Yep, It's Thermite! So Much for the "Oxygen" Excuse

reply to post by turbofan


Thanks for all your had work turbofan, and others who have posted on this thread and the Pentagon threads involvng the flight paths and Lloyd the cab driver. - You know who I mean. Many Australians, like myself have always suspected 9/11 was a Black Op.

I hope Alex Jones, and other scientists will do more and hopefully their personalsafety isn't compromised.

I have followed the OS and the REAL story for 7+ years now.

I am not a scientist, I am just a member of the public who cannot be that easily hoodwinked, there has been at least one black op in Australia before, but no where near the scale of 9/11 - Some people will know what I am reffering to, but won't go into it on this thread, I will check if it's on another thread.

I can't believe this many people can't see, or want to see the FACTS, Understand, or want to understand the REAL evidence that is right in front of their eyes.

Keep up the good work. Hopefully some media outlets, like FOX did a while ago let the real Professionals, Scientists and others explain the evidence in full detail, not over just 7.30 minutes though like FOX did.

I am new to this site, I wish I had found it when it first appeared, so to all the other Aussies I think we too can, and will keep the fight up to get the all the Scientific evidence and more to our media and public.



Cheers

"Imagination is more important than knowledge. Knowledge is limited. Imagination encircles the world." - Einstein








[edit on 5-6-2009 by Skyline666]

[edit on 5-6-2009 by Skyline666]

Originally posted by turbofan
That's all fine and dandy, but this is not a review of Jones' paper, or
the science. If I'm not mistaken, the site you referenced has been
floating around long before the study was released.

It's no secret that Jones and Wood don't get along. Let's stay on topic
here and link references to the paper, or rebuttals against the paper;
not character assassinations.

Do you have an updated source to show Woods' review of the latest
study by the nine scientists?

This is a public forum. Apart from contributors to the thread others read what is written. Many may be members. 90% of the viewers are non-members.

Most are new to this game with little prior knowledge of what's out there.
It would take months to get up to speed.

The vast majority of the comments her are one-sided - Jones is a respected scientist and the second coming.

Others find fault with his science, procedures, and methodology. The usual dismissals of these issues are the inevitable: That's a government psyops source, you accept the lies of the OS, etc. This weeks pat reply is: Why don't you ask Dr Jones?

Well I don't think Dr Jones been incommunicado and not taking calls all this time. Anyone who has something to ask him something already has or does not get the impression it will be a fruitful endeavour.

Maybe he can provide us with edited version these queries and his replies, in the spirit of transparency. Why don't you ask Dr. Jones?


Mike

Originally posted by Skyline666
Thanks for all your had work turbofan

Thank you for the kind words, but I can't take any credit for hard work.

it was actually quite easy and painless. I simply took a few minutes of
my time to e-mail a scientist.

I wish I could take the spotlight for this amazing information, but that
would be bold. I'll forward the praise to CIT, P4T, AE, STJ, etc.

If anything this thread has accomplished one thing: crush those
anonymous loyalists who try to discredit real researchers.

Now that we've shown why Jones and the other scientists used air/
oxygen in the DSC testing, we've made fools out of those complaining
about the need for inert gasses.

As you can see, the focus has shifted from their last theory to new ones.
This happens quite often:

1. The GL's make up excuses and theories.

2. We have to show them facts.

3. The GL's make up another excuse

...and the cycle continues.

Soon they will run out of ideas, and there will be nothing left to complain
about. Maybe at that point they will see the light?

Then you wonder why the GL's freak when researchers don't offer theories?

It's because we don't freakin' know! We just have the facts, and evidence.

The who, how, why isn't our problem, or focus.

[edit on 5-6-2009 by turbofan]

Originally posted by mmiichael
Maybe he can provide us with edited version these queries and his replies, in the spirit of transparency. Why don't you ask Dr. Jones?

Are you asking me to write Jones about coming here to discuss your
questions, and/or address Woods?

Video evidence shows demo squids, there was a video clip of someone walking through the lobby where there was obvious blast damage from an explosion in the one of the sublevels, fire fighter interviews talking about demolition charges, phyiscs professors declaring the towers defied the laws of physics regarding a so-called pancake collapse, nano-thermite being discovered in the WTC dust.

The nano-thermite paper failed to prove the dust is thermite. The failure is reflected by the lack of support of scientists and engineers. Reading the paper revealed errors quickly, leaving no doubt why the paper was in a pay for publishing journal. Not the first time Jones’ work was substandard. He lost his job for doing this type of shallow and faulty research work years ago when he made up thermite as the cause for the WTC demise. Where is the support from the scientific community? There will be no Pulitzer Prize for Jones' and Hoffman's super-nano-thermite ceiling tiles with remote controls to destroy the WTC towers.

It may be interesting to compare the amount of thermite needed to equal the office fires in each tower. I have never seen Jones or his group explain the heat energy. What would it take? Would it be 1 million kilograms of thermite to equal the heat of the office fires and jet fuel?

reply to post by iSunTzu


The paper was peer reviewed before it could be published. Please
stop posting garbage and read up on the process.

Here is direct slam to the "paid, vanity" crap:

From Dr. Steven Jones:
911blogger.com...

reply to post by turbofan



I should have been clearer, I was refering to all your time you have spent on this thread and the other relevant 9/11 threads. It's a lot of time and effort still - don't you agree?

Especially debating with certain GL's!

reply to post by iSunTzu



Hi iSunTzu, Please if you havn't already read this entire thread, and go through all the links.

Please read (and follow links to) the relevant Pentagon threads that explain the real Flight 77 flight path using scientific proof, the real witness accounts, the real investigations done and the FAA Flight Path and of course Lloyd the taxi driver and his magic light pole.

It will take you A LOT of time, but after you have read it all, compare it to what who have researched on the official story, the true story and any documentaries you may have seen. For example - In Plane Sight.

After you have done all of this, (I know it take a huge amount of time because I did it) - GO BACK to the day of 9/11, think of what your Gut Feeling Told you after you saw the Twin Towers and Building 7 collapse, the Pentagon being hit and the STRANGE scorched hole in the ground where Flight 93 was said to have crashed.

I think you might be very surprised and understandably, Shaken when you see the reality.

Please read the link below on some members of the 9/11 commission, psychologists and mental health professionals regarding 9/11.

Cheers

A new article in U.S. News & World Report quotes a couple of psychologists, one sociologist and one historian to argue that people who question the government's version of 9/11 are prone to false thinking.

Initially, remember that, while there are many honorable psychologists and psychiatrists, psychologists helped to create the U.S. torture program, and actively participated in it.

Also, psychologists - such as Freud's nephew Edward Bernays - have been central to propaganda efforts for a century. See also this and this.

Moreover, many mental health professionals have concluded that the official version of 9/11 is false, and that those who believe the official version suffer from emotional problems or defense mechanisms. For example:

* Psychiatrist Carol S. Wolman, MD

* Psychiatrist E. Martin Schotz

* Associate Clinical Professor of Psychiatry and Behavioral Sciences, Duke University Medical Center, as well as Radiology, at Duke University Medical Center D. Lawrence Burk, Jr., MD

* Board of Governors Distinguished Service Professor of Psychology and Associate Dean of the Graduate School at Ruters University Barry R. Komisaruk

* Professor of Psychology at University of New Hampshire William Woodward

* Professor of Psychology at University of Essex Philip Cozzolino

* Professor of Psychology at Goddard College Catherine Lowther

* Professor Emeritus of Psychology at California Institute of Integral Studies Ralph Metzner

* Professor of Psychology at Rhodes University Mike Earl-Taylor

* Retired Professor of Psychology at Oxford University Graham Harris

* Ph.D. in Clinical Psychology from the University of Nebraska and licensed Psychologist Ronald Feintech

* Ph.D. Clinical Neuropsychologist Richard Welser

Finally, it should be obvious that the opinions of mental health professionals are only as sound as their knowledge. For example, a mental health professional in 1640 would likely have labeled Galileo crazy for saying that the Earth orbits around the Sun.

More importantly, a German psychologist who heard from a patient in 1933 - when Hitler started consolidating power in Germany - that Hitler was a dangerous fascist who would launch a world war, try to take over the world and kill millions would likely be labeled as delusional.

Just as with any field, the opinions of mental health professional are only as good as their knowledge.

Indeed, even the 9/11 Commissioners themselves now say that they don't believe the government's version of 9/11. For example:

* The Commission's co-chairs said that the CIA (and likely the White House) "obstructed our investigation"

* Indeed, they said that the 9/11 Commissioners knew that military officials misrepresented the facts to the Commission, and the Commission considered recommending criminal charges for such false statements (free subscription required)


* 9/11 Commissioner Bob Kerrey said that "There are ample reasons to suspect that there may be some alternative to what we outlined in our version . . . We didn't have access . . . ."

* 9/11 Commissioner Timothy Roemer said "We were extremely frustrated with the false statements we were getting"

* 9/11 Commissioner Max Cleland resigned from the Commission, stating: "It is a national scandal"; "This investigation is now compromised"; and "One of these days we will have to get the full story because the 9-11 issue is so important to America. But this White House wants to cover it up"

* The Senior Counsel to the 9/11 Commission (John Farmer) - who led the 9/11 staff's inquiry - said "At some level of the government, at some point in time...there was an agreement not to tell the truth about what happened". He also said "I was shocked at how different the truth was from the way it was described .... The tapes told a radically different story from what had been told to us and the public for two years.... This is not spin. This is not true."

Given that even the 9/11 Commissioners themselves don't believe the government's version of 9/11 any more, is a mental health professional who believes the official version really saying that the entire 9/11 Commission is delusional?

[edit on 5-6-2009 by Skyline666]

It amazes me that there are people who believe the Governments version of 911. The evidence that something is amiss is overwhelming. How the heck did cars parked a half mile away from the WTC get melted. There's just to many anomalies. I hope this doesn't go down like the Kennedy assassination. I really hope the devils (and we know who they are) are brought to justice. The odds seem bad but there is still hope.

Thanks for posting and your legwork! S&F.
Yes it's like that high school physics teacher explaining the 2.25 seconds of free fall during WTC 7 collapse which forced NIST to change their original story. It is science that will force a new investigation!

I would only be theorizing if I pointed the finger at possible suspects and I believe this hurts the search for the truth. I know who benefited from the attacks but that is not proof.

We need a real investigation. Do we have the courage?????

Oh heavy words on the internet PIDummerboy apparently you need to check who owns this website before you start giving orders.

Originally posted by P1DrummerBoy

You've been challenged to contact Dr. Jones and debate him. Why do you continue to avoid this?

Probably because I don't care what you or anyone else tells me to do.

Issue all the BS "challenges" you like.

Why do you continue to debate with us on the board?

This board is here to discuss press releases, not act as a place of passive information reception.

For the third and hopefully last time, quit trying to muddy the thread up with your opinions. Take them to Dr. Jones as you have been challenged to do, and if you refuse to do that, then do us all a favor and go away.

And for the first time, don't post in this forum telling anyone to do anything, or go anywhere or write anything or think anything.

Quit evading the challenge.

Oh, back to that, sorry, I thought you might be considering your position as a truther for a second.

OK.

You mean to go off from here, chasing up Jones via email?


Well my concern is that this paper is being back-patted around like it's serious science.

Call me Mr Counter-Intuitive, but I doubt Jones would engage productively in a discussion about the total demolition of any pretensions he might've had to reality.

Email Dr. Jones with your concerns. I'm sure he'll be MORE than happy to give you some education.

In fact, I regret educating him about the properties of combustion and detonation.

Also, are you GL's put in some type of Queue? I notice that there is a pattern in every single thread.

Once those initial guys are shut down, they disappear, and 1 or 2 more take their place, and the circus goes on and on.

The problem is,

911 Truth - by accepting rubbish, nonsense, gut feelings, obvious scientific falsity - has tainted the public conception of those who challenge government coverups and conspiracies.

Don't evade it. Don't come back and respond with your opinion. Don't respond and ask me or anyone else any more redundant questions. Dont respond and tell me what you think. Don't log off this account and log onto another account and respond to me to continue your circus of questioning.

I am back and I have posted my opinion.

I will ask you or anyone else any question I feel like.

I am telling you what I think, and may - if I feel like it - continue to do so.


Nothing you say will stop me.

The purpose of this thread was to inform people of more of Dr. Jones' findings.

If you have a problem with the information contained therein, take it to the source.

"contained therein"??LOL I am at the source, man.

Don't assume a false authority.

You have none.

Every person who has read through this thread knows what your concerns are.

Don't try to extend your self-appointed authority to encompass other people's brains.

Originally posted by turbofan

Originally posted by mmiichael
Maybe he can provide us with edited version these queries and his replies, in the spirit of transparency. Why don't you ask Dr. Jones?

Are you asking me to write Jones about coming here to discuss your
questions, and/or address Woods?

Thought it was pretty clear.

Jones is fielding inquiries from the public.

Can we see those questions and his replies?

If not, why not?

This is not an unusual request.


Mike

[edit on 5-6-2009 by mmiichael]

posted by P1DrummerBoy

...By the way, Frank R Greening is the halfwit who runs 911Myths.
www.911myths.com...

"Presumably...perhaps...it looks like..." I mean DAMN. This man sure does assume a LOT, and that's just one paragraph.

Yes I agree. His whole disinformation site is like that. He probably got some CIA black ops money to run it. F R Greening appears to be a very poor excuse for a scientist. Greening claims to have a PhD in chemistry; but that is not a guarantee that he has even a ounce of common sense or simple deductive reasoning.

posted by iSunTzu

It may be interesting to compare the amount of thermite needed to equal the office fires in each tower. I have never seen Jones or his group explain the heat energy. What would it take? Would it be 1 million kilograms of thermite to equal the heat of the office fires and jet fuel?

Funny how one of your heroes, Dr Frank R Greening who runs the 911Myths disinformation site, agrees that there was not enough combustible materials including the jet fuel from two aircraft, in the entire World Trade Center to create the heat energy needed to create the pools of molten metal beneath the WTC.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/f55593eaf6b0.gif[/atsimg]

But allegedly fine particle nano-thermite creates far more energy than ordinary thermite, and perhaps we need to get the US Military to divulge the explosive energy derived from their top-secret weaponry. How would Jones have access to that information?

Temperatures beneath WTC 7
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/73700ea3c634.gif[/atsimg]

Perhaps a real investigation into 9-11 instead of the whitewash we received would enlighten all of us.

Sulfur and the World Trade Center Disaster
by F. R. Greening

And we can readily agree that complete combustion of all carbon-based materials in the WTC buildings, including jet fuel, diesel oil, wood, plastics and fabrics would be incapable of generating such temperatures.

www.911myths.com...

Originally posted by SPreston

Yes I agree. His whole disinformation site is like that. He probably got some CIA black ops money to run it. F R Greening appears to be a very poor excuse for a scientist. Greening claims to have a PhD in chemistry; but that is not a guarantee that he has even a ounce of common sense or simple deductive reasoning.

So, by this same reasoning, we could say the same about Mr. Jones? The both have degrees, have published papers and basically were just regular old scientists with no agenda or real world skills, training or education to research the WTC collapse.I mean, at least his site says the following...

But does this make us an authority? No. If we’ve an overall message here, it’s check things for yourself. Don’t trust a site just because it’s telling you what you want to believe. Don’t believe us without evaluating our arguments and checking the references we provide, either (we’re as likely to make mistakes as anyone else). Look into the claims yourself, discover both sides of the argument, and make your own mind up. The truth deserves nothing less.

He is giving anyone, believer or truther, a place to start.

reply to post by esdad71


Perhaps you overlooked the posts in this thread in which F R Greening appeared to be a novice scientist and Jones and others had to correct his science. And I was replying to a post referring to Greening's apparent extensive use of unscientific guesswork on his disinformation website.

Originally posted by undermind
The problem is,

911 Truth - by accepting rubbish, nonsense, gut feelings, obvious scientific falsity - has tainted the public conception of those who challenge government coverups and conspiracies.

That pretty much sums up the situation.

A 9/11 thread at ATS may start as discussion but inevitably ends in a gang wars. This is considered Truthers turf. People legitimately questioning dubious scientific data and sources are a persecuted minority. The answer to a question can be a simple: That's disinformation from a CIA black ops site.

It's not about coming closer to the truth, it's about showng you are on the winning side. An academic non-entity like Jones gets elevated to some messianic status because he does experiments that appear to give the Truth movement credibility.

In the process possible new information coming to light gets lost. Few want to deal with the Truther cult where bad science rules.

In a way Truthers are big aid to the people they hate the most - the US admin and it's intelligence. If there was US complicity they have successfully muddied the waters with so many nonsensical claims the public isn't listening any more.

So in a way the Truth movement have become a promoter of the dreaded Official Story. The opposition completely lacks credibility.

Mike


[edit on 5-6-2009 by mmiichael]

reply to post by ablue07


Great Post. Is there any photos or video of the melted cars half a mile away from the WTC? If there is, I have some how missed it. Please post a link.

The Truth will come, I really believe that the world will know within 5 years.

Cheers

Originally posted by ablue07
It amazes me that there are people who believe the Governments version of 911.

because without that belief or proof of the contrary would destroy the reality of their surroundings. Its not hard to fathom why people believe what their gov't reports any more so than why people believe in Christ, or Buddah, or even Aliens. and with that philosophical rendering, i need to go lie down.