them in 1970.

Yes, in an effort to spread the information they were released as a booklet later in his efforts to inform us all. But the original work was from 1968 or 69.

Second, scholars have been reading Sumerian for well over 100 years. The claim these were written before much of Sumerian language was translated is outright false. Source

You must have missed the fact that I did NOT say "the Sumerian language." I said the "Sumerian Tablets," which are STILL being translated.

You're working awfully hard to call me a liar.

Originally posted by Amaterasu
“Joseph Campbell… was George Lucas's friend and mentor”

While the Hero with a Thousand Faces was an influence on Lucas while he was writing the first Star Wars movies, the influence was not on story or imagery, but in motifs. It was the idea of the monomyth that influenced Lucas, the story, imagery and concepts of the movie were his creation.

And you can say for sure that he did not develop his "Death Star" based on information from Campbell because...? If Campbell told Lucas not to reveal any of the source, but did tell him the information he learned from the Hopi, I would expect it to influence Lucas in creating his work. And he wouldn't be mentioning the source of the idea, now would he?

Originally posted by Amaterasu
So instead of thinking it is somehow a ripoff, think that Star Wars borrowed from the Hopi stories of an ET giving the history of the Earth.

You keep repeating iterations of this claim, but have nothing to back it up. I challenge you to produce any Hopi legend (not what Morning Sky says is Hopi legend, provide another source) that resembles anything like in Star Wars or the Terra Papers.

It can hardly be a "legend" if it arrived via Bek'Ti in 1947, and if the Hopi have kept the secrets in trust, they aren't going to be blabbing them to some paleface, now are they?

There is nothing but the plethora of ancient writings that speak of "airplanes" and other technological wonders that we have only recently recreated in our present-day world. There is nothing but the seemingly crazy things that are explained when taking the Papers into account. There is nothing but the Sumerian Tablets...

But you believe as you wish.

Thanks for responding to my thread.

I too have read the papers and I did enjoy the story. Weather or not they are real is the biggest question in my head.

As I was reading thru it I noticed that it is not the history of the universe. In the begining it just basicly syas that there are a lot of planets and alot of different typs of aliens. It doesnt say where they came from or there history... just that they're there. Then it jumps to the SSS queens. I think I read it 4 or 5 times just to make sure I caught everything... I mean call me what you like but it was pretty hard to follow some times.

I could go either way. If it is real that it makes a whloe bunch of sence. If it is fiction the it is a damn good story. I dont have any additional proff but Im leaning towards that it is real. The Hopi have very interesting believes. Their prophcies apparently fortold of the world wars and such. Hopi Prophecy

Either way great thread. I like the debates from both sides.

Originally posted by DoomsdayRex

Originally posted by Amaterasu
I have had a great number of discussions from one who was (is) a friend of his back in 1970. She and I began our discourse shortly after I learned of the Papers. She was aware of them in 1970.

Yes, in an effort to spread the information they were released as a booklet later in his efforts to inform us all. But the original work was from 1968 or 69.

What you have is an unsubstantiated claim. Fact, there is no evidence outside of these claims, that the Terra Papers were around before the 1990s.

Fact: There is no evidence that you'll accept that the Terra Papers were around before the 1990s. [shrug] I don't care.

Originally posted by Amaterasu
You must have missed the fact that I did NOT say "the Sumerian language." I said the "Sumerian Tablets," which are STILL being translated.

You are arguing semantics, now. Whether tablets or the language, you ignored the fact that translations of Sumerian myth have existed since the 1940s.

LOL! Whatever. The Tablets are more history, accounting, and reporting, than myth. And they are a far cry from what bits and pieces were translated before. What is your investment in this, dear. It seems awfully important for you to debunk by way of obfuscation and ridicule.

You also did not answer which Sumerian myths the Terra Papers supposedly mirror.

I can't answer that for the poster that posted that. Perhaps you should ask them.

Originally posted by Amaterasu
If Campbell told Lucas not to reveal any of the source, but did tell him the information he learned from the Hopi...

You are speculating. And that is all you have for the claim, confusing speculation for fact. There is zero evidence to support your claim.

If you read what I have written, it will become fully apparent that this was educated speculation from the beginning. I never said otherwise. So what's your point and why is this so important to you?

Originally posted by Amaterasu
It can hardly be a "legend" if it arrived via Bek'Ti in 1947

Regardless of what semantic games you want to engage in, there is no other source for these claims.

You make me laugh! Let's see...

From www.merriam-webster.com... :

1 a: a story coming down from the past ; especially : one popularly regarded as historical although not verifiable b: a body of such stories c: a popular myth of recent origin

It's not much passed down from the past - well 60ish years, but this is clearly referring to the distant past, so it's not "a" or "b." And it is not popular (yet), so it's not "c." The other two definitions, not shown, are completely unrelated.

So it is not "semantics." Again, why is this so important to you?

Originally posted by Amaterasu
and if the Hopi have kept the secrets in trust, they aren't going to be blabbing them to some paleface, now are they?

And yet that is what your entire claim is based on. First you claim Robert Morning Sky is babbling these secrets. Then you claim the Hopi told Joseph Campbell who in turn told Lucas.

These two were either given permission by a council of Elders, or were sharing something with a friend. That is not "babbling" - or "blabbing," for that matter. Campbell, no doubt, gained the trust of the Elders, and if he did speak to Lucas (which I think most likely), it was with the understanding that he not share the information.

Yes, it is speculation (as I have said all along), but the connection is an interesting on given the closeness of Lucas and Campbell, and the image Lucas presents matching so closely with the Papers.

Originally posted by Amaterasu
There is nothing but the Sumerian Tablets...

Again, tell us which Sumerian tablets, which Sumerian legends.

Again, ask the poster that claimed there was nearly a verbatim match.

Originally posted by Amaterasu
You're working awfully hard to call me a liar.

Not at all. I do not believe you are a liar. I believe you are sincere. Wrong, very wrong, but sincere.

Ha. Out of context here. You basically said I was making things up regarding my acquaintance who was a close friend of Mr. Morning Sky and who confirmed that the Papers were written in the late '60's.

And, in fact, this whole issue has you dancing to discredit me. I want to know what's so important... Does the thought of the Papers being true scare you THAT much? Or are there other, more...spooky reasons that you are so invested in this?

I just can't tell.

[edit on 6/4/2009 by Amaterasu]

Originally posted by Topsy_Cret
I too have read the papers and I did enjoy the story. Weather or not they are real is the biggest question in my head.

As I was reading thru it I noticed that it is not the history of the universe. In the begining it just basicly syas that there are a lot of planets and alot of different typs of aliens. It doesnt say where they came from or there history... just that they're there. Then it jumps to the SSS queens. I think I read it 4 or 5 times just to make sure I caught everything... I mean call me what you like but it was pretty hard to follow some times.

No, it's not the history of the Universe. Just the solar system, Eridu (Earth and her sister planets - and Humankind). [smile]

I agree that it is difficult to follow. That's why I constructed the glossary. Again, here are the links:

Terra Papers history: www.abovetopsecret.com...

Terra Papers glossary: www.abovetopsecret.com...

The Papers themselves: www.freedomdomain.com...

I could go either way. If it is real that it makes a whloe bunch of sence. If it is fiction the it is a damn good story. I dont have any additional proff but Im leaning towards that it is real. The Hopi have very interesting believes. Their prophcies apparently fortold of the world wars and such. Hopi Prophecy

Either way great thread. I like the debates from both sides.

I agree. It makes things that didn't make sense to me suddenly make complete sense. Again, I think these are the closest to the truth that we have. And as such, I act accordingly.

Thank you for your response. I do appreciate it.

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