It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

Why change the USA? Just leave it already!

page: 2
2
<< 1   >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Jun, 3 2009 @ 09:25 PM
link   

Originally posted by Avenginggecko
You want a country that remains static and fits into your narrow definition of how a country should be, regardless of the will of the people? Move to North Korea.

The American system is built to change and grow. If you don't like the direction, I suggest you try and use the system to your advantage instead of telling people to move away...especially when the people you're telling to leave have things going the way they want to go.


I don't want a country that remains static, I want a country that progresses freedom, not increasingly restricts it. Can you or anyone say you feel or are more free now than say 20 years ago? I doubt it.




posted on Jun, 3 2009 @ 09:29 PM
link   
reply to post by andy1033
 


Good God man . . . are a a character in a book?

I just started reading Atlas Shrugged . . . you sound exactly like the characters in it



posted on Jun, 3 2009 @ 09:41 PM
link   
two things. One is no, america does not legislate MORE freedom...ever, without a massive movement from the left or lower classes. All greater freedom legislation always came like pulling teeth, pushed hard by the working class against the powers that be. All the legislation in the last few decades has always been limiting, limiting peoples freedom and rights, often for the benefit of corporations. Indeed you will notice that almost all facets of our society are set up to protect the corporations from liability, and to limit peoples ability to challenge them.

Second thing, to the person pointing out "atlas shrugged". Ayn Rand was a capitalist hack. In all honesty, the truth is that the luxury of our society does indeed rest upon the sweatshops and slave labor of other nations. Our wealth is stolen wealth, and each american who owns a cell phone (which is practially all of them) for example benefits from the slave labor in indonesia. Its a fact our weight on the world as americans vastly outweighs that of people in other countries. We produce less than many, and yet we consume much more food, energy, and produce much more garbage. Our lifestyle is greed and self centeredness on a massive level, and to most of us its completely unconscious. If its in the books you read that deride it, perhaps its because they knew the truth would come out someday.



posted on Jun, 3 2009 @ 09:42 PM
link   

Originally posted by pexx421 Ah, i see...you actually believe all that hype that we have freedom and rights here. If you want to lash out against those trying to restrict your freedom and rights, the person you need to lash out at is the government....and not just under obama. Bush did more to undermine the constitution than any president since lincoln. Suspending habeus corpus and due process. Obama seems to be gearing up to attack our gun rights, with his recent legislations controling bullets and his appointment of sotomayor. But these arent anything new. Americans have always been restricted.


I don't think I singled out Obama. I am quite aware of the negative impact Bush had on the country and freedom.

We do still have many more rights than many other nations of the world, but we have grown increasingly farther away from freedom.


At any rate, the US was NEVER what you fondly remember in "the good ole days" so i would posit that as a member of this country, i and anyone else have our right to say what america should be just as much as you, and why should YOUR ideas of how america should be take precedence? Any single american has just as much ownership of our land as anyone else, and as such they should have just as much say as to "what makes america" and im sure everyone has their own opinion.


You are partly right. The system is designed such that if the majority of people did want to change over to a communist form of government or even appoint a new royal family creating an American Monarch, they could. My point is, no matter how incomplete the scope of freedom was since its inception, the principle and purpose was to further and ensure freedom in a world of oppression.



Should we all stop trying to make our country a better place, just because others tell us "if you dont like it you can leave"??


If increasing restrictions on freedom of speech, ownership, parental rights, and putting our nation in a position of permanent fiscal obligation to foreign nations, etc., is anyone's idea of better, then yes those people should leave.



posted on Jun, 3 2009 @ 09:46 PM
link   
reply to post by pexx421
 


Relax m8.

I was just saying how he sounded exactly like the characters in the book . . . almost word for word, even.



posted on Jun, 3 2009 @ 10:23 PM
link   
for sure guys, my bad. Too much red wine tonite pre post...i wax all emotional and stuff.



posted on Jun, 3 2009 @ 11:08 PM
link   
SURE WOULD LEAVE IT. If I had the $36 for the passport, another $400 for the plane ticket and another 500 bucks to ship all my crap, not because I want these things that the OP listed, well it's quite the opposite because all those things we have got plenty of here, and I do want to get away soooo.



posted on Jun, 3 2009 @ 11:13 PM
link   
reply to post by ldyserenity
 


So where would you go? What would be the reason for your choice?



posted on Jun, 3 2009 @ 11:22 PM
link   
honestly for me....im still here because i cant pull myself away from the people i love. I have to say though....every european i have spoken with has remarked on one thing....how much more stressful life is in the US. I would love to get away just for that. The thing that draws about much of europe is that people there care more about the important things in life. Its more about good love, good food, and good family. They are much less consumer driven than we are, and thats something i would give anything for. In all honesty, i dont really like dating american women much anymore, they are often so superficial, so concerned about the size of the rock i can get them, about their new purses or shoes. About how big our house will be, or how much we can impress their friends with our conspicuous consumption....not to mention most of them are completely uneducated about history, world events, science, focusing instead on brittney spears, sex in the city, or how many kids madonna's adopting. This is of course a generalization and doesnt apply to 100% but its common enough. Too common.



posted on Jun, 3 2009 @ 11:25 PM
link   

Originally posted by Wolf321
reply to post by ldyserenity
 


So where would you go? What would be the reason for your choice?

Truthfully...if there was a deserted island where I could do whatever I wanted and not have to deal with any other person living...that's where I'd head, but since that is not possible, I guess my best choice would be Amsterdam.
spelling...typing in the dark.

[edit on 3-6-2009 by ldyserenity]



posted on Jun, 3 2009 @ 11:33 PM
link   

Originally posted by pexx421In all honesty, i dont really like dating american women much anymore, they are often so superficial, so concerned about the size of the rock i can get them, about their new purses or shoes. About how big our house will be, or how much we can impress their friends with our conspicuous consumption....not to mention most of them are completely uneducated about history, world events, science, focusing instead on brittney spears, sex in the city, or how many kids madonna's adopting. This is of course a generalization and doesnt apply to 100% but its common enough. Too common.


I agree. And before I go on, I want to emphasize that is a generalization only.

I think this is an societal problem we have developed here in the US, in part due to the public education system, and a lack of responsible parenting over the past 50 years. Now, politicians have latched on to issue that are ruining society and the media feeds the whole beast.

It is what I believe to be the root of the fall of America.



posted on Jun, 3 2009 @ 11:34 PM
link   

Originally posted by pexx421
In all honesty, i dont really like dating american women much anymore, they are often so superficial, so concerned about the size of the rock i can get them, about their new purses or shoes. About how big our house will be, or how much we can impress their friends with our conspicuous consumption....not to mention most of them are completely uneducated about history, world events, science, focusing instead on brittney spears, sex in the city, or how many kids madonna's adopting. This is of course a generalization and doesnt apply to 100% but its common enough. Too common.

I'd also like to chime in here how big you can have their boobs increased, or how if you get them knocked up, they are more than happy to live off you and the system for 18 yrs of the kids' life without feeling the obligation to prove you in fact are the daddy, oh and how they think that men owe them but they want equality(ARE YOU JOKING?). Shall I go on? This coming from an enigma of the educated american woman.


[edit on 3-6-2009 by ldyserenity]



posted on Jun, 4 2009 @ 12:08 PM
link   

Originally posted by Avenginggecko

The American system is built to change and grow. If you don't like the direction, I suggest you try and use the system to your advantage instead of telling people to move away...



Originally posted by gwydionblack

I particularly don't care WHAT people like if it infringes on rights laid out in the Constitution. If these overbearing gun restrictions, excessive taxation, ect. are believed to be so great by some Americans that they would accept them regardless of their Constitutional bounds, then yes, I believe they should be the ones to believe.

This country was founded on the Constitution and is was meant to be maintained on such a Constitution. We are all raised and taught of understand of the document, so why is it so hard for some people to accept? Because people are threatened at the thought of the power.


The Constitution is refered to in several ways; the blueprint for the country; the framework of the country; the foundation on which this country was founded, etc.

There are many things you can do with blueprints, frameworks, and foundations in the normal course of constuction and that is to use them to build something. To adapt to changes or unseen conditions that may arise as your project proceeds. Just because your blueprints may call for wood to be used in your structure, which made perfect sense at the time because only wood was available, doesn't mean that it wouldn't make more sense to use steel as your project proceeds into the future.

Too often I read things here on ATS that refer to the Constitution as if it were chisled in stone. But we also hear about how our founding fathers had such great insight that they knew things would change as society grew and made provisions for our country to grow too.

They're called Ammendments. You know, the 27 things that were added to reflect the changes in our society that allowed the country to grow and prosper.

As Avenginggecko pointed out, there are even provisions in the Constitution that outline your freedoms to express yourself and the "blueprints" on how to change things.

Peace

edit to add: Oh, and if I'm not mistaken there have been a few Ammenments that had to be changed. Again not everything is perfect. Laws are written by people which makes them less than perfect at times



[edit on 4-6-2009 by zlots331]



posted on Jun, 5 2009 @ 03:23 PM
link   
reply to post by andy1033
 


Everybody is trying to "steal" everything. America just got a head start, and has a bit more experience. Ain't a country on earth that wouldn't have done the same things if it had the chance, though.



posted on Jun, 5 2009 @ 04:10 PM
link   

Originally posted by daddyroo45

Originally posted by andy1033
Its because living in one world, we cannot have one country stealing from everyone on earth to feed themselves while they do not need all those resources do they.

Do you guys need 100 big macs a day, to keep you going, if you get my drift.

What about the people all over the world. You cannot have a pretence of world being one while america steals everything they can.

The world needs more balance.


I don't se where America has stolen anything from anyone. This country sends more money and food in foreign aid than most other countries combined. Where do you get off even positing that statement?
Besides,its hard to get those hundred big macs into an envlope to mail them to the starving masses.

It's like saying "I go around beating women with baseball bats but I give more money to battered women than anyone else so that makes me good." lol



posted on Jun, 5 2009 @ 04:12 PM
link   

Originally posted by Wolf321

I don't want a country that remains static, I want a country that progresses freedom, not increasingly restricts it. Can you or anyone say you feel or are more free now than say 20 years ago? I doubt it.


Then why did you vote Bush/Cheney twice and Palin/McCain? Bush completely destroyed the USA with his runaway government and annihilation of freedoms.

And one last "don't believe the hype"

correspondents.theatlantic.com...

[edit on 5-6-2009 by contemplator]



posted on Jun, 5 2009 @ 04:21 PM
link   
reply to post by Wolf321
 

First of all, I will preface by saying I didn't read all of the other posts, so I apologize if I am reiterating someone else's words.

This whole "Love it or leave it" garbage is the worst kind of rhetoric, and it truly is a Nazi philosophy. This country was founded on dissenting attitudes, and they are what has made it great.

Second, most that I know that are looking to make changes in this country are looking to make changes to revert back to a constitutional country, which this country no longer is. Saying things like "Just leave" is GLARING proof of that.





posted on Jun, 6 2009 @ 03:52 PM
link   
reply to post by cautiouslypessimistic
 


The thread wasn't intended to be a love it or leave it kinda thing. I clearly should have chosen a better title to avoid this line of thinking.

The purpose is simply to question why are there people here in America trying to turn it into something that already exists in other places. People coming to America, citizens or those living in America should be trying to maintain and increase freedom and individual responsibility instead of trying to remove, restrict or pervert constitutional reaffirmed rights.

Someone mentioned earlier about America stealing from the world. I would say, that those here and coming here to reap the benefits associated with being in America while continuing to tear down the America conceived by its founders are the true thiefs.



new topics

top topics



 
2
<< 1   >>

log in

join