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The relationship between liberalism and Islam

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posted on Jun, 3 2009 @ 10:36 AM
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My opinion on Islam is that it's similar to Christianity, it's just a much younger religion (by 600 years), so it hasn't been as tempered by humanism - so there is a higher number of extremists and more sexist and dogmatic practices still around.

I think it is wrong to discriminate against Muslim people for their faith. Of course, if they commit terrorist actions or disrespect women, or practice vigilante justice their actions shouldn't be tolerated, but they have every right to practice their religion so long as they do not hurt other people.

Personally, I belive Mohammed was a sexist cult leader, similar to L. Ron Hubbard and David Koresh. I have little respect for the tenets of the faith; but the people who believe in it are deep down no different than other people.

A lot of liberals I think like Islam because of their dislike of European colonial culture and their admiration for "ethnic" cultures. The beliefs of Islam though are basically the opposite of liberalism, as it promotes a traditional, structured, and sexually segregated society.




posted on Jun, 3 2009 @ 11:13 AM
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reply to post by Donnie Darko
 


I'm not sure if I understand the point: are you proposing that liberals like Islam because it's anti-European?

This doesn't really make sense to me, considering the most liberal/socialist societies are in Europe.

Also, I don't believe liberals tend to "like" Islam over any other religion. An Atheist may be a liberal and dislike Christianity, but that is due to their religious beliefs and not because they are liberal. Liberals want equality for all individuals of all backgrounds and fight against government preferring one belief over another. Since it is practically impossible to legislate the preferrences of every belief system, many liberal groups tend to try and remove religious belief systems from the law completely.


Liberalism emphasizes individual rights and equality of opportunity. Within liberalism, there are various streams of thought which compete over the use of the term "liberal" and may propose very different policies, but they are generally united by their support for constitutional liberalism, which encompasses support for: freedom of thought and speech, limitations on the power of governments, the rule of law, an individual's right to private property, and a transparent system of government. All liberals, as well as some adherents of other political ideologies, support some variant of the form of government known as liberal democracy, with open and fair elections, where all citizens have equal rights by law.


Source

Then there's also social liberalism and classical liberalism. I assume you mean social liberalism. Here's a little explanation of the difference:


Classical liberalism believes that the provision of negative freedom constitutes liberty and is therefore a strictly laissez-faire philosophy. Social liberalism, however, sees a role for the State in providing positive liberty for individuals.They believe that lack of positive rights, such as economic opportunity, education, health-care, and so on can be considered to be threats to liberty.


Source



posted on Jun, 3 2009 @ 05:35 PM
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Not because it's anti-European, because it's non-European.



posted on Jun, 4 2009 @ 05:50 AM
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Interesting concept but I am not so sure it holds up well. If liberalism was attracted to Islam based on its "non-Europeanism" then wouldn't the same hold true for Zoroastrianism or Hindu? The whole planet was, at some, point, under European colonial rule so I am not sure one can get away from European influence in some form.

I, generally leaning liberal, am not attracted to Islam as a religion anymore than I am attracted to Wicca. I hold the same views as you Donnie, that so long as you are practicing your religion without imposing it by force on others who don't hold your beliefs then have at it. I would like to see the public square full of civil people who refrain from religious judgements, wishful thinking I know.

I agree with the concept that Islam is too young to have been tempered by a Reformation as Christianity was during the time of Luther forward. I have discussed this idea with friends and family before and do think that Islam is due for a humanistic tempering that will come once the braver souls of the theology class are able to grab the ear of the masses.

Good discussion!

Obs out



posted on Jun, 4 2009 @ 06:08 AM
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reply to post by Donnie Darko
 


It's always interesting to see yet another person talk about Islam or liberalism while understanding neither.

You start, of course, with the assumption that liberals "like" Islam. You proceed to tiptoe around the plain fact that you dislike both, and then try to attribute the liberal's love of Islam to a dislike for Europe, while never explaining how "Europe" and "Islam" are incompatable.



posted on Jun, 4 2009 @ 11:04 AM
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Originally posted by TheWalkingFox
reply to post by Donnie Darko
 


It's always interesting to see yet another person talk about Islam or liberalism while understanding neither.

You start, of course, with the assumption that liberals "like" Islam. You proceed to tiptoe around the plain fact that you dislike both, and then try to attribute the liberal's love of Islam to a dislike for Europe, while never explaining how "Europe" and "Islam" are incompatable.


Ouch.

Well what can I say? I'm a liberal myself, what I'm saying is some liberals always pick on Christianity, but give Islam a pass because it's an "ethnic" religion. The truth is Islam is far more conservative than Christianity is today.



posted on Jun, 4 2009 @ 11:19 PM
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No one should be judged by what religion they follow.

If you don't like there religion, then don't follow it

Alien Mind



posted on Jun, 5 2009 @ 06:31 AM
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Originally posted by Alien Mind
No one should be judged by what religion they follow.

If you don't like there religion, then don't follow it

Alien Mind


I agree, that's what I said, but what if your religion causes you to discriminate against other people, such as women?

That's a real catch-22.



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