conscious Oobe....It's Real!!

Originally posted by kiliker30
while tryin to oobe a few times i do end up out of no where waking up as if i fell asleep...but i feel my body vibrating as if i left and had no idea about it...i mean its possible that i did fall asleep..but i do not remember a thing at all..just blank...and a rush kind of feeling after...did i have an oobe or not..or like you said River...was i just blind and def?~Kiliker

Well maybe so....but there is no doubt in MY mind when this is all going on that I am not asleep. I kinda think that if you think you MIGHT have been asleep then you probebly were........the experiance I am having is a seriously councious one, and no way no how am I sleepin.....
MAYBE you ARE flyin deaf and blind and just tell yourself your sleepin and then actually fall asleep during....I return to myself before I can go to sleep....its way to weird over on the other side for me to relax enough to fall asleep while flyin blind. I am learning that the experiance is differant for differant people though.....

EBE astral projection

after being scientifically examined by my EBE counter parts, they somehow preformed an operation on me while i was still laying on my couch in my living room. they were doing something to my stomach with from what i can concure was some sort of a particle accelerating beam unit, pearing in and preforming operations on my stomach, a somewhat painful procedure which went on for about 15 minutes, when all of a sudden i felt my body astrally project itself into their ship where i was laying just like how i was laying on my couch, i could sense the EBE sitting around me but i couldnt see anything... yet. i felt the ship take a hard right turn and accelerate, all thanks to my primitive and amaturistic sense of remote viewing. the ship stopped somewhere out there and i felt a hand pick up my soul out of my body. it was the EBE! we started to fly around what looked like some office buildings, i was having trouble flying at first so the EBE took my hand (this guy looked to me like a small grey his head was huge! he also looked cordially adept at flying like he was used to this sort of phenomenon.) while we were flying i was trying to tell him that i was in fact a telepathic like he was, but the thoughts just wouldnt get out, some one told me that it might have been a fault of mine like being at a loss for words, but i felt that he already knew excaclty what i was going to say so he made it that there was no need to communicate these things. the power of this beings mind left me awstruck. everysingle word i tryed to get out was just negated instantaneosly. at which point we landed, sitting in a garden i told him i needed to pray (not having prayed earlier that morning, im a buddhist) so i assumed the position, and poof (like magic) back into my body! where i was fully awake, i then proceeded outside for a smoke. what an amazing night! just thought id share that with you guys.

[edit on 17-12-2005 by sturod84]

even in a basically anonymous forumn, I can't believe I'd let this known about *me*... however I am a tad interested in this subject because of OOB experiences I had as a child.

I did not consciously try to astroproject, nor did I by definition...wasn't out zooming about on some other plane relishing the stars with any "rushing wind" sounds...though I did perceive the physical world around me just as I would with physical eyes and ears...

OK, here we go...what I would do was gently effortlessly leave my body quite often when very relaxed at night in bed. I was completely mentally conscious and not dreaming, however I was definately seperated from my body....sometimes while not reluctantly, still not by my own will either it seemed...

Anyway, I could move with ease around my home and did. I could spy on people too-lol. I don't know why...but I never went too far...never left my house and when I did seem to go too far, I was usually quickly pulled back into my physical body. Very quickly. This once happened when I was being physically "awoken" from my "sleep" I was almost instantaneously pulled back into my body and was momentarily physically paralyzed-like my body had not caught up with the fact I had re-entered it...

... and another time when I had bobbed and floated my way down the hall past my sister's room and found her in the livingroom, and I attempted to reach out and touch her while was lay sleeping on the livingroom floor-well I was immediately yanked back into my body.

The force was so quick it was like an extremely strong vacuum-LOL-when I re-entered my body my arms (to touch my sister) were immediately simultaneously outstretched as I laid there in my body again in bed.

NO paralysis that time! I then physically got out of bed and walked physically down the hall to wake her, tell her to go to bed and to ask her why she was sleeping on the floor in there anyway...

but she was not there...hmmm....I thought...I KNOW it wasn't a dream...dreams of "flying" etc were much different than reality of being out of body...but I was left scratching my head until as I turned to go back down the hall past my sister's room again she called out to me quietly asking me what I was doing up/doing going to the livingroom etc...

I said I was looking for her-that I thought she was in the livingroom...

she asked why I had thought she'd be in the livingroom in the middle of the night?

I lied and claimed I didn't know...was just tired I guess and not thinking straight...

she laughed and told me to go back to bed...

next morning she asked me again..."Do you remember looking for me last night?" I said I clearly did, and she asked "What made you think I was in the livingroom, you walked right past my bedroom without even checking?"

Again, I lied and said I didn't know...

she said, did you feel like someone was in the livingroom maybe? Did you kind of just "sense" someone there do you think?"

I said, I don't know...maybe..knowing it wasn't the acurrate truth but wondering where she was going...

She said "Because I WAS in the livingroom, just seconds before you came walking past my room.... I had been laying on the livignroom floor listening to the stereo (we had a big console stereo) quietly...but all of a sudden I felt a presence in the room...

I couldn't see anyone, but I definately felt a presence in the livingroom with me...and it felt like it was coming closer to me, like it was going to touch me-it freaked me out so I quickly ran to my bedroom and got into bed with covers! Then not a minute later I saw you walking past my door to go to the livingroom and I wondered why?!

it kind of freaked me out-even though I saw it was you-I wondered why you were going towards the livingroom and wondered if I should call to you, stop you, even warn you....that there was some presence there...I know I sound crazy, but I swear I felt *something* in the livigroom and it was a live presence...

I said..."Well, I don't think you're crazy at all."

"Then you felt something to when you went in there? "

And I said "um....no...but I still don't think you're crazy at all."

LOL

Anyway, as time went on I did want to learn to control the act of leaving my boady and re-entering it etc...but when I attempted to speak of the subject with those who seemed enlightened on such I was discouraged from it entirely. They told me it was very real to do so, and OOB and astroprojecting could be learned to be highly mastered and controled, however...

BIG HOWEVER HERE... leaving your body void of it's spirit leaves it open prey for other spiritual entities which wil never be born of a physical form, and are envious, and in search of forms they may habitate... as well as, some who have gone before in physical from, and are now living without physical form and seek the life of flesh...

as well as other physical/spiritual entities that likewise mastered OOB so as to project themselves into unprotected unsuspecting bodies...

A dead body is of no use...but a live, unprotected body void of a spirit was exactly what they seek-all of the described above...

Anyway, I didn't want to go OOB...to find I couldn't return because my bod was otherwise now occupied!! LOL

So...be careful folks...

I have noticed several posts in this threads speak of unwanted spirits inhabiting your physical body while astral projecting. To date I haven't read any posts addressing this issue satisfactorily. I have only just recently (last few weeks) began to realise the possibility of astral projecting as in fact a probability. Once I realised this I was very excitied and couldn't to try it out but it never occurred to me that there might be some dangers to it until last week. These unwanted spirits taking over your physical body are now compounding the issue and I really need to know how I can protect myself from them when I do eventually astral project.

Just to draw the picture for you, I am quite adept at lucid dream and feel very confident that I will be able to explore reality, rather than my imagination when I have a lucid dream. In my lucid dreams and can get out of any undesirable situation and emrge at any location instantly by phasing (I thought I invented this term a few years ago meaning to dematerialise and instantly rematerialse someone else, but after visiting this website it appears that many people know of this term). I imagine that these skills will be available to me when I explore reality in mu lucid dreams, but until it happens I do not know. This is what I mean by astral projecting.

Please provide some advice on protecting my physical body from intruders.

Thanks and congratulations to those of you who have had OOBE's, reading your posts is very inspiring.

wow....awsome stories folks THANKS for sharing!


Guess what? I was out and about last night AND I COULD SEE & HEAR! YEY!
It was difficult to get out though, I ended up doing a visualasation whilst hearing the rushing noise, of squeezing through a keyhole and BLAM I was out. First time I had to really WORK at getting out, usually the sound just 'takes me'.

I could see and hear in my travels last night, though exactly WHAT I was up to is hard to explain.....the memories are odd, like a dreamlike experiance.....but when I got back I was fully awake and went and got myself a bowel of cereal. I took some notes so I could try and clearly say what went on, but they are odd as well. The notes are as followed:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Got out, heard music....odd instruments can't say what they were.
Wound up in a room with 7 others who all seamed to know each other well.....I had no clue who they were.....they acted like they knew me. I asked about all the blindness and they only laughed, and said not to be so serious it was a celebration.
I watched this celebration........and was chided for not fully participating. I said I was not sure what was expected of me.....they laughed and said I was to serious.
I stayed at this celebration and watched......I never quite figured out who they were or what was REALLY going on............
I decided to try and go to NM and see a friend......I got there really FAST...and it seamed as if they were having some kind of a threesome I did not want to intrude so I was trying to leave and wound up back at the gathering. I was then laughed at and told I should'nt go see what people are doing if I do not really want to know what they are really up to.
Frusteration overcame me, and I came back to myself.........feeling confused.

WHAT was THAT all about anyway?? It really seemed dreamlike, but I was not dreaming............
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Ok, so that is my notes from last night. I am just happy I could see and hear!

EDIT to add that while writing THIS I have a strange ringing in my ears......right side of my head a high pitch EEEEEEEEEEEE making me feel lopsisded and kinda dizzy...........ack ack ack

[edit on 17-12-2005 by theRiverGoddess]

This subject is absolutely fascinating. River goddess.....thanks for all the updates and info on your experiences. I have thought about astral travel or OOBE's before, but never really seriously tried it. But, i do have my own inate ability, and experience.

I do have the ability to relax my body to the point of a very "light" feeling, where i am completely numb. I can feel no part of my body, and i can't move a millimeter. Meditaion while trying to sleep was my goal, although, i found that i was able to releive pain, and even become more comfortable with my surroundings that initially when i lay down.

i guess you could say i figured out how to really go into a deep relaxed state...this is the first step yes?

I do believe it is possible to project, and have an OOBE, and all this information is very motivating....as i am eager to try it tonight. I don't feel afraid so much as i am curious. Although, i'm curious mostly of where i would go after, or should i say, if i get out.

I hope that your "travels" are going well...

Could you shed some insight on what you think is necessary for sight and sound when travelling?

I know most of what you experienced has been posted, discussed, tryed to debunk, and etc. --but i am an avid supporter, and i would like to explore this spiritual side of the human psychi ?!(spellcheck)

Correct me if i'm wrong after reading extensivly (and quite long) thread postings of great info..

Relax

Meditation

Concentration

No fear

Trust

would i be correct in these assupmtions? I am new to astral projection and OOBE. But i want to make sure that i don't end up in egypt when i should be checkin out the corner tree-house!

yes your list is most excellant!

um....I can't give advise on where to go because I am directionally retarded in the astral. No jokin....................I would think the Akashic records is really the ultimate place to try and get to.....from what I have read.

[edit on 19-12-2005 by theRiverGoddess]

I haven't read all the posts yet, but so far they're very informative. Amazingly informative, I should say. I've been tried to induce OOBE a few times, but came to the conclusion that I must start smaller first. I recently experienced my first Lucid Dream, short lived though.

I had been trying to have one every night for the last six months, and I only got the reality feeling. Where it would feel real but I had no clue I was dreaming. When I finally felt the Actual Reality of a lucid dream, I got so excited that I didn't even have enough time to do a reality check, I woke up, I was so excited. I believe that I also had a False awakening later on, but I was too tired to tell.

So, I only had a question. Is it possible to move from a Lucid Dream to an OOBE? And, if so, wouldn't it be easier to practice?

I would think not, since you are already projecting yourself into your own reality/plain/realm is it possible to move back and forth, between the two? What about other realms?

Please feel free to U2U me, I'm interested in all points of Views, all religious beliefs, and anything that has to do with different states your mind is capable of reaching.

i'm with kokasion on this one.....i tried it last night...and had some strange results..

i am very adapt at relaxing my whole body...and i just cleared my mind...and tried to imagine sittin up, or floating straight up...(still laying)

i felt a couple of times a rush in my face, like a headrush when you get up too fast, but not painful...and i kept reassuring myself that it was ok, and that i could go, there was nothing to fear..etc..but nothing happened. except................

i decided to give up, it was almost 4 am...i lay down at 130.

i tried to move on my side and go to sleep, but was paralized.

is that normal? also when i was trying to "escape" my body became increasingly heavier...almost like gravity increased, but no pressure was exerted on the top of my chest or legs or anything...

If any of you could shed some insight on that, i'd really like to know..if i'm doing it right or wrong...

and what is it about lucid dreaming..?
how do you do that? i think that would be just as entertaining.

plz help if you can....i am really excited about this, and would appreciate greatly any help you can give. post here or u2u me.......

great topic.--i never considered this type of experience until i read about you guys...

oh yeah...river goddess, could you elaborate on the akashic records...or maybe some links to some of your research sites?

thanks.

When you come across an occasion that you remember one of your dreams you need to pay attention to anything that seems unusual. It is rare that a dream doesn't contain any of the following:

Strange surroundings: Inside looks like one place and outside looks like another location

Famous People: Coming across someone famous without the fact that they're famous being a focus point

Odd time: Time of the day or year seeming strange.

Interrupted Sequence: Try and remember what you were doing yesterday and see if you can fill in all the gaps that lead up to the present time.

Almost always ALL of this conditions will not be met, and providing you go through this checklist in your dream you will certainly be able to realise it's a dream, at which point you will be lucid dreaming and you can do whatever you want. In theory if you get into the habit of running through this checklist whilst you are awake it will become habit and you should end up doing it while you are dreaming also. However in my experience this method didn't happen that easily in practice. Another point to remember is that at anytime if you ever suspect that you might be dreaming, then you most definitely are dreaming because do you ever have any doubt when you are awake?

Mytym, Weelllll. I once wished I was dreaming, but I was sure I wasn't. I had a heart attack, though on a very small scale. And didn't seek medical attention, for legal purposes. Since then I've been seeking greater thrills, such as self exploration, and adrenaline rushes of the Athletic sort.

Kengalbrect(Is that right?) from what I gathered in the 5 seconds that I experienced in Lucid Dreaming, you feel awake, and you're pretty much conscious. Absolutely Conscious. This is how it went, I was trying the repetative inducement thingamabob. For the last week I've practiced the reality checks alot in waking life, even now I'm going over what I read for more than spell checking purposes. I'm sure I have a few. Reality checks are like, looking at your watch to check the time, then remembering the time, and looking back at it, it shouldn't have progressed more than a minute. In a dream, it most likely wouldn't be the same. It might not even be a real time, or maybe the time in text, or even a novel... >.> There are other things you can do to check the genuity of your realty, but I'm going to move on.

I was using the repetative method, while falling asleep, since I had been relying mostly on myself being competent enough to perform a reality check in my dream, I hadn't developed a strong enough habit yet. I was repeating oer and over again, "I'm dreaming. I'm dreaming. I'm dreaming." But the last 200 times I had tried this, I would wander off, into thinking of something else. BUT... This time, I continued, because I turned it into an annoying song, like the ones you can't get out of your head, and you subconsciously sing it under your breath. It was kind of in the NaaaNaNaaaNaNaaaaNaaa melody. So once I fell asleep, I went into a dream. I started to sing it in my dream and as soon as I did. It was like a scene Jump, farther into the dream. I probably became conscious later in the dream, but just had amnesia of the contents of inbetween. I instantly knew It was a lucid dream, because the real feeling of it was more than I expected. And what I expected was a dissapointment.

It was genuine. How you feel when you are consciously reading this post is how I felt. Completely awake. Only I knew it was a dream, because it felt much more real than reality. The colors were vibrant, and radiant. I was massaging someone's back, and my brother and sister were sitting on the left and right side of her (Mostlikely my girlfriend in The States) and the backround was a reddish brownish color glowing with gold aura. It was... Amazing. So amazing that I woke up, as soon as I figured out what I was doing in my dream.

I didn't have enough time to explore my imagination, but I'm sure if I did, I wouldn't have been able to make a descision. One thing I did notice about the lucid dream, other than the conscious feeling, was the depth... I never noticed how much depth perception I DON'T have in a dream. But in this, I could actually see the emptiness of the Brownish Reddish Gold Aura backround.

But my advice to you, if you want to have a lucid dream, is to come completely obbsessed with it, and not just verty interested. But please, don't throw away your waking life. It is possible to become obssessed only at night. Because when you're awake you have things to do..... >.> I've just noticed how much I've rambled and how much irrelevance I've included.... This isn't where I parked my CAR!! >.> -Leaves quietly-

I've got a question. Can anyone describe the difference in Appearence between the Astral 'realm' and the Physical 'realm' Because I had a reall strange dream the other night, it was actually about 2 weeks ago. It was crazy, and it had the general Idea of AP, but not quite. Because the world wasn't exactly the same. Alot of things defied the laws of gravity, physics even. I actually started to write a book on it. Though I'm only a few chapters in, since I'm not that good with Plot Development. I'm mostly using it to express my feelings toward Pihilosophy and Religion. My more, detailed points of view. I haven't gotten as far as to the Detailed Appearance of this other 'Dimension' but tonight, I'm starting on a short story with no real plot, only an event, that takes place within the actual Story. But, my perception of this world was. My house was ripped from the ground, but the basement was still intact with the earth, though the earth was no longer round, nor was it hole. It was more individual pieces. It looked quite Chaotic, the main theme for the story, I'll save for you to read in the short story. Please Look it up, it should be done in no more than a week. I'll post here, once I'm finished. Anybody who enjoys even imagining about Astral Projection, might find this ammusing. I'll try to keep it detailed, because so far, I need to elaborate more on the physical events, and appearances if. I've been rambling on too much about the thoughts and ideals of the characters, rather than, what they're doing.

Rivergoddess I dont think id be wrong to assume there are alot of people on this forum who dont believe a word your saying. You dont have to prove a thing but if you want to give people solid proof lets try a little experiment. First track me down and tell me exactly what I was doing at a certain part of the day, tell me where I was and who I was with etc.

I know that will only offer proof to me but if you can do that then I can think of a few ways to get solid proof that you do in fact have to ability to leave your body and astral travel.

I said..."Well, I don't think you're crazy at all."

"Then you felt something to when you went in there? "

And I said "um....no...but I still don't think you're crazy at all."

LOL

And why in the name of god didnt you tell your sister the presence she felt was you?? Nobody could doubt you had astral travelled into the room after something like that happening.

BIG HOWEVER HERE... leaving your body void of it's spirit leaves it open prey for other spiritual entities which wil never be born of a physical form, and are envious, and in search of forms they may habitate... as well as, some who have gone before in physical from, and are now living without physical form and seek the life of flesh...

With that said a few questions come to mind.
What decided which spirit takes the body?
Is there a form of fighting in the astral world?
Can you astrally beat the crap outta someone?
Can the astral body be wounded or injured or even die?
If you leave your body and while your gone another entity decides to hijack it how would you go about getting your body back?
Would you say demonic possessions are caused by astral beings strong enough to actually hijack someones body with them in it?
Would it be possible for many entities to occupy but not necessarily operate one body? For example, sometimes I feel like theres other forms of conscious occupying my mind. They dont seem to have any control over my body but they seem to effect the thought process and give their opinion when im making a decision or something like that. Sometimes id be thinking whether I should do something or not and all of a sudden in a completely different tone of voice to mine, I get a thought explaining reasons why I should or shouldnt do that.

Does it help if you're in the state of being so tired and about to fall asleep that you start thinking of completely random thoughts?

(As in help you have to have an OOBE)

Also, could the feeling when you wake up and feel as if you've just landed from a fall have something to do with it?

[edit on 21-12-2005 by mashup]

the only thing i can say is i belive it to be true i have had 2 experiances and both were really scary because i had no intention on it nor did i seek it. it felt as though i were paralized i couldnt even flinch my eyes and my whole body had a very unique tingle sensation it felt like forever while it was happening, then my body felt as though it was raising off my bed and i could see my self but not at the same time because i was facing upward and i was aware of and seen everything around me like i had eyes everywhere. now u can call me crazy or what u will but it happened. and the other time i was just trying to sleep and it was happing again i felt my self go into quite a few times but never let it happen because i feared it but this time i let myself go to it and i started to get the experiance again and i started hearing ppl talking but i was alone then it grew louder and louder till it sounded like i was in an arena of ppl talking. i cannot not even grasp what the hell was going on and i always shut it out when i think of it because its alot to take in yet alone tell other ppl about it so i hoped that helped i dont understand entirly but i believe it happened when my brain waves went to alpha wave from beta waves, at the point of sleep when ur body goes to sleep u remain awake and have both subconscience and conscience going at the same time i dont know tho so check into it

Originally posted by fishbrain
Rivergoddess I dont think id be wrong to assume there are alot of people on this forum who dont believe a word your saying. You dont have to prove a thing but if you want to give people solid proof lets try a little experiment. First track me down and tell me exactly what I was doing at a certain part of the day, tell me where I was and who I was with etc.

I know that will only offer proof to me but if you can do that then I can think of a few ways to get solid proof that you do in fact have to ability to leave your body and astral travel.

I don't think that even if she could OBE at will, that she would track you down... And this place is for Believers, and you don't WANT to believe, it seems. To have to explain how it is possible is just Tedious beyond the point of contemplation. To come to the understanding of how it's real without becoming some nut job who lies about it, is very complicated. I myself had a different opinion on the people that could actually do it, but in reality it's nothing like you would stereotype. Trust me, it's real. But it's not like some sort of TV thing. Like I said before. Lucky people are able to OBE atleast twice a month. Hopfully, someday, people will be able to do it whenever the hell. But right now, it's very VERY hard, and takes alot of Concentration/Meditation, which isn't always the Humming and chanting type, people stereotype about... We aren't a bunch of Ms. Cleo's and stuff. I mean.. I know I'm not, I'm a guy.

Originally posted by mashup
Does it help if you're in the state of being so tired and about to fall asleep that you start thinking of completely random thoughts?

(As in help you have to have an OOBE)

Also, could the feeling when you wake up and feel as if you've just landed from a fall have something to do with it?

[edit on 21-12-2005 by mashup]

I don't know about the falling thing, because I've never gotten as far as to leave the body, that I'm aware of. So far I've had alot of Amnesia, and that doesn't usually happen to me, when it comes to dreams. So if I did Astral Project, I would have forgotten it, which sucks But the random thought thing, is your Subconscious taking control. Like when you dream, they SAY it's just processing things from the past, whether from the day, or the year. But if your not consciously aware, you can't control anything you do on the Astral plain... My Theory is, that our conscious and subconscious filter the astral plain while we're awake. I have no doubt that there are things that my Conscious self filters because it thinks it's unimportant. Like perephrial vision, and such. which would be very valuable. It's complicated, and I'm probably going to screw up my explination, but try to bare with me.

Your subconscious Captures everything, and your conscious filters it to things that are focused on most, right? So, wouldn't we be actually walking around on the astral plain, but our conscious filters that part out, since it's just not, legitimate to anything physical. I'm confusing myself. But hopfully somone out there is following. So There could be some Demon Monkey on the astral plain jumping around trying to pull our Astral hair out, and all our Conscious proscesses is maybe an Itch or tenseness. Even in the physical realm, it would probably take your conscious a while to tell your brain, Hey! There's a flying monkey, because it would take a while to understand it itself. It's used to processing simple things, like people, faces, houses, cars, gansters. When something different comes along. It's processing the same thing over and over again. Anything TOO different, it just filters out completely. So... I dunno... I'm thinking, maybe we have another consciousness that we don't reallyrecognize. Like a Memory consciousness, between Conscious and Subconscious. A collective conscious... Or would be just be using our Subconscious to look at the astral plain, and our subconscious is our REAL conscious. Maybe it's all just a big Circle? I'm so confuuuseeddd!!!!

i definatly see where you are coming from.....i think i saw a program or read it somewhere that explained our third eye and the reason behind why its hidden..something like the third eye is the eye that evolved to be now somewhere near the middle of our brain...it was the eye to see 4D..or like the astral world....and for some reason we evolved to have the eyes we have today...seeing the physical..and having extremely low use of the third eye...we gotta work to use it...i think the only reason we live in the physical..is because the eye evolved..or how id think of it...downgrade ?
so i do believe what your saying...that we are all in crossing dimensions
and we are not only in the physical but the astral plane at the same time....and the only link is...we cant see it until our third eye is trained to....
does that make any sense at all?~kiliker

If possible, you confused me even more... Yeah, like a downgrade, or an upgrade that is thought to be absolete..... Not absolute. I think that it's not really Evolving, just recognizing you have it. Takes meditation, and deep thought, and enlightenment to even realize that you might have something that is a Third Eye, but remember this is a term for it, it could be an eye, or it could be an awareness, or awakening. But while being a kid, you're still exploring the world you see, But once you're aware of it, that's when your start, learning how to use it. Then by the time you come up with a correct method to use it you have to practice using it, which I'm still trying, then by the time you get it to work, you have to exercise it to be more able. and by the time your comfortable with what you acomplished, you missed out on your life Completely! What we must to is grab a baby from some nursery and put him in a dark room until he/she's twenty, so they have nothing to see, unless they use their third eye... Then when we let them out, they will see the conscious world, and the sub conscious will clash, and.. >.> Conscious... Subconscious... thrid eye. Astral... Physical... -Twitch- Lucid... Experience... Sleeping... Floating... Orange... PENIS!! o.O Jumping from Political to Philisophical/astralnomical/psychological? Is hurting my head. So I'm going to meditate. Possibly go Lucid if I'm able to concentrate tonight. And I wasn't serious about the child snatching thing... Haha. G'night!