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conscious Oobe....It's Real!!

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posted on Jun, 15 2009 @ 09:53 PM
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Dear Yanker and Dear Picrat.
I really don't want to interrupt this tete-a-tete here, because I am finding it immensely intriguing.
However, I do have a question. I thought that OBE's and Lucid Dreaming were two different things. Am I mistaken about this?

Have you ever visited the web site where people do "rescues" of people who have passed away and are somehow stuck? They team together, such as after the Sri-Lanka tsunami, and go help all the bewildered, shocked souls. They call this lucid dreaming, and not OBE, and I have always wondered about that. They use the Monroe method.

Just curious. I've never been able to achieve either, although I have tried on many occasions.

I'm in absolute awe of this.




posted on Jun, 16 2009 @ 03:15 AM
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Originally posted by ladyinwaiting

I'm in absolute awe of this.


I will second that........its some amazing discourse.



posted on Jun, 16 2009 @ 10:01 AM
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RG: I believe you are able to answer my above question about the difference between OBE's and lucid dreaming.

I would like to have your thoughts on this as well.

Please&thankyou.

LIW



posted on Jun, 16 2009 @ 03:31 PM
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reply to post by ladyinwaiting
 


it really is not a tete to tete here amongst us as we all have our own way of doing things .i was taught the dreamers way first before i was taught how to unlock the power of the will within all people ,the will gives me the ability to shift from the physical self to the spiritual self quite fast, i can actually throw the spiritual self out of the body just by a conscience thought .the will when it moves feels as though there is a large octopus moving around inside of you it starts at about 3 inches below the navel.
but someone else here asked for some examples of what we can do ,so i obliged them . i`m not questioning the yanker i`m just saying that there are other ways to the same means and end .i also find it a little less tiring on the physical self in the dream time than doing the obe as others do it .but i will tell you that there are many more experiences that i could share with you.as to the grail i already have it so where do i go from here .Merlin and Arther`s court can still be reached and accessed to this day, this is something that i will share with you all shortly.
remember 3 things ,that time space and distance are non existent when you are in the dream time or the ob state ,at least not in the conceptual concepts that we were all taught. these 3 things do not consist of .time is not the clock,space is not the area of a room ,and distance is not the 3 inches of your finger nor is it the miles we all think we have to travel.
so how is that some of us are very proficient at what we do ,and yet our scientists all say it is not real ,bah humbug to them. that's right if they cant see it or cut it ,it is not real . so i guess we came up with 3 ideas that seem to bind us to our thoughts and their ideas. it is time to break the bounds that bind us to our physical self. would you care to fly.
think of a vine say 12 inches long cut square on the ends , pick it up and form a circle of it so that the two square cuts meet. what do you now hold other than a circle.example an alien did this with Wesley crusher of star trek,he asked him what it was as Wes thought that what he did was fold TIME,SPACE,DISTANCE,he was told not exactly .so what was it ?think of the end nearest you as your starting point and the farthest end as your destination,so how do we move from point A to B without TIME,SPACE or DISTANCE as we know them . the answer is that there is a door way right here at point A and there is one at point B so open the one in front of you and at the same time open the one at the other end of the corridor ,step through and enjoy.as the distance in between is so minute that it wont register on you ,it is as though they do not exist.yanker i believe that you may be able to shed a little more light here for them,as for me i myself don`t register the time or even the movement any longer i`m just there.
the first thing i was taught was to expect the unexpected and to accept it ,but i had to unlearn everything that i was taught was real.the first nightmare we awoke from what were we taught ,it was only a dream go back to sleep . well the fear and terror was real enough for me how about the rest of you.fear and terror no matter how much we say i`m not afraid you are lying to yourself as that initial fear is still imprinted on the mind and it does not want you to ever forget it so it buries it deep within yourself. the story of Jacobs ladder is about what obe of dreaming as back then they did not seem to have the same grasp or meaning to their words ,"quote " Jacobs words were and all of this knowledge came to me in my waken state ,so what was he doing as he seems to have been in contact with a higher knowledge or being, he called it god.
and some think we are wacked as we dare to step outside of the little boxes that others accept without question.yet we try to explore other ideas and concepts that are so lost on others as they have been beat down into submission ,so that they never learn or dare to as this is wrong and not real ,ask a scientist ,or priest and so on as they all say that we are evil as we dare to search for something that we all know exists and yet it seems to elude us .spirituality is not in a building nor will it be found there it is within us all and it is the once thing which no one can take away from it as it is ours to have ,hold and use at our whim and fancy ,it is known my many names -SPIRIT,SOUL ,DREAMERS BODY ,etherical body and so on.



posted on Jun, 16 2009 @ 03:52 PM
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reply to post by ladyinwaiting
 


ladyinwaiting this may be slightly off topic but then again it may not.may years ago i got hit by a drunk driver on my motorcycle by the time they got me put back together 34 hours later they lost me 3 times twice on the table and once before they got me on the table,all 3 times it was for over 15 minutes each time to this day i am still learning from all that i was shown or told those 3 times the knowledge that i came back with is quite mind boogling at times.but you stated that the rescuers of departed souls use dreaming to do this instead of obe,so i have a dilemma as i can be driving down the road and a ghost or lost soul will be standing there or wandering around some times these souls are from a different era -native americans still dressed in the traditional clothing from say 200 years or more .pioneers and so on.there are times that if i stop they will approach and ask why no one will speak to them,what have they done wrong and so on a lot of them don`t realize that they have crossed over ,and it is very hard to find the words to tell them the truth as it is hard to find the proper words that won`t upset them.YOURE DEAD does not cut it or anything along this line as they still believe that they are here as most died so fast and tragically [ACCIDENT] that it does not register that they are in spirit and no longer flesh . there are some corners where so many have died in auto accidents that i try to avoid them as there are just too many left there .



posted on Jun, 16 2009 @ 05:28 PM
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Originally posted by picrat
i can actually throw the spiritual self out of the body just by a conscience thought




Enyalius was this way also....
He was so far ahead of my limited abilities I was astounded, and sometimes had a hard time understanding what he was trying to convey.

I am SO GREATFUL that your willing to share some insight with us picrat.
For me it seems VERY 'Castanada' in its essence. Very like a page right from THE ART OF DREAMING....


For me the difference in Lucid dreaming & OOBE is...... if I try and put a NAME on it while it is taking place, about WHAT exactly it is taking place, the event itself changes.

I seem to need to just GO along with what I am dreaming and allow it to encompass me fully.
When I become 'Aware Of THE Dream' which is LUCID per say, the event melts away......
I find myself quite alone, or unaware of anyone else during an OOBE......and I associate it with a whole lot of brown murk.

I would LOVE to have others that I hung out & explore & fly around with.....

There are people in my dream/OOBE adventures that are repetitively there, and I do not know them in physical life in anyway......yet we are not physical pals with all kinds of common goals. Once in a great while I will meet in person someone I have known in my dreams for years and its the most amazing thing for me, yet they have no recall of me during their dreamscapes......
There are a couple of people on ATS that I find in my dreams and one of them even came to this thread many pages back to look for me to discuss what was taking place via OOBE........and we took that discussion away from this thread as it was more of a personal nature. Very odd though as I needed prompting to recall the 'dream event' ......but one I remembered I was amazed that I didnt remember it to begin with.
This entire overview has me thinking that even the smallest and more forgettable dreams are ALL taking place in a parallel universe, and we step in AND out of the different aspects of ourselves on all of these levels and this is what we experience as dreaming.


Here is a UTUBE vid of a compilation of an OOBE womans remembered travels......I would suggest you turn DOWN the sound as the music is not something I would recommend to anyone...
(sorry lady but SHEESH your music might cause someones ears to start bleeding)


[edit on 17-6-2009 by theRiverGoddess]



posted on Jun, 16 2009 @ 10:54 PM
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I have read these posts, out loud, actually. To grasp. Then I have walked around my house in the quiet eating a very large chocolate bar with almonds. To grasp. Then sat on the floor with my dogs. Now I am back at the computer thinking I am somehow spiritually thwarted. I say I'm open, but evidently not. But I will not visit my self-disapointment on you.

So your NDE has opened up this mediumship ability. Or it existed before your motorcycle accident. In any event you have it. George Anderson, is a very gifted medium. He had an event, "brain fever" or encaphalitis, which left him with his ability. He is semi-retired now, citing exhaustion. He cannot even go to dinner with a friend, without seeing spirits surrounding his dinner companion, and others in the restaurant. I have consulted him when I lost someone I loved very much, and was in huge pain. He found the person. (He's also very expensive).

But about these soul retrivals--they call them--I was on this site,with the same pain/same loss above. A woman named Ginny offered to go look for this person, through what I thought was lucid dreaming. She had a friend, who offered to "go with her". They then used me as a test, having found my loved one, and then would email me separately, with what they found, to see if it matched. They were always looking for "validation".

Well, it did match, for the most part. Few little discrepancies. And then when they talked, the one triggered the others memory, and somehow they were able to verify with one another that it happened, and that they were together. I won't go into all the details, but I believe them. This soul did not need a retrieval. She was fine.

But the other souls, like you see? They say they ask for a guide or higher soul to come and help them to where they need to be, and when they do so, a higher "light" or "guide" immediately comes to help the person. I was just wondering about the wandering souls you see, the native americans and such. If someone would come to help them, if you asked.

You have such a rich spiritual life. You both do. You have the secrets.
We Don't Die. (That's also the title of George Anderson's book). You are both (all three) highly evolved. I feel so small.

Love and Love. liw



posted on Jun, 16 2009 @ 11:08 PM
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reply to post by xxKrisxx
 


So...you can go to anyone, anywhere by thinking of them? Do they know you are there...? I have to try this. I have so many family members I miss and never get to see...it would be nice to visit in astral form, just for peace of mind. I will have to ask for help though... I'm no good at this stuff. Help please...



posted on Jun, 17 2009 @ 12:13 AM
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reply to post by ladyinwaiting
 


i actually had the gifts from day one and yet i never really knew much about them ,as when i was younger many things went on around me that i had no idea about .it never really bothered me until one night around 11 o`clock i was walking down the street around the corner from where i lived as i came up to the edge of the hedges there appeared a large grizzly bear, it walked out through an opening in the hedge .there was something about it that was very different ,it looked like and acted like a bear and yet it never came towards me it just stood there and watched me just as i was watching it something made me move towards it and yet i kept to the far side of the street. fear is a word i was getting to know quite well that night because all i could think was if you head my way i`m out of here ,and i don't care how thick a trail i would leave behind.but it never came my way it just let me pass and it walked back where it came from .this bear was more of a shadow than flesh and blood it made no sound at all ,nor did it make any sense at all as i live in southern Ontario and there has not been a grizzly seen here for well over 100 years .
this bear is one of my power animals it is also a guide and helper it will even protect if need be.
no one is inept at what we do all of us have these abilities within it is just that some of us are granted or given a very easy path to these things as all of us are equal to one another ,and i can`t explain why some of us are allowed so much . 2012 is the beginning of a new era of spirituality and people will start to flock away from religion and there is nothing that will stop it as those like myself left the church a long time ago because we could not fathom their idealization as what they said was right and proper all people seem to go against it.partly because the church has done what it was told never to do which was change the holy books this was all faith`s no matter what they proclaim ,they say that they can forgive our sins on Sunday and every one that was forgiven them goes out and does it all over again starting as soon as they leave the building.humanity is so much like children the grounding is over so what do we do next to get ourselves in trouble again- but- only if we get caught.
sometimes we try to hard to make it happen ,but my one teacher told me that it is much easier to wait for it to happen rather than to push it to happen as by pushing to hard we seem to push it farther away from us.other people need to be pushed it all depends on their make up -faith,outlook,personality and their beliefs . i was brought up in the bible iv`e read most other religions texts iv`e also studied yes Castaneda and his disciples for the lack of a better word ,remember Christ had 12 so did he.what i found was that a lot of what i was taught by the church took on a whole new twist as a lot of what Carlos was saying is in the bible it is just worded differently as are all other faith`s [language barrier`s]
example- dreamers -jacobs ladder
will- thy will will be done or my will is the correction
the raising of the dead -nde
everything we are taught puts us in a world which does not exist ,what we are doing is living the dream which was created for us by our teachers or everyone else who is here and yet it is not our dream it is their`s.
yanker i believe you said you went through nde, i remember going to a place where everything that i saw of touched was made of or emanated a light from within or else everything there is light,or made of light could you add your input on this for us.
when i was younger i sang in sunday school this [as i shed this coat of many colors ,see the light within ,let it shine ,let it shine,let it shine.]so if this is the spirit from within then i am all spirit just using this body until i learn to return to the light ,no i am the light ,and i will not follow those who have tried to keep me in the darkness of untruths and unknowing.i am a seeker of the truth,and i will guide those whom need help



posted on Jun, 17 2009 @ 12:26 AM
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a liitle heads up everyone.....tonights Coast2Coast show is on OOBE......from the perspective of Marilynn Hughes who made the pictures posted above.



posted on Jun, 17 2009 @ 12:31 AM
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reply to post by theRiverGoddess
 

whan you say that you see others in the dream time and yet they don`t recall you being there with them ,it is called dreaming together no 2 people see the same thing in the dream as our perspectives are different -even if they are side by side the connection between them is there but it is uniquely different for each of us.think of it as going to the movies to see a love story or tear jerker .most women will fall apart over it as it reaches them on a higher level then men as most men would rather be home watching the game and that is where their mind is throughout the movie as they could be watching something more important to them [a game]you as a woman will get what out of the movie where he gets nothing basically as he had better things to do but to keep the peace he went.
i have noticed that even when one of my teachers comes to speak to me they do not look exactly as they do here- there are slight differences the nose could be different or the eyes are not as shiny and so on unless you really interact with them here in the world you may not recognize them and vice versa . don`t be upset over it as they are a little behind you in their level of learning.
and we do all learn as that is the reason that we are all here welcome to school i`m still in it and i won`t quit



posted on Jun, 17 2009 @ 01:03 AM
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reply to post by theRiverGoddess
 


the objective lesson is not to put a label or name on it. the object is to take in everything that you are being shown -do not lock your gaze on anything specific just go with the flow , continually scan with your eyes what it is you see ,with time you will begin to notice that you are seeing so many things at once that you will begin to understand that your eyes see everything and your mind forgets nothing in these heightened states.if you lock onto something you lose it as you have found out .one lesson i learned concerning this came from cubs-for the cub he is small let him think and be still. in other words -watch -listen and learn -but -remember as much as you can- and write it down ,it may seem senseless now but the better that you get at this the more it will make sense to you later on. keep a journal if you have to i don`t write them down as my mind is like a trap anytime i need some information from an experience i close my eyes and relax within moments the whole experience comes flooding back with every sight and sound and clarity, all i need to start it is to remember a small section if only a picture and it begins.the beauty of this is that when i recall them i can control everything even the speed so i can focus on only one thing or everything on this level



posted on Jun, 19 2009 @ 03:24 PM
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This subject has been a huge interest of mine since I was about 13, i've come close but never have been able to pull it off. I don't have a problem with meditating as I do that a lot in MA's, but for some reason, meh I don't know, probably has something to do with the fact that my brain wont just shut the hell up.


Any tips would be super helpful, or you know I wouldn't mind be yanked out once just to see what it was like :p

( that is in complete honesty and seriousness I just tend to be a rambunctious)



posted on Jun, 22 2009 @ 07:23 PM
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Yanker here:

Most amazing posts. OOBE's and lucid dreaming?! I FEEL they are the same. They feel the same to me. It seems that the relationship between the soul and the mind/ego plays a role here. When I ask my soul is there a difference, I hear my soul laugh, my mind says "oh #." If I ask the mind/ego that question I get one answer, if I ask my soul, I get another. I hate that when it happens. lol Not really. One final point on this is that weather it be a OOBE or lucid dreaming or anything spiritual, is the role of the five senses. Our souls try and relate spiritual experiences to our mind/ego that is based in a physical experience. The soul doesn't have experiences the way the mind/ego experiences life with the use of the five senses. EVERYTHING that the mind/ego learns comes from some sort of experience through one or a combination of the five senses. But OOBE's, lucid dreaming anything spiritual comes from the heart, from out there and not through any of the five senses. The soul does not have the limitations of the five senses, but has the challenge of some how relating these experiences as real to a mind/ego that is a physically based reality tied to the five senses. The mind/ego only trusts what it learns if it comes through the five senses. Pircat that must be some uneasy alliance that your soul and mind/ego have come to.

I have been getting heck from one of my physical teachers and her guide. She was going on about me separating the soul from the mind/ego. I told her that isn't what I am trying to do. For a half an hour we went at it tooth and nail. Finally I asked her how she knows when it is her mind talking, her soul talking or her guide Tomoss talking. She said by the tone of "voice". They sound different inside. BINGO. That is what I want to raise my awareness to. To know the voice of the soul and the voice of the mind/ego. Still trying to learn the sound of another soul voice. Not sure I want that. Let any other voice that wants to talk go through my soul. And if my soul agrees well then maybe. The separation of the soul from the mind/ego is a natural process that takes place on physical death.


Yanker here.

I like to keep my posts short. It's a Illusions thing. "Keep it short Don, keep it short. More than two minutes and you lose your audience."

Itachimaru: Take all of that focused energy and move it from your mind to your heart and then balance them. Who knows what your experiences might be.

XXKrisXX: Are you so sure that the ones you miss aren't your spiritual family and not you immediate family? Know this Kris, that all that you miss you can know. The gift pain and sorrow gives us is that pain and sorrow show us the depth that one can feel love and joy. It's the same energy, just a matter of one's focus and awareness.

Coming next for Pircat, my NDE. Gulp.

I forgot to add that 6 mg of melatone under my tongue works great for Lucid Dreaming.


Rivergoddess . . .Pircat. Reading what you have written I want to ask. Why are all of your experiences related to this reality? I mean, that without a physical body everything is energy and energy patterns with a physical form to them. The soul doesn't experience browns and goddess, it experiences energy, doesn't it? Why limit OOBE's and lucid dreaming to just this dimension? How else can a soul ever escape this reality, this dimension if it can't experience other worlds? I feel that this is what awareness of the soul when 2012 comes is all about.


My NDE:

Try and share this with as little drama as I can. I have a very violent temper. This day I lost my temper. I was really angry at life for what life was doing to the people I loved. When I loose my temper I see white light. It's pure. I know I have the ability to do great harm as I am a big man. 6' 5" and 250. I really believe I could kill someone while in that state. I knew if I didn't calm down that is exactly what I would do. So I took every pill I could find an drank as much alcohol as I could at the same time. My then wife and friend found me on the bed, they told me later dead. My friend picked me up and took me to the ER. I must have came back then because I can remember them asking if I wanted to be tied down. And I told them no, I was ok. Then this wave hit me. Just before it did, I told them it was coming and to tie me down. I completely lost it, I was consumed by that anger energy. While on the table in the ER I heard the nurse over my right shoulder say "We've lost him, he's gone." I can still see the ER doctor jump up on the table with his fist doubled up beating on my chest. At that point the little voice inside said, "let go, everything will be all right." So I let go. A few moments later the nurse said, "You hit him to hard, you broke his sternum." Next thing I remember was being in x-ray and they were trying to take a picture of my chest. They loaded me on a stretcher and was taking me to ICU. The lights on the ceiling were flashing by over my head and the nurse at my head said, "We've lost him again." I leave my body and am in the corner of the room. I watch from there as they shocked my body two, three maybe four times. I left then and for me there was no tunnel but just like going into a dream. I went to this room that looked like a library that was bathed in gold white light. At the end of the room was God(?) sitting at what looked like a architectures drawing table reading a book. He looked down at me and said, "What are you doing here? When I want you I will come and get you. Now go back." Next thing I see is the doctor next to the bed looking at me.

No, I did not have a choice as to stay or go. I wanted to argue for staying but that was not an option I was not given a chance to plead my case. When God speaks you don't argue. LOL No, none of this hurt while it was happening, but the next morning it sure did.

The reasons I believe I wasn't allowed to die was that I didn't, and still don't know or have experienced unconditional love. Gods love. How would a soul without the five senses be able to recognized the energy of pure love? God's love? This is like two or three of the lessons wrapped up into one lesson. If I didn't have a body and the five sense how did I know this was a library or gold white light or a table or God? It's all energy and energy forms. Don't be attached to those energy forms they only exist in this reality.

Anytime I want I can find that energy of that room inside of me and go there. And yes I have felt the energy of that being (God?) around me from time to time asking if I am ready to go. As lately as within the last week.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
TRG speaking here......I recieved 4 different notes to post from The Yanker, but I put them ALL on this one post........I hope its not confusing that way....




[edit on 22-6-2009 by theRiverGoddess]



posted on Jun, 22 2009 @ 07:32 PM
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Wow, 5 years of an amazing thread!

Your initial excitement is what made me so itnerested in the thread. A little late but congratulations on getting some place lovely!



posted on Jun, 22 2009 @ 08:22 PM
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reply to post by theRiverGoddess
 


yanker there is one ting i left out of the nde ,that is that when it was time to leave there was a very soft and gentle hand which was placed on my left shoulder ,it came from behind.all i could think was lets go home ,as i started to leave i turned around the only thought that i had was ,someone is sleeping ,it never dawned on me that it was me . but the reassurance you were given we all are- if we are to be sent back here .
it is not universal love we seek as we have already experienced it ,that touch ,that voice that compassion and so on.love of a pet is a form of unconditional love as is the love of a child -question -so why were you sent back and what are you supposed to be to doing to help others . . i`m reading it now.
the question i was asked was "would you die for them" my answer was if need be -YES!
i will explain further on this a little later for all of you as i am not impressed at all with the so called HUMAN SPECIES or HUMANITY.



posted on Jun, 23 2009 @ 12:59 AM
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Yanker here.

Picrat, over my life time I have had the experience of being present (and all of what that means) when at least 8 people left the planet. Some just hours, some days and few weeks before they left. The one common denominator in each experience is that spirit comes to the dying person in a form that their conscious minds can accept. This helps the mind/ego let go of the soul. To separate.

I tried to be clear but I guess I wasn't. Those things, like a child's love, a puppy's love is all based in the five sense experience. A soul doesn't have those senses. From a soul perceptive, how does the experience of universal love happen? How does the soul know the energy, recognize the energy or relate to the energy of that universal love? 2012?

I keep asking this question. Why can't we experience what the soul is experiencing while having a body and have a conscious relationship through our awareness? Rather than from the mind/ego to the soul, but from the soul to the mind/ego. Let you in on a little secret. That's the way it is. I look back over my life at those important moments when I had to make a decision. When I made decisions from the mind, yuck. It has always seemed to work out for me better if I make those decision from my heart (soul). The soul always makes those decision, the soul just let's the mind/ego think it has.



posted on Jun, 23 2009 @ 06:40 AM
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reply to post by theRiverGoddess
 


Thank You, I will give that a try and see if it helps me out, although I think It might have to wait until my personal life calms down some, it's been a rather stressful couple months for the maru >.>



posted on Jun, 23 2009 @ 10:51 AM
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reply to post by theRiverGoddess
 


actually you were very clear the only thing is that there are other people here who are reading and listening and trying to learn from us all ,the best way to help them is to speak in such a way that they can relate to what we are saying here for them . for instance the puppy -why is it that they are so drawn to it even though they have never seen that particular one beforehand.yet when they look at them all as a litter there is only one that sticks out for them ,why is there such a feeling that comes from within ,the whole world seems to stop for them and there is that incredible feeling of togetherness that engulfs us ,like tentacles which draw us towards one another .at that first moment there is nothing there between us or the puppy and yet we all experience a tenderness and compassion for it and yet we know not why.remember that true love is not a physical thing as the highest form of love has no strings ,commitments ,attachments there is nothing asked granted or expected in return for it. this love is incredible in the fact that you feel like you are walking on air and that there is nothing else in the world which matters ,this love comes from within and it exudes itself as a light which comes from within ,with some it shines through their eyes or it cane be seen as a light surrounding them in their auras it is either yellow or all the way into gold but it is there.
mind/ego are the bane of us all ,as the mind is so much the skeptical overlord as it has been trained since day one that all we are taught is real and that everything else does not exist in it`s world and realm.in it`s perfect world it is the king and the spiritual side of ourselves are nothing more than puppets that need the be taught and led that it is supreme and nothing else is of importance.
remember the puppy the first time we take it home it does what within the house [it`s daily business which by the way is a very natural thing] and what do we do [WE TRAIN IT ]to do what we want it to do and when we want it to,and where we want it to do it`s business we even change it`s schedule to match our own ,remember we sleep all night and so are our pets and children trained to do so by whom[us].
ego/mind is a demon in it`s own right within us so we all need to defeat it ,so how do we do this . Jesus said that we had to feed the physical self so that the spiritual self would grow
physical self is it not our learning and wisdom is it not the ability to choose to seek another path to enlightenment .so to find enlightenment we need to follow a different path than what our ego/mind says is correct.but there are many paths there is the left path the right path ,the center path and all other areas in between them,and outside of them, we all stray from them and yet we all return to them as we need to experience all aspects of things and not just one point of view or way. there is also past present and future to be explored and we do have the way and means within us to be able to do it,it seems that the whole of humanity is searching for something in this time of madness and insanity they have words to describe it and yet they don`t seem to understand that ,that which they seek is within themselves each and everyone of us has it and they still need to have someone say i am leader and i will lead you to the promised land -the only problem is that those so called leaders are as lost as their flock of sheep as they don`t understand what it is that they need or are looking for and they always leave it to those who seem to be in the KNOW or so they say .as it seems that they have a direct line to the big man and they are his servants [god how i detest this line of mindless mind set.]
just a litle something to think about.



posted on Jun, 23 2009 @ 12:14 PM
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reply to post by theRiverGoddess
 


From what I can gather, someone from this list pulled you out?

Who are they, and if they're reading this, please do the same for me, your occult experience would be much appreciated...

These things are possible, but what I find extraordinary is the pleasure you derived from the experience, when I had my first it was like my soul was being torn apart...

Very good instruction here for anyone interested in this kind of experience:

www.lawbright.com...

But from what I've encountered on other threads I know some will be predisposed to acknowledging this as some mind control clap trap or other umbrella euphamism for esoteric initiation.

The only test is in your own experience!

And these things (usually) take time and genuine hard work. Don't expect miracles without these factors.



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