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The Emergence of President Obama's Muslim Roots

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posted on Jun, 3 2009 @ 02:24 PM
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Next thing will be we artifically created Saddam and we personally orchestrated the fall of the Roman Empire. You are blinded by your liberal shortsightedness and ignorant to the facts.

reply to post by midiola
 




posted on Jun, 3 2009 @ 02:26 PM
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To repeat what other posters said about the OP, I see nothing in the source to justify the thread title.

I think we have to wait a bit longer to really make a judgment on Obama.

Few things to take note of.

No rumors of vote rigging (hhmmm what about the last bush).

No WMD madness.

You want to talk about slips well take a look at this,

Bush jokes about seeing 9/11 first crash before it aired on tv.

I think that so far America is at least 100 times better off now that Bush is out, not necessarily Obama in but Bush out.

Where does it say in the application form for president of the USA that you cannot be any religion apart from Christian?

Also fundamentalism is not strictly for the Muslim, Disturbing Documentry about Bush

I could go on and on but I think that balance is needed, Not knee jerk fear mongering sheeple herding.



posted on Jun, 3 2009 @ 02:27 PM
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Hey Midiola,

Looking at your Bill Hicks quote. What would Bill do if someone broke into his unlocked house and shot him with a gun? If he lived, you think his "lovie dovie" quote would be self-retracted? HAHAHHAreply to post by midiola
 



posted on Jun, 3 2009 @ 02:30 PM
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reply to post by CINY8
 


THe point is that it's nobody's freakin' business as long as those beliefs are not pushed onto others and are not a decesion makers main motivator.



posted on Jun, 3 2009 @ 02:39 PM
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This man's religion is completely irrelevant. I don't think he's a Muslim and I wouldn't care even if he was. The only people who do are the ones who think that Islam is a bad religion and it encourages violence. These people operate on the presumption that all Muslims are potential terrorists. In response, I say that any religion may be used to justify violence. A person committing an act of violence is primarily a reflection of their upbringing or individual experiences - not their religion. Christianity was used to persecute, torture, and murder people for hundreds of years. A person who blows up an abortion clinic in the name of Christianity is as much a terrorist as a Muslim who kills innocent civilians. Find me a quote from the Koran that encourages violence and I will find a quote from the bible that does so too.

Although anecdotal evidence is typically insufficient to prove a point, it can be valuable to disprove a premise that overgeneralizes, e.g., all Muslims are terrorists. I live in Michigan. I have known many Muslims from the various schools I have attended and my workplace. They have all been generally kind and generous. They have wives and husbands, sisters and brothers, mothers and fathers. They work to support their families, they go to school to be more successful and to better themselves. They're Americans - either born here or naturalized citizens. They didn't "infiltrate" the United States anymore than my mom, who is British, did so. I don't immediately ask someone what their religion is when we meet, and I certainly don't presume they're maliciously hiding something if they don't tell me. Religion alone doesn't define a person - it's one small factor out of many and anyone who claims that is more doesn't know what they're talking about.

If you have a problem with Obama's polices, say so. Attacking the man's personal history is really out of line - having a Muslim father or being raised in a Muslim country is nothing to be ashamed of. I've noticed a lot of attacks that a lawyer would call a technicalities. Rather than debating substantive issues, some people focus on his place of birth, his religion or his father's religion, etc., because it's much easier and they seem to hope that he will be thrown out of office regardless of his popularity or the success of his polices.

Show all of us a minimum amount of respect and stop claiming that his religion is unimportant to you and that you just don't like that he lied, presuming you think he lied, which I do not. People, especially politicians, should be judged on their actions, accomplishments, and mistakes. Obama and his family go to a Christian church, celebrates Christian holidays, and participates in Christian ceremonies and traditions. He's practicing this religion. He's doing none of these with regard to Islam.

If you want to police the man's thoughts, make presumptions and highlight misspoken words, that's your business. If you claim that he has intimate knowledge of Islam from where he has lived and his father, I agree. I think this background will be invaluable in his efforts to negotiate peace in the middle east. Your religion is what you believe and what you practice. I doubt anyone who practices a religion hasn't considered the possibility of practicing another. Does this momentary consideration make them a deceptive traitor to what they primarily believe and practice? Not at all, but it can allow them the ability to show greater tolerance others.

If this "scandal" was that Obama was a member of some group whose members are all criminals, then I would show it greater interest. Only a small number of Muslims are terrorists and US prisons are filled with people of may other faiths who have done horrible things. In my mind, their actions as individuals do not condemn their religions to a label of "evil by association."

Obama is not a practicing Muslim but if he decided to be one, I don't care.



posted on Jun, 3 2009 @ 02:44 PM
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You forgot to include the preceeding three words to the qoute below...

"Denis McDonough said"

The way you posted it made it appear as if President Obama was contradicting himself. Denis McDonough offered the first opinion and offered B. Obama senior as an example....Obama made the second statement.

Obama didn't lie.

The BS never ends with you folks.


Originally posted by mhc_70
reply to post by maybereal11
 


From the article...




Insert by Maybereal11 *Denis McDonough said *
the President himself experienced Islam on three continents before he was able to -- or before he's been able to visit, really, the heart of the Islamic world -- you know, growing up in Indonesia, having a Muslim father -- obviously Muslim Americans (are) a key part of Illinois and Chicago."
-snip-
The candidate's comment at a Boca Raton, Florida, town hall meeting on May 22, 2008, was typical: "My father was basically agnostic, as far as I can tell, and I didn't know him".





[edit on 3-6-2009 by maybereal11]



posted on Jun, 3 2009 @ 02:56 PM
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Tired of sorting through the BS. It would be great if Forum Moderators kept an eye on this crap...it's easy to point out where text has been changed, altered or taken out of context...all to suit propaganda purposes.

It's like watching a drunk magician at a childs birthday party. Just look closely and the slight of hand is painfully obvious.

Please folks! Examine evidence, question what folks post here, ask for sources and then check the sources....Is the article sourced? Who wrote the article? So many of which are sites run or owned by folks associated white supremists. Anyone can say anything on the internet...but can they prove it? Google, research...please.

I am done here for a while....a relief I am sure to the hoards of BSers constructing lies and pulling their hair out that Obama was elected our President.



posted on Jun, 3 2009 @ 02:57 PM
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reply to post by Heisenberg
 


I don't know what Bill would do, but I would not let that be my motivation. Heck, my car was robbed three times and I still leave my door open, not because I'm dumb or I forget, but because I know that living in fear consumes people. I've made my peace with consequences of living without a gun.



posted on Jun, 3 2009 @ 03:00 PM
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I have to be quite honest here, it doesn't matter. Religion should not even be mentioned in regards to politics, nor should politics be intermingled with religion. This is why this country is crumbling at the seams.

Any time you inject religion into politics, you wind up with a theocracy, which leads to such atrocities as the inquisition, witch hunt and crusades. If you inject politics into religion, you wind up getting more of the same.

I puke every time I hear statements such as, "Well, I'd never vote for Romney because he is Mormon, and yada, yada."
People should be judged more upon their political ideology than on what flavor of religion they are.



posted on Jun, 3 2009 @ 03:03 PM
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You guys keep claiming Obama lied to you about his faith but until you have undeniable evidence that he is a practicing Muslim you can't seriously call him a liar and have it mean anything. Bush is a liar, because he said their were WMD's but their weren't. Clinton was a liar cause he said he didn't do the nasty but he did... When he admits he's a Muslim or until pictures are posted of him kneeling on a rug praying in the Oval Office I will humbly disagree with your arguments.



posted on Jun, 3 2009 @ 03:07 PM
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Him being a Muslim isn't a big deal, but this is laughable. Why? Because the media is so in love with Obama, they covered for him all through the elections and played soft ball with him. Anyone honest with themselves knows this. The media doesn't even hide their adoration for him.

I remember when Obama was on with George Stephanopoulos, and he slipped and said "because of my Muslim faith." Stephanopoulos immediately 'corrected' Obama. Had that been anyone else running for office, they would have went on to the next line of questions - and the 'gaff' would have been repeated on all the shows ad nauseum.



posted on Jun, 3 2009 @ 03:08 PM
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Originally posted by freighttrain
To judge a man by his religion/faith shows how shallow you think!!

To NOT judge a mans lies shows how blind you are.
And you've been told over and over ... it's his LIES that are the problem.


Originally posted by 720degrees
Do your research ISLAM comes from the vatican. So Muslim and Christains worship the same european/arabic God Yahweh/Allah.

Wrong. :shk:

Christians worship a Trinity God - Father, Son, Holy Spirit.
To the Muslims this would be the pagan worship of multiple Gods.
The DO NOT believe in the divinity of Christ or the Holy Spirit.

Allah and the Christian God are two different things altogether.


Originally posted by neformore
Nothing in that article suggests Obama has lied about anything. All it suggests is that his fathers roots were downplayed during the campaign in order to pander to the lowest common denominator.


You say 'downplay' ... others say 'lie'.
But we agree with the PANDER part.
I've said many times - his true religion is PANDER.
Whoever his audience is at the time ... that's who he plays to.


Originally posted by midiola
I'd rather have someone lie to me in order to really help this country ...

1 - That part about lies is just so odd I have no words ...
2 - Obama isn't helping. He's hurting.


Originally posted by maybereal11
He has not lied.

He has lied. And he has pandered.


He is TOLERANT and ACCEPTING of other faiths

He's only tolerant and accepting of whoever he is with at that moment.
If you are a group that isn't standing in front of him at that time - he nails
you.

Are you a typical white person (like his grandmother) or an ignorant white person who clings to your gun and religion?


...as were our founding fathers.

Obama isn't anything like our founding fathers.
Don't go carving his image on Mt. Rushmore just yet.


Originally posted by gimme_some_truth
My question is this... So what? Would you really not vote for a person soley because he is not christian>

:shk: For the hundredth time ... it's his LIES, not his religion.


I am ashamed at the intolarence I am seeing here today

Oh brother.
Trying to claim that exposing Obama's lies is 'intolerance'. Deflection at it's worst. Why not just pull out the tired old race card and play that ???


Originally posted by maybereal11
In one polling place in Philadelphia, yes two self proclaimed black panthers stood outside a polling place with billy clubs claiming to provide security for African American voters ...

Sorry maybereal but I'm calling BS ALERT on that. They were NOT 'providing security for African American voters'. They were there, on their own, INTIMIDATING white voters and yelling hate speech at them.

Yelling "You are about to be ruled by a black man, cracker' at white people who were peacefully going to vote ... that's not providing security to black voters.

thread here


Originally posted by andrewh7
If you have a problem with Obama's polices, say so. Attacking the man's personal history is really out of line -


... and there goes another one.


You people seriously need to get it through your heads - it's about his LIES. And it definately is in line to expose the lies of any politician. All this deflection of trying to scream 'intolerance' or whatever is just bull.



posted on Jun, 3 2009 @ 03:13 PM
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I wouldn't care if my president is a Mormon, Catholic or a Jew or even Agnostic.
I don't care that Obama is black. I DO care if he is Muslim. I'll be real and say it. I don't want a Muslim President. So, hang me, burn me, shoot me. Whatever.

This is for the previous poster (a few pages back) who said a Muslim would never lie about is beliefs. I'm not so sure if that is true. According to some things I have read and seen, it is ok for a Muslim to lie if....




Muhammad said: "Lying is wrong, except in three things: the lie of a man to his wife to make her content with him; a lie to an enemy, for war is deception; or a lie to settle trouble between people" (Ahmad, 6.459. H).




Taqiyya is the principle that is if lying serves an Islamic cause, then dissimulation may be employed.





Qur'an 2:225. "Allah will not call you to account for thoughtlessness (vain) in your oaths, but for the intention in your hearts; and He is Oft-forgiving, Most Forbearing."


www.wikiislam.com...

other info to ponder
www.thereligionofpeace.com...
www.accessmylibrary.com...



[edit on 6/3/2009 by Zaydie]

[edit on 6/3/2009 by Zaydie]



posted on Jun, 3 2009 @ 03:16 PM
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Interesting.

LA Times - Wrong Venue for Obama's Muslim Speech


To speak to the "Muslim world", is to speak not to a fact, but rather to an aspiration, and that is the aspiration that Islam shall be a global state religion as its founders intended. To address this aspiration is to breathe life into it . For an American president to validate such an aspiration is madness. America is not at war with Islam, unless, that is, Islam were to take a political form that threatens America's global interests. These interests include friendly relationships with nation-states that have a Muslim majority, such as Egypt, Turkey and Jordan. To address "the Muslim world" is to conjure up a prospective enemy, for global political Islam only can exist as the enemy of the nation-states with which America has allied.

Obama, the White House press office told reporters last week, will address among other issues the Arab-Israeli issue. What does it imply to raise this issue in a speech to the "Muslim world"? Nearly 700 million of the world's 1.4 billion Muslims live in Indonesia, Pakistan, India and Bangladesh, countries which share no linguistic or cultural affinities with the Arabs, and have only religion in common.



posted on Jun, 3 2009 @ 03:19 PM
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Originally posted by andrewh7
This man's religion is completely irrelevant. I don't think he's a Muslim and I wouldn't care even if he was.


Once again for the reading impaired, this thread is about the deception and lies about obama's religion, not his religion, per se. And for the people that love to bring Bush into any thread about obama, wasn't Bush's family fair game for all of you that hated him?


Although anecdotal evidence is typically insufficient to prove a point, it can be valuable to disprove a premise that overgeneralizes, e.g., all Muslims are terrorists.


Don't recall anyone saying here that all muslims are terrorists. Not even part of the discussion.


If you have a problem with Obama's polices, say so. Attacking the man's personal history is really out of line


Obama's "policies" have been rightfully discussed on many other threads. Again, not part of this discussion.


Show all of us a minimum amount of respect and stop claiming that his religion is unimportant ...


In this thread it has been pointed out that obama would likely not been elected if the truth about his religion had not been suppressed. That is the only relevance to this thread, but it is a key point.


If this "scandal" was that Obama was a member of some group whose members are all criminals, then I would show it greater interest.


Obama is a member of a group of criminals if you include all the tax cheats, etc. he appointed to his cabinet.

BTW, thanks for the "foe" designation. I'll always treasure it. An "I heart Obama" button is on its way back to you.

[edit on 6/3/2009 by centurion1211]



posted on Jun, 3 2009 @ 03:19 PM
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I have a big problem with him being a Muslim. And I'm not ashamed or embarrased to say it, either.

While I don't for one minute believe that all muslims are members of a bloodthirsty terrorist organization, I DO have a problem with a man or woman of Muslim faith being at the highest levels of our government and here's why.

Why? America is at war with terror, in any form, whether it comes from the IRA, the Middle East, Africa or wherever. The fact is, our biggest enemy is the Muslim extremist. So a Muslim in a position of absolute power in this country would be a direct conflict of interest and would present unique challenges to the one in power - challenges that may require him or her to put aside their Muslim faith, as was required by JFK of his Catholic religion when he was elected. And given how adamant and cemented we've seen Muslims are with regard to their religion, I'm not at all convinced that a Muslim man or woman could or would put their religion aside to do what was best for this country if the need ever arose.



posted on Jun, 3 2009 @ 03:20 PM
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If you would have locked your doors after the first robbery, then the second and third would probably not have happened. Ex: A girl sneaks into prison to find a friend. While there she is raped. The next day, not learning from her mistake, she sneaks into prison and is again raped. Still, not learning from her mistake, she sneaks into prison and is raped for the third time. Now, if she sneaks in for a fourth time, what do you think will happen? I bet your car is going to be robbed for a fourth time. Laughable!

reply to post by midiola
 



posted on Jun, 3 2009 @ 03:20 PM
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I am going to say something really politically INcorrect. A Muslim has no business running this country. That is what a lot of us are thinking, but are uncomfortable to say because its "racist" or politically incorrect; however, its true.

We are now about 8 years separated from the reality of 9/11. For the Americans on this board, please think back to September 12, 2001. How did you feel about Muslims on that date? Your feelings on that date were correct. You were not being manipulated by political correctness that makes this Country great and weak at the same time.

I am an atheist BUT I understand that we ARE in a religious war. Muslims in the mid-east and Asia hate America! Mohammed Atta and his boys lived in this country for years before they killed 3,000 innocent civilians. They had jobs here, there children went to our schools and played with our kids, and on September 11, 2001, they murdered 3,000 people for absolutely no reason other than the fact that they are "Infidels."

"Truthers" please don't try to educate me about who it was Bush, Cheney, Mossad, or any other entity that attacked us on 9/11. Save that for another thread.


BESLAN, Russia, Sept. 4 – Hundreds of children, their parents and teachers died in the bloody culmination of a 52-hour siege that began when heavily armed Muslim guerrillas stormed their school Wednesday and ended in an hours-long battle with Russian troops Friday.
www.washingtonpost.com...


2002: Dozens killed in Bali nightclub explosion
Reports from the Indonesian holiday island of Bali say more than 50 people have been killed in two explosions.
news.bbc.co.uk...

Warning Graphic: Daniel Pearl Video


(CBS/AP) A video posted on an Islamic Web site Monday showed the beheading of a man identified in the tape as American construction contractor Eugene Armstrong.

The killing was purportedly carried out personally by top terror suspect Abu Musab al-Zarqawi.

In Washington, a U.S. official, speaking on condition of anonymity, said Armstrong's body had been recovered, but the official would provide no information about where or when it had been found.
www.cbsnews.com...


An upstate TV exec who set up a channel promoting Muslims as peace-loving people was stressed about his failing business in the days before he allegedly chopped off his estranged wife's head, a friend of the couple said today.
www.nypost.com...

I'm sorry if I offend some of you open minded ATSers, but until Islam leaves the middle ages and joins us in the 21st century, they are a grave and gathering threat to the rest of us.

People will point to the Old testament or the New Testament to show that those documents have some extreme elements in them, but other than a random act of violence (e.g. abortion doctor incident), Christians and Jews don't stone women, behead their enemies, cut off the hands of thieves, execute homosexuals, openly condone pedophilia, target civilians with suicide bombers, burn down embassies because of cartoons, etc....

Muslims even kill each other because they disagree over who was the rightful leader of Islam after Mohammed died.

What's the Difference Between Shia and Sunni Muslims?

They are nuts. If Obama subscribes to this faith, he is not qualified to run this secular country. If you think I am a racist, so be it.



posted on Jun, 3 2009 @ 03:23 PM
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Very good post!


reply to post by finemanm
 



posted on Jun, 3 2009 @ 03:24 PM
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Originally posted by FlyersFan

LA Times - Wrong Venue for Obama's Muslim Speech


America is not at war with Islam,




Ahhh, bull. Flyers, one of these days you will realize, as well as a great many others will, that the "War on terrorism" is a religious war. Given that America is a "Christian nation," it is very much at war with Islam.



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