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Originally posted by OmegaPoint
takes the meditator from Alpha, to Theta and then into Delta. A Zen or Yogi master will ordinarily achieve Alpha with dips into Theta and rarely enter Delta.
Originally posted by defcon5
Sorry to tell you this but…
Alpha waves are normal if you have your eyes closed and are awake. You don’t need a machine to make that happen, everyone does it. We use them to determine when a person falls asleep into stage one sleep.
Theta waves can be seen when either awake or asleep, also when getting drowsy.
Delta waves ONLY happen when the person is asleep, they are considered slow wave or stage 3 & 4 sleep.
So basically you’re either paying money for something that is making you fall asleep, most likely from boredom, or their website is full of new age BS. Probably some both…
Originally posted by defcon5
More then likely what this is causing is K-Complexes, which are brainwaves generated by Audio Stimulus.
Originally posted by defcon5
(3) there was no interaction between stimulus type and the size of the contralaterality effect; (4) there was no indication of binaural summation, rather we found stronger hemodynamic responses to the sum of both monaural stimulations (right and left ear) than to binaural stimulation in all auditory areas; (5) there were generally stronger hemodynamic responses to CV syllables than to tones in the posterior STG, while the hemodynamic responses to tones were stronger in the anterior part of the STG (temporal pole); and finally (6) there was no general difference in terms of hemodynamic response in the auditory cortex between the two groups when receiving either loudness-matched or non-loudness-matched monaural stimulation. These findings are discussed in the context of the underlying neurophysiological mechanisms, the peculiarities of functional fMRI, and the direct access and callosal relay models of hemispheric lateralization.
“there was no indication of binaural summation, rather we found stronger hemodynamic responses to the sum of both monaural stimulations than to binaural stimulation in all auditory areas”
Translation… Binaural stimulation did squat.
There is no scientific evidence that any device can help people by synchronizing the two sides of the brain or increasing the frequency of alpha waves (a type of brain wave).
Originally posted by defcon5
Sorry to tell you this but…
Alpha waves are normal if you have your eyes closed and are awake. You don’t need a machine to make that happen, everyone does it.
There is no scientific evidence that any device can help people by... increasing the frequency of alpha waves (a type of brain wave).
Centerpointe Research Rip Off Scam
This book is a pontification of Centerpointe Research's Holosync Program. Consider it one long testimonial rather than fact based information. Information in this book focuses solely on anecdotal reports for so-called Holosync Program users. Those who have dealings with Centerpointe have found them to fall into the category of internet rip off companies.There are extremely negative reports on the following sites: The Rip Off Report, Better Business Bureau of Oregon. It seems that this company, and it's pundit Bill Harris are dishonest, do not stand by their "satisfaction guaranteed" policy or cliams of company integrity.
Buyer Beware. It is claimed one will "meditate like a Zen monk" with this program, then when customers don't get the results promised, it is claimed that often "nothing happens...and that's ok, that's how the program is". One must marvel at the audacity of this company to sell absolutely nothing to it's customers. Please file a report with the Oregon Stae Attorney General and The Federal Trade Commission if you have been victimized by this company.
Originally posted by defcon5
I have to get wired up this weekend anyway for another test, so I might as well try this as well.
Originally posted by defcon5
They are shocked about it because its not normal.
Originally posted by defcon5
The only thing that I have learned from running EEG is how the brain works
In the continuing effort to understand the human brain, the mysteries keep piling up.
Our brains can fathom the beginning of time and the end of the universe, but is any brain capable of understanding itself?
With billions of neurons, each with thousands of connections, one's noggin is a complex, and yes congested, mental freeway. Neurologists and cognitive scientists nowadays are probing how the mind gives rise to thoughts, actions, emotions and ultimately consciousness.
The complex machine is difficult for even the brainiest of scientists to wrap their heads around.
Originally posted by OmegaPoint
Please leave the topic to others interested in the process of inducing deep medidation via binaural beat brainwave entrainment technology, thank you very much.
Originally posted by bsbray11
There are not many fields so influenced by your state of mind, as meditation. Talk about the placebo effect and just getting whatever results you're looking for.
Basically, it's the use of a tone differential introduced into each ear using stereo headphones, which causes two nuclei centers in the brain to set up a harmonic brainwave frequency, producing the brainwave patterns of deep meditation, without the required years of meditative practice achieving such states usually requires.
Originally posted by bsbray11
Do you really doubt the authenticity of the study showing that the Tibetan monks had dramatically different brain function than a sample of average Western people?
Originally posted by bsbray11
They didn't even need this technology. And similarly, it wouldn't do YOU any good because you wouldn't know how to make use of it; you don't even meditate to begin with.
Originally posted by bsbray11
You would probably sooner just sit there feeling slightly annoyed, and being convinced nothing will happen, than even make an effort to go with it and take your mind anywhere interesting.
Originally posted by bsbray11
This reminds me of someone who doesn't play violin, trying to prove a Vivaldi piece is impossible to play by attempting to play it by himself. No doubt he is going to keep failing at it for a long time.
Originally posted by bsbray11
Not normal for people who work a 9-5, eat fast food, watch TV and go to bed no more aware than they were at the beginning of the day, or even last year.
Originally posted by bsbray11
You're a living example of this mentality, as you obviously have no respect for any culture or perspective outside of the one you personally value.
Originally posted by bsbray11
Maybe if yourself and those you model yourself after weren't so prejudiced against studies like the one the Dalai Lama sponsored, you would be seeing more studies on these people, and not just scratching your head every time someone breaks one of your self-imposed rules.
Originally posted by bsbray11
I still think it's funny that you said you tell people who are wide awake that they are actually sleeping.
Originally posted by bsbray11
Obviously your science is abusing the privilege of creating technical definitions; "sleep" is now a meaningless term if I can apparently be awake during it.
Originally posted by bsbray11
less-than-mediocrity in a country that is no longer known for its intelligence and education, but for being passive, stupid, and unhealthy. See if you can avoid reinforcing the new American status quo.
Originally posted by bsbray11
The complex machine is difficult for even the brainiest of scientists to wrap their heads around.
Classic example of arrogance. You are just better than us, and everyone else, aren't you?
Originally posted by defcon5
Oh no you don’t…
Here you go again trying to swap apples for oranges. The claims on this thread, and on their home page about this device are:
Which means that I don’t need to be practiced in meditation for it to work, because the beats do it automatically. If the beats are not causing the change, then you are correct, its really about placebo effect.
Originally posted by bsbray11
Do you really doubt the authenticity of the study showing that the Tibetan monks had dramatically different brain function than a sample of average Western people?
A) You have not shown me that study that I have noticed.
The Dalai Lama ultimately dispatched eight of his most accomplished practitioners to Davidson's lab to have them hooked up for electroencephalograph (EEG) testing and brain scanning. The Buddhist practitioners in the experiment had undergone training in the Tibetan Nyingmapa and Kagyupa traditions of meditation for an estimated 10,000 to 50,000 hours, over time periods of 15 to 40 years. As a control, 10 student volunteers with no previous meditation experience were also tested after one week of training.
The monks and volunteers were fitted with a net of 256 electrical sensors and asked to meditate for short periods. Thinking and other mental activity are known to produce slight, but detectable, bursts of electrical activity as large groupings of neurons send messages to each other, and that's what the sensors picked up. Davidson was especially interested in measuring gamma waves, some of the highest-frequency and most important electrical brain impulses.
Both groups were asked to meditate, specifically on unconditional compassion. Buddhist teaching describes that state, which is at the heart of the Dalai Lama's teaching, as the "unrestricted readiness and availability to help living beings." The researchers chose that focus because it does not require concentrating on particular objects, memories or images, and cultivates instead a transformed state of being.
Davidson said that the results unambiguously showed that meditation activated the trained minds of the monks in significantly different ways from those of the volunteers. Most important, the electrodes picked up much greater activation of fast-moving and unusually powerful gamma waves in the monks, and found that the movement of the waves through the brain was far better organized and coordinated than in the students. The meditation novices showed only a slight increase in gamma wave activity while meditating, but some of the monks produced gamma wave activity more powerful than any previously reported in a healthy person, Davidson said.
B) This thread is not about meditation, you are bringing in apples to an orange convention again.
Originally posted by bsbray11
They didn't even need this technology. And similarly, it wouldn't do YOU any good because you wouldn't know how to make use of it; you don't even meditate to begin with.
Exactly my point, if its not the machine that is doing anything, then how is it different then a patient gaining benefit from taking a sugar pill?
IMHO the real reason why you don’t want me to test this is because, we both know what the results will end up being.
Originally posted by defcon5
Sorry to inform you of this, but it’s not only how medicine works, its also how science in general works. You get a baseline (normal), and you use that for comparison to everything else.
You ever think that maybe the Dalai Lama was the one who prejudiced those tests? After all it’s a part of their religion, I think that they might have a vested interest in the way those tests turned out, don’t you?
Originally posted by bsbray11
Obviously your science is abusing the privilege of creating technical definitions; "sleep" is now a meaningless term if I can apparently be awake during it.
Do to your lack of understanding of the topic, you are again incorrect. There are specific criteria that are used to determine scoring of sleep. One Delta Wave in an epoch does not slow wave make, however two K-Complexes in an epoch of REM makes stage two…
This is rather difficult to explain, but…
Originally posted by groingrinder
reply to post by defcon5
Robert Monroe has never claimed to be a medical expert. However thousands of people have used his methods with success.
I will bet there are bona fide medical experts who cannot claim his success or knowledge though.
Originally posted by defcon5
Ok, since this argument can go on forever, and no one wants to try this, I'll try it myself.
I found a example of these beats online and listened to them, they gave me an instant headache. Its like listening to static on the the TV set. The other one was like listening to a TV audio test signal. However I suppose I can suffer through it for 30 minutes or so.