Incredible Crashed UFO **Video**on Moon

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posted on Jun, 8 2009 @ 11:48 AM
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reply to post by weedwhacker
 


Seems to me your mind is made up and therefore you are not open to debating this? The person who made the film has to have had access to a LEM to film in or he has gone to the expense and time to build himself a highly detailed replica! The same goes with the lunar landscape. It's either real or it's a very well done fake but to start making claims that it's possible to rent out a LEM to film in is a bit weird. I hope you're joking about that?
Like I said before, there's huge problems with a lot of the films originally released on youtube by retired afb but the most interesting are the flyovers as they are either real or somebody has paid a lot of money and put in a lot of time to create a hoax he can never claim credit for. Either way it is worthy of debate and shouldn't be dismissed so easily.




posted on Jun, 8 2009 @ 12:02 PM
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reply to post by Mintwithahole.
 




...person who made the film has to have had access to a LEM to film in or he has gone to the expense and time to build himself a highly detailed replica!



but to start making claims that it's possible to rent out a LEM to film in is a bit weird. I hope you're joking about that?


I had to go read my post again. I was very clear: He could rent a movie like, say "Apollo 13" as a reference to build his own set pieces. Just a few panels, with switches and a window frame!!

Have you ever seen how movies are made? They build ONLY as much as they need, for a scene, not the entire thing.


The same goes with the lunar landscape. It's either real or it's a very well done fake


Again, the Lunar landscape is seen in small portions. AND, who's to say how accurate it is? Only as accurate as the CGI artist could make it, I suppose.



posted on Jun, 8 2009 @ 12:24 PM
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reply to post by weedwhacker
 

Yes, I take on board what you're saying but please explain this to me. Why would anyone go to the expense and time of creating these videos when they know they can never claim resonsibility for them? I realise that most of the videos posted by retired afb are fake but I just cannot get my head around the idea that somebody would go to such lengths to create a hoax.
I believe what we have here is a nugget of truth surrounded by utter rubbish to test whether we are open to discussing such topics.I guess the best way to resolve this problem would be if the Russian cosmonaut came forward and gave us his views but I'm not holding my breath for that to happen any time soon.



posted on Jun, 8 2009 @ 12:54 PM
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Originally posted by bigfatfurrytexan

Originally posted by Faiol


and, no scientist is talking about ufos, thats the most important thing ... the scientific community is afraid to investigate ufos ... and thats the main thing


That is EXACTLY the main thing. Science, which purports to be seeking truth and answers, tends to ignore that which it finds disconcerting.

IgnoreTheFacts, let me ask you something: do you believe that the UFO phenomenon is a real event, or something like "swamp gas"? Do you have preconcieved notions as to what is real and what isn't? Can you provide anything that would actually "debunk" (i hate that word) the video above?

Science should be about finding out the truth, not about drawing preconcieved notions and allowing them to dictate what is actually researched. Science fails on so many levels. The UFO phenomenon is but 1 instance.

I refuse to put faith in a system that picks and chooses what is worthy for review.


I also think scientists do not want to go too far with this, since whatever they may discover can either scare them for life, or scare others for life, either way its a lose-lose situation.

And on that swamp gas quote, i seen a guy's profile pic, and it showed 2 UFOs as weather balloons, and a weather ballon as swamp gas XD



posted on Jun, 8 2009 @ 01:16 PM
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I seem to remember that the video that featured the clay model woman had a scene where the camera looked out of the LEM window and you could see one of the Russian lunakhod moon rovers which suggests to me that perhaps the footage was made inside a museum somewhere and they had accidentally caught one of the other exhibits on camera!

I wonder if any museum has an LEM or a replica one and also has a model lunakhod in the same place?

I loved this whole thing when it first came to light but some of it is so obviously CGI (the saturn v staging footage) some of it borrows from well known previous footage (apollo 17) and some aspects are just ridiculous (the visible part of the spaceship alone would be almost 3.5km long)

I can't help but think that someone came across that interesting looking formation and then decided to build the hoax around it without realising how big the ship would have to be.



posted on Jun, 8 2009 @ 01:49 PM
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reply to post by fatdeeman
 



I wonder if any museum has an LEM or a replica one and also has a model lunakhod in the same place?


Hi, fatdeeman.

After a brief search, I found this:


The Cosmosphere in the Present

A visitor to the Cosmosphere first sees one of the centerpieces of the museum's collection: a full-scale mockup of the lunar lander. The mockup was built by Grumman and originally used by NBC during its coverage of the lunar landings as a way of showing to a viewing public unfamiliar with the spacecraft how it worked. A mockup of a lunar rover usually displayed with the lander is currently on loan to the Smithsonian, which is using it in its traveling exhibit for its 150th anniversary.

...The museum also has a number of spacecraft and spacecraft mockups. Included are both Soviet spacecraft, such as an engineering model of the Lunakhod robotic lunar rover, and American spacecraft, including Mercury and Gemini capsules and an engineering model of the Apollo spacecraft from the Apollo-Soyuz mission.


The bold parts are mine, and I removed some middle bits.

This is all from: seds.org...


Interesting, huh??

edit: Anyone from Kansas???

[edit on 6/8/0909 by weedwhacker]



posted on Jun, 8 2009 @ 08:19 PM
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The supposedly 1952 filming over the white house is fake, it has been proved in a thread here in ats some time ago.

And for the apollo 20 mission supposedly flying over an alien ship on the moon and filming it, you can clearly see that is a miniature, a maquette.



posted on Jun, 9 2009 @ 07:38 AM
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The UFO phenomenon is fairly clear to me. It's the Nazi's. Do you really think it's a coincedence the Nazi's had the most advanced space program and Hitler claimed there would be a 1000 year Reich?

How could Hitler believe such a bold statement without some kind of supreme power beyond anything this Earth has ever seen.


"Human culture and civilization on this continent are inseparably bound up with the presence of the Aryan. If he dies out or declines, the dark veils of an age without culture will again descend on this globe. The undermining of the existence of human culture by the destruction of its bearer seems in the eyes of a folkish philosophy the most execrable crime. Anyone who dares to lay hands on the highest image of the Lord commits sacrilege against the benevolent Creator of this miracle and contributes to the expulsion from paradise."

faculty.washington.edu...


The goal of the "folkish government", then, Hitler declares is to "finally to put an end to the constant and continuous original sin of racial poisoning, and to give the Almighty Creator beings such as He Himself created."


"The folkish-minded man, in particular," Hitler concludes, "has the sacred duty, each in his own denomination, of making people stop just talking superficially of God's will, and actually fulfill God's will, and not let God's word be desecrated. For God's will gave men their form, their essence and their abilities. Anyone who destroys His work is declaring war on the Lord's creation, the divine will."


In Mein Kampf, Hitler makes an emotional appeal to God to aid him and his Nazis in their divine task: "Then, from the child's story-book to the last newspaper in the country, and every theatre and cinema, every pillar where placards are posted and every free space on the hoardings should be utilized in the service of this one great mission, until the faint-hearted cry, "Lord, deliver us," which our patriotic associations send up to Heaven to-day would be transformed into an ardent prayer: 'Almighty God, bless our arms when the hour comes. ' " Later, when Nazi troops swarmed over Europe, each of them wore an army-issue belt buckle inscribed with the words "God is With Us".

www.geocities.com...


It's fairly clear to me who is responsible for the UFO phenomenon. There is another race much more advanced then humans. They demand your total submission of your souls so that they may control you for eternity.

Obviously Hitler made contact with them and together they plotted the takeover of all mankind for eternity. Don't worry though because there is a greater plan in this battle of good vs evil and good will prevail in the end.



posted on Jun, 9 2009 @ 09:03 AM
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reply to post by Mintwithahole.
 





Where did he get a life sized fully functioning LEM to film in?


Plans and reference pics on the internet in gobs. Anyone who has access to ANYTHING, like a junk yard or a parts supplier/ depot, or a salvage place like on Mythbusters- and sheet metal can create one. I have seen fan made Star Trek bridge sets that made my jaw drop. If a fan with a little disposable income can make an ENTIRE BRIDGE SET, an Apollo LEM set is nothing.




Where did he get the large, extremely detailed and accurate moon scape from which he could film his alleged fly over of the anomaly?


Terragen (a free/ or pay for the full version) landscape program, Bryce, Blender... There's a program standard called a DEM file ( I think that's the extension- .DEM) that converts height data into accurate maps. Add texturing and light, and Voila'! Instant moonscape.

I need to ask an honest question- Why are some of you people so hard pressed in believing a proven hoax? It almost begs of a mental disorder. Honestly and truly. I can sit here and wish and believe my cat can talk perfect english, and after a while, I could even begin to believe it. Does that make my cat speak? NO.

GET. A. GRIP. I already have said it's a fake. Others have. We've all shown the how and the why. Mebbe it's a personal preference, but anything that has this amount of fakery attached to it, does NOT have any truth in it whatsoever.

I feel I have just been shouting into a wind again... but maybe someone will catch a clue, huh?

[edit on 9-6-2009 by wylekat]



posted on Jun, 9 2009 @ 09:35 AM
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Originally posted by wylekat
I need to ask an honest question- Why are some of you people so hard pressed in believing a proven hoax? It almost begs of a mental disorder. Honestly and truly. I can sit here and wish and believe my cat can talk perfect english, and after a while, I could even begin to believe it. Does that make my cat speak? NO.

GET. A. GRIP. I already have said it's a fake. Others have. We've all shown the how and the why. Mebbe it's a personal preference, but anything that has this amount of fakery attached to it, does NOT have any truth in it whatsoever.

I feel I have just been shouting into a wind again... but maybe someone will catch a clue, huh?

[edit on 9-6-2009 by wylekat]

With such an attitude you wonder why you feel like you are shouting in the wind? Accusing people of having a mental disorder tends to get you ignored by most. No offence just saying...

Instead of "shouting in the wind" maybe you could take the time to have a look at the 34 official NASA images all showing a rather large anomaly that sits in the same spot as the Apollo 20 footage and bares a striking resemblance to it also.

If this is such a bad hoax then why put any time and effort in, better to save it for confirmed stuff, like the 34 pictures I just mentioned...

By the way I do agree with you on most of the footage, but I do not agree with this whole thing being absolute fantasy. That conclusion would be premature in my opinion.





[edit on 9/6/09 by Fastwalker81]



posted on Jun, 9 2009 @ 10:43 AM
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reply to post by Fastwalker81
 


I'm not denying that thing's sitting in that crater one bit.
I'm denying that "Apollo 20" stuff tho til I turn blue in the face. It's the film that people are going on as real which is driving me crackers! I'm in the process right now of disproving some of the special effects (like the filming out of the window of the LEM) as fake.

As for that thing in the crater... That is without a doubt there- and real. If that is somehow NOT a ship of some sort, it's gotta be a crystal formation of epic proportions.



posted on Jun, 9 2009 @ 11:21 AM
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I am going to give all of you who dont think it's even remotely possible to 'fake' the Apollo 20 vid something to chew on. Here's what I have for a well more realistic flyover of the anomaly.




Now... instead of debunking how 'real' it is, I'd like people to debunk how 'realISTIC' it is. Compare to the orig footage- ask all the questions you want. BTW- I tried to get the thing in the crater to spec- I think I missed a couple things, tho. And painting the lighter stripe at the front.. I am working on that.

[edit on 9-6-2009 by wylekat]

[edit on 9-6-2009 by wylekat]



posted on Jun, 9 2009 @ 11:31 AM
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reply to post by libertytoall
 



ITS NOT OBVIOUS and if Hitler was in contact with a more advanced race WHY DID HE NOT WIN THE WAR! just total BS!



posted on Jun, 9 2009 @ 11:47 AM
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Originally posted by Mintwithahole.
reply to post by weedwhacker
 


Seems to me your mind is made up and therefore you are not open to debating this? The person who made the film has to have had access to a LEM to film in or he has gone to the expense and time to build himself a highly detailed replica! The same goes with the lunar landscape. It's either real or it's a very well done fake but to start making claims that it's possible to rent out a LEM to film in is a bit weird. I hope you're joking about that?
Like I said before, there's huge problems with a lot of the films originally released on youtube by retired afb but the most interesting are the flyovers as they are either real or somebody has paid a lot of money and put in a lot of time to create a hoax he can never claim credit for. Either way it is worthy of debate and shouldn't be dismissed so easily.


LEM 3D model - including controlpanel and insides

And this is just one source on the internet.

[edit on 9.6.2009 by HolgerTheDane]



posted on Jun, 9 2009 @ 08:03 PM
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Why would it be so difficult to hold the fricken camera still. I mean come on, how hard is it. The man behind the camera is suppose to be a professional.



posted on Jun, 9 2009 @ 08:07 PM
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Wow. Got kinda quiet in here. Anyone want to debate what that thing is in the crater WITHOUT leaning on a fan made sci fi film? Anyone? How about you, sleeping in the corner?


I really wish there were much better, hi res pics of the area in question. Be interesting to see if it's just a rock (how, I dunno)- a ship, or a mineral deposit.



posted on Jun, 9 2009 @ 08:16 PM
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reply to post by Lil Drummerboy
 


Because, Drummerboy, IF the hoaxer kept the camera still everyone would more easily see it...and when it's a model (and a poor one, at that) that's the last thing you want!!



posted on Jun, 9 2009 @ 08:19 PM
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reply to post by weedwhacker
 


Yeah that was kinda my point.



posted on Jun, 9 2009 @ 08:46 PM
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Well since all the audience is dead I will say this, The UFO is always mysterious, difficult to confirm, hard to get a clear picture of. Why is that.. why can't we ever get a real photo or video that is easy to see, easy to confirm. Mainstream news always "seems" to downplay anything related to the topic. For me I will believe it when I see it, I mean when that thing "if it exists"lands in front of me and offers me a ride to the next solar system, I will believe. I have been watching this mystery since I was a child, since my father was mildly obsessed with the thought of ET's yet I have seen nothing. How many of you have seen a Not From This World life transportation vehicle? of if you prefer a UFO, which really could be anything. Huh? who has witnessed one? oh yeah, Carl was a great man, the guy was way ahead of his time.



posted on Jun, 10 2009 @ 09:16 AM
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So, so far we have the hoaxer breaking into a museum exibit to shoot his film while security and museum management see or hear nothing! And anybody who believes that there's more to this than first meets the eye is mentally disturbed. "Brilliant!" Have you people listened to yourselves?

The original NASA photographs show an object sitting on the far side of the moon (crystal!!!! Oh please.) and the supposed Apollo 20 flyover film is a perfect replica of the unknown object and the surrounding moonscape. . . Surely it should be apparent to anyone who takes even the most briefest of looks at this film that an awful lot of time, energy and work has gone into it's production. If it is a fake this guy should be working in Hollywood not posting his work on youtube under the alias of retired afb. I am amazed that something which, if real, changes everything we know about everything can be so widely, and nonchantly dismissed by so many supposedly open minded individuals. Describing it as a fake without giving a reasonable explanation to how it was faked, and by who, and why is just not good enough. Lets have some serious theories as to how and where it was done. And please, no more filming in museum exhibits or claiming the huge object is a crystal because that's harder to believe than this is a crashed spaceship. . .
My point of view is this- I readily understand that there's huge problems with some, if not all, of the videos. But couldn't there be a grain of truth here which is surrounded by lies and misinformation? Are we, the members of a conspiracy forum, really going to dismiss these amazing films out of hand? If we do then we are doing ATS a huge disservice.





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