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Originally posted by NIcon
A question I have is, is this guy claiming that the organic binder combusted yet the chip did not react like Jones' chip? That the organic binder combusted yet did not form the iron rich microspheres in Jones' chips? That the carbon combusted under air and still did not form these microspheres?
Doesn't this prove that a reaction other than combustion did in fact take place in Jones'chips? Doesn't this go against what's been argued in this thread about what may have happened, i.e. simple combustion?
As for the gray layer being "Micaceous Iron Oxide" it's not much of an arguement to say it's 10 microns thick and it looks like it, but I took his suggestion and googled it. I found this page: www.enviroprotectcoatings.com...
I don't see any layered plates like I find on this page. I don't see them in Jones' paper or Henry-Couannier's paper. So I'm going to need more than "it's 10 microns and it looks like this one photo."
Also not included in the quote from randi.org is this "It contains Kaolin and red iron oxide pigment - paint!" So he's still maintaining what we're looking at is Kaolin, but I still don't see how this can be if there's very little silicon in figure 17 and absolutely no aluminum in figure 16.
Originally posted by pteridine
The red chips exceed the theoretical energy release for the reaction. It doesn’t matter how small they are, they can’t exceed the theoretical maximum. Smallness only makes the reaction faster, it can’t change the thermodynamics.
Originally posted by turbofan
Originally posted by pteridine
The red chips exceed the theoretical energy release for the reaction. It doesn’t matter how small they are, they can’t exceed the theoretical maximum. Smallness only makes the reaction faster, it can’t change the thermodynamics.
OK people, it's time to teach Pteridine how to read and understand
English.
Twice I have told him the paper compares the THEORETICAL MAXIMUM of
CONVENTIONAL THERMITE to the energy release of the chips.
Pteridine is unable to understand this point and feels that because
CONVENTIONAL THERMITE can theorteically produce "X" amount of
energy...that the elements within the chips should be limited to that
potential.
Let's stop there and see if Pteridine is capable of understanding this fact,
and if he is able to source a paragraph in the paper which states otherwise.
After we get past this easy quesiton, we will expose the rest of the
misunderstandings of his reply at the bottom of page 62...as his entire
post hinges on the "Theoretical Maximum of Thermite"
[edit on 30-8-2009 by turbofan]
"It is striking that some of the red/gray chips release more energy in kJ/g than does ordinary thermite, as shown in the blue bar graphs above.
The theoretical maximum for thermite is 3.9 kJ/g [27].
We suggest that the organic material in evidence in the red/gray chips is also highly energetic, most likely producing gas to provide explosive pressure.
Again, conventional thermite is regarded as an incendiary whereas
super-thermite, which may include organic ingredients for
rapid gas generation, is considered a pyrotechnic or explosive
[6, 24].
As this test was done in air it is possible that some of the enhancement of energy output may have come from air oxidation of the organic component.
Originally posted by pteridineYour comment “We see no mention that the chips exceeded THEIR OWN theoretical maximum energy output!” is really a dumb statement.
I said that two of the chips exceeded the total energy for thermite and, interestingly, two didn’t.
Jones agrees and says combustion occurred. How much combustion? Jones doesn’t know. How do you think we find out? Do you want to hazard a guess of what the key experiment might be?
Further, if they were the same highly engineered material, we would expect them to be somewhat consistent.
They say many things that are not necessarily true. Read it, Turbo. The scientists SUGGESTED that the organic material is highly energetic. That means that they don't have any proof
BS
You will always have failures in mass produced, human engineered materials within a reasonable percentage.
Thinking otherwise is totally amateur. Go ahead and find me one example
of a human made product, substance, etc. that exhibits 100% efficiency
and consistency.
They haven't proved thermite
Originally posted by jprophet420
BS
You will always have failures in mass produced, human engineered materials within a reasonable percentage.
Thinking otherwise is totally amateur. Go ahead and find me one example
of a human made product, substance, etc. that exhibits 100% efficiency
and consistency.
The question is the wrong question anyway. The production was uniform, thats whats important.
They haven't proved thermite
They proved incendiary however, which is all it takes to prove foul play.
[edit on 30-8-2009 by jprophet420]
Originally posted by pteridineI don't claim anything. I post to keep people like Jones honest and to help non-technical people like you understand the science.
Originally posted by turbofan
Originally posted by pteridineI don't claim anything. I post to keep people like Jones honest and to help non-technical people like you understand the science.
A no name internet kid thinks he' s better than a Ph.D.! Honest?
You think Jones is pulling a fast one on ya? You've got some nerve
"Pteridine".
Peanuts, paint, paper...all you do is pick one aspect of the study and
focus on your fantasty.
You show me a peanut, paint, or paper that has a similar DSC trace, chemical
composition, backscatter, etc. and we'll talk.
Just keep on yapping without providing an alteranitve that fits all the
criteria and tests shown in the paper.
Originally posted by turbofan
A no name internet kid thinks he' s better than a Ph.D.! Honest?
You think Jones is pulling a fast one on ya? You've got some nerve
"Pteridine".
Just keep on yapping without providing an alteranitve that fits all the
criteria and tests shown in the paper.
Originally posted by turbofan...Do you even understand what these points mean? The chips outperformed a KNOWN CONTROL SAMPLE OF NANO THERMITE USING THE SAME RATE OF AIR FLOW!!!!!...
Originally posted by turbofan
It's nice to know that besides the peer review, we now have two additional
scientists confirming the paper.
Originally posted by P1DrummerBoy
Originally posted by turbofan...Do you even understand what these points mean? The chips outperformed a KNOWN CONTROL SAMPLE OF NANO THERMITE USING THE SAME RATE OF AIR FLOW!!!!!...
Pterdine, in reference to the above quote, would you suggest that the samples Jones has, which you firmly believe are paint chips, produce more explosive power than a known control sample of nano-thermite?
To answer a question you posted recently, yes, it WOULD bother me to know that this stuff is apparently very highly engineered, yet there is a large amount of unreacted material...but doesnt the fact that the stuff you say is paint is more powerful than nano thermite?