A beautiful suicide

Originally posted by silo13
That these parents so wanted to be with their child, to continue to love and nurture their little baby, together, that they sacrificed their own lives to follow their child into the afterlife?

Yeah that is something I think many here do not get. Plus some just get so irrationally angry over suicide, it just fills them with utter hatred and rage which I just don't get. Perhaps death scares them so badly they feel the need to lash out at those that choose it? They can't yell at death but they can take it out on those that choose suicide? Dunno.

To lose someone that is truly very close, you do think about following them. Part of it is not wanting to live here without them and continue to suffer intense grief, but another part is truly a desire to follow them to the other side. I have felt that, and while I did not have an exact idea of what the otherside would mean, I knew they went down that path and I wanted to follow it regardless.

[edit on 3-6-2009 by Sonya610]

Originally posted by MR BOB
(Snip),there aint nothin beutiful about suicide.

I'm sorry but when i read the article the first thing that popped into my mind was :"that's beautiful".....

I did not claim it was great or something like that....

just beautiful in a sence that the love for something can be so great that the value of your own life becomes secondary...

I think that's a beatiful human trait.

Peace

I think their hearts were in the right place, but it is selfish, like an above post said, its like taking pain and passing it on to someone else. Also, think about all the people who WISH they had a loved one back, one that has been taken away abrubtly, violently or without warning. Life is so precious and these people just threw it away, like it was meaning less. And beautiful?? I doubt they looked beautiful splattered all over the rocks below. Beautiful suicide is a contradiction of terms. Death is a cold, ugly thing and its should be respected not mocked.

Originally posted by stereovoyaged
I think their hearts were in the right place, but it is selfish, like an above post said, its like taking pain and passing it on to someone else. Also, think about all the people who WISH they had a loved one back, one that has been taken away abrubtly, violently or without warning.

Thank you for your reply and insight. I always find it interesting to know were other people stand in life when it comes to issues like this....

Life is so precious and these people just threw it away, like it was meaning less.

Maybe it would have been interesting if you would have tried to convince these people of these facts ,if it were possible. I have a feeling they might not have agreed with you.

And beautiful?? I doubt they looked beautiful splattered all over the rocks below.

That's just nasty!! Maybe we simultanously posted but my explanation is above your post. I clearly wasn't talking about the visual aspect of suicide!!

Beautiful suicide is a contradiction of terms.

Hence the title of this thread, not every thing is black/white

Death is a cold, ugly thing and its should be respected not mocked.

Maybe in your preception it is cold and ugly, i beg to differ.

Peace

Originally posted by Amaterasu

Suicide is an option for all,

Really. So we should argue that suicide bombers have the right to kill themselves and take a few others out aswell, for the ride. Ok.
So its Ok for kids to gun their way through schools, and at the end of it, we have to preserve their right to deal with their "spark issues" when they turn the gun on themselves. OK.
So when a marriage breaks up and parents get to fight over thier children and one parent decides that life is to tough and decides to kill the kids and then commit suicide, we need to applaud this as an act of love, and remember this person has the right. Ok.

I raise these issues because suicide is an excuse for some people. It is not a right.

and to remove this right because one feels one has a better valuing system is much the same as a murderer who feels they have a better valuing system than the one(s) they kill.

Its a grey area, and one that effects so many people in many different ways that I think it is assinine to consider the values of murderers and suicides or how other view them.
I can't remember anyone saying these people have no right to top themselves, but suicide is a permanant solution for temporary problems.
One of my friends just had a still born child a few weeks ago. Its amazing to see how people want to deal with their grief, and come out wanting to help others. and how many others out there that have had similar experiences and are there to help. That is Love
And then there are those that throw themselves from a cliff, to a round of applause from those that think it was an act of love. Love is endurance. Love is living. Love is remembering, Love is being alive to share it, be it grief or not. Love is what you express in grief. Love is everlasting, Grief is fading. Love gives life, Love is life. Suicide is non of this. Not even close.
Do I feel for these people, yes.
Can I understand it. Yes.
Will I see this as an act of love. No. Never. Ever.

Sine Qua Non, "without which not".


"Those things we deem essential, without which we cannot bear living, without which life in general loses its specific value. Becomes abstract." Romo Lampkin


I can imagine the pain the parents are feeling. I have a daughter. That without which not my life would lose its intrinsic value. To me.


Hugs,
Dax

Originally posted by operation mindcrime

just beautiful in a sence that the love for something can be so great that the value of your own life becomes secondary...
Peace

I'm not sure if i understand your notion of love correctly: You mean, love can be attached to a person so badly, that everything else, even the love for life, diminishes?

Actually, that i call emotional blindness, or temporary madness.

Though i have no child and i can't understand the feeling, but me, i admire the strength to survive wounds and carry on with life... find new joy, concentrate on the love for family, friends and life. Mourning is necessary, as death is and love for me is a hightened sense for all life, the love to everything that can not be detached to any one thing or person.

Sure, this viewpoint is influenced by some indian philosophy and i do believe in reincarnation. And out of this angle, the parents could not have done something more stupid: With their weak decision to waste their bodies did they make every reunification with their child impossible - or greatly delayed.

But that's religion and noone needs to argument for or against belief

peace

Originally posted by Wachstum but me, i admire the strength to survive wounds and carry on with life... find new joy, concentrate on the love for family, friends and life. Mourning is necessary, as death is and love for me is a hightened sense for all life, the love to everything that can not be detached to any one thing or person.

You have probably never known really hard core depression that goes on for years and takes all the joy out of life. I think at least one of this couple may have known it.

reply to post by Sonya610


Indeed, that's a possibility i did not consider... but then the death of the child was only a trigger and the whole incident has nothing to do with any kind of love

very sad

Originally posted by Wachstum
Indeed, that's a possibility i did not consider... but then the death of the child was only a trigger and the whole incident has nothing to do with any kind of love

very sad

Yes but having dependant children (or dependants in general) is a huge suicide deterrant. Women with children at home are far LESS likely to committ suicide despite long term depression, but when the kids leave the nest the rates return to normal.

In this case it is possible that one or both were very very depressed for a long time and hung on because of their dependant child.

My opinion is that there selfish looser's.

Have a nice day.

Take care.

Regards
Lee

reply to post by Sonya610


... so it's love that kept them alive and normality that killed them. God, people really must learn how to meditate. You will say, that sometimes people can't or it won't help, but there are cases where energy work did some unbelievable jobs...

Whatever, i do believe that a human must have the freedom to decide over his own death or life. But i am sure, most times death is the wrong and the weak decision

peace



[edit on 3-6-2009 by Wachstum]

Originally posted by atlasastro

Originally posted by Amaterasu
Suicide is an option for all,

Really. So we should argue that suicide bombers have the right to kill themselves and take a few others out aswell, for the ride. Ok.
So its Ok for kids to gun their way through schools, and at the end of it, we have to preserve their right to deal with their "spark issues" when they turn the gun on themselves. OK.
So when a marriage breaks up and parents get to fight over thier children and one parent decides that life is to tough and decides to kill the kids and then commit suicide, we need to applaud this as an act of love, and remember this person has the right. Ok.

Give me a break! Amaterasu said "suicide is an option for all". And from that, you get "suicide bombings are ok", "school massacres are ok", and "murdering children is ok".

What is it that drives you so strongly to twist others words to suit your self-righteous agenda?

For the record, NOBODY here, unless they have lost a child in such a horrible way, has any right to chastise the parents, or anyone who accepts their decision. If you don't even have children, your presence in this thread is even questionable.

Look, no matter what your faith is, the most basic element of that faith is that this is not all that we are. Something to ponder before passing judgment here.

Originally posted by silo13
For the people who’s opinions run to labeling suicide as selfish, the people who commit this act nothing but excrement?

Well, I hope you’re never in a position where life has so overwhelmed you, you find yourself looking down a barrel of a gun, or don’t bother to count out a handful a pills, just chuck the whole bottle down your throat...

There’s nothing like getting a dose of tragedy *up close and personal* to change opinions... I hope it doesn’t take something horrific to change yours, or to allow you to feel compassion and sympathy for the life of others.

That these parents so wanted to be with their child, to continue to love and nurture their little baby, together, that they sacrificed their own lives to follow their child into the afterlife?

I label them courageous, selfless parents caught in the act of unconditional love.

Would I apply this judgment on all such cases, no.

But, in my opinion, my gut check tells me these parents did exactly what their hearts told them to do, no matter the fear and pain to get there, they did what it took to be reunited with their child.

May they all experience the afterlife, together, in love and in peace.

[edit on 3-6-2009 by silo13]

You are right. People are always quick to label those who attempt suicide as selfish attention-seekers. I guess this is just ignorance, because these people have never been in a position where they wanted to take their own life. And I don't mean "consider taking their life," I'm talking about thoughts like "how should I kill myself?" "Can't that huge container just fall on me?" "or I hope that car runs me over and it will end."

Of course people should be encouraged to live their lives to the fullest and suicide should be discouraged. But at the end of the day, grown adults are entitled to make their own decisions and you cannot force somebody else to live in your image.

This is a sad story, but not one where the parents should be made out to be selfish barbarians!

reply to post by stereovoyaged


"Beautiful suicide is a contradiction of terms. Death is a cold, ugly thing and its should be respected not mocked."

Are you the Grimm Reaper? How do you know that it is cold and ugly? There is evidence (NDEs) that death is not as dark and ugly as you perceive it to be, but please tell us how you came to this conclusion.

The "selfish" argument cuts both ways. You would rather someone be miserable their whole life just so you won't feel grief from their early departure? That sounds selfish.

And remember, suicide is painless as it can be beautiful...

www.youtube.com...

reply to post by pluckynoonez



If you people think death is so peaceful and beautiful, why wear a seatbelt? a life jacket, helmet,etc. Because you DONT want to die.

Being so far gone that you cannot take life anymore is absolute rock bottom but you must be broken before you can be fixed. What if we all just off'd ourselves everytime something bad happened. We have all loved, all lost, but you gotta keep on going, its what makes us humans.

There is help out there people can use when they get this far, they just want to try and martyr themselves for their "cause". Suicide is stupid, thats just my opinion. I have no pity for those who do it, only for the hurt ones they have left behind with such a senseless tragedy.

Originally posted by stereovoyaged
reply to post by pluckynoonez

 

If you people think death is so peaceful and beautiful, why wear a seatbelt? a life jacket, helmet,etc. Because you DONT want to die.

Being so far gone that you cannot take life anymore is absolute rock bottom but you must be broken before you can be fixed. What if we all just off'd ourselves everytime something bad happened. We have all loved, all lost, but you gotta keep on going, its what makes us humans.

There is help out there people can use when they get this far, they just want to try and martyr themselves for their "cause". Suicide is stupid, thats just my opinion. I have no pity for those who do it, only for the hurt ones they have left behind with such a senseless tragedy.

The loss of a child would be a weight I would not want to bear. I dont want to say if you dont have kids you wont understand... but thats what it comes down to. You never know the true measure of love and selflessness until you see your own child and you never know the true depth of sorrow until that life is lost. We have all lost loved ones.. but a child is a different ballgame all together. IMHO.

Dax

p.s. my daughter is going in for surgery tomorrow. I cant imagine where I would be tomorrow night if I lost her.

Originally posted by ImzadiDax
p.s. my daughter is going in for surgery tomorrow. I cant imagine where I would be tomorrow night if I lost her.

Nothing but the best of luck to her. Hope everything goes well

Originally posted by stereovoyaged

Nothing but the best of luck to her. Hope everything goes well

Thank you. I have been on the cusp of losing her 1 time in her life. Last year she was pregnant and went into congestive heart failure. She was med flighted to St. Louis, I live in Wi. so I have to say that was the longest drive of my life.

I begged, pleaded, bartered and offered myself for her life on that drive. I had never entertained the thought that I might lose her. But now having been in that type of position I can see how the parents did what they did.


Hugs to you,
Dax

Originally posted by pieman
your heart is in the right place, i understand where you are coming from, but IMHO, somebody who takes their own life does nothing except take their pain and give it to somebody else.

I'll be straight up and honest..This is the only reason i am here to type these words..When having a tidal wave of problems and not knowing wich end was up in my life..The thought of my family dealing with the horific aftermath kept me from offing myself..

but in all honesty,if I wasnt married I probably would have..I didnt want my wife finding me in a pool of blood with bits of my head spattered on the head board..

I would say it would be much easier to do if you had someone you love dearly wanting to do the same over the same reason as the couple in the ops story..