Healthcare overhaul seen boosting U.S. economy

Healthcare overhaul seen boosting U.S. economy

www.newsdaily.com

WASHINGTON, June 1, 2009 (Reuters) — Overhauling the U.S. healthcare system to contain soaring costs and expand medical coverage to the uninsured would help boost U.S. economic output, lower budget deficits and raise workers' incomes, a White House report said on Tuesday.
A report by the White House Council of Economic Advisers said healthcare spending, which currently accounts for about 18 percent of the country's economic output, could reach 34 percent by 2040 if the current rate of cost grow

(visit the link for the full news article)

Will this move health care overhaul actually help the economy?
One of the reasons I feel that it will is because it will relieve some of the burden placed on small businesses that pick up health care for their employees. Freeing up capital for business to expand and hire more employees.

I don't think it's to much for the American citizens to ask for the same health care that congressmen and Representatives receive; that is paid for by the taxpayers.

HMO and big pharma greed must end. Health should not be a for profit industry just to enrich stockholders and CEO's and actually provide poor coverage to those that do have private insurance.

74 million uninsured in this country is a travesty. When the elderly have to choose between eating or medication; something is wrong and needs to be repaired. I hope this new approach will do just that.

OK Right wingers dust off the Socialized medicine boogy man.
I always say "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" Healthcare in America is broken, fix it.

www.newsdaily.com
(visit the link for the full news article)



[edit on 2-6-2009 by whaaa]

As a person who sells health insurance, I have to wonder what will happen to the jobs of all those like me who do so. When the government takes over, will that qualify me for a government job? Or is this just another way to eliminate jobs?

Will the gov also pick up the cost of long term care for all?

[edit on 2-6-2009 by Jim Scott]

reply to post by whaaa


I have been on a local program that helps me with my medical care, it is available to only those from this county, and if you are not eligible for any other assistance ( medicaid, medicare,ect.) and you work but your job does not offer insurance, and you have a medical condition that requires constant care. I have been on this program a while and they help with all my prescriptions using drug assistance programs.

I called in my prescriptions today, and got a callback from the analyzers, they said the drug assistance programs are in jeapardy, and are redoing the accounts of everyone who has been getting assistance. We have to fill out a form for the IRS (?) and it will be examined and determined then whether or not I am eligilble to continue getting assistance. What does the IRS have to do with a prescription assistance program? Unless they owe the government money or something, I don't get it?!

Overhauling the U.S. healthcare system to contain soaring costs and expand medical coverage to the uninsured would help boost U.S. economic output, lower budget deficits and raise workers' incomes, a White House report said on Tuesday.

Emphasis mine.

Uhh, oh just going to use a little bit of logic here. If current government help on health care i.e. medicare, and medicaid, costs the government 18% of GDP how is converting the entire health care system in America to Universal Health Care going to cost the government less?

I'm sorry, but that is beyond dishonest.

Then there a few questions that people need to ask. The first one is how are we going to afford this, when Obama himself said we are broke. The second question is how is he going to lower the cost of health care itself with out nationalizing Big Pharma.

The 684 billion dollar in his budget was just a down payment, the projected cost of Universal Health Care is 1.2 trillion and that is a conservative estimate. Every country that has Universal Health Care suffers from budget overruns. It is also projected that it will take at minimum 10 years to be fully Universal.

Then 10's of thousands of people are going to lose their jobs. Which decreases tax revenue. Then you have the problem of less doctors. Talk about a nightmare scenario.

Sorry Obama, but we are broke, you blew it when you forced the stimulus down our throats. That was all the money you had to spend. Lets not even start to think about how much everything will cost if they try to print our way out of this.

Timmy the Tax Cheat just got laughed at by a bunch of Chinese Students and they want to see the Math on how they are going to take the current deficit from 12% GDP, where we are at now, to 3%. China just pretty much said we aren't financing anymore of your debt.

I still don't see how expanding the government is going to make anything cheaper. The government gets its money through taxes. Which means Businesses and Individuals will be taxed out of their buildings and homes.

When ever the government says something will be cheaper if the government takes it over you might as well know they are lying. For instance look at GM, or Amtrack, or the Post Office, or the Banks, etc.

Hopefully they do overhaul it. My mother is a diabetc and has heart diesease. She pays just over $1,000 a month, no joke. My parents have to work long and hard to keep paying the awful insurance bills. They got a projected premium chart, and in 2010, it is projected to be $1500/month. My parents cannot afford this.

reply to post by USamf


Chances are with a Universal Health Care your parents will be paying more than that. The Economic situation America is in right now we are going to see huge inflation, that is a tax, it lowers peoples buying power. Then to pay for all this taxes are going to go up on everything.

They are proposing a VAT at 25%, which means your parents will be paying what they pay on income tax and then when they buy goods for the house and whatnot everything will be 25% more.

Then you have higher taxes on energy and everything else. Believe me when their premiums go up to 18 grand a year that will be cheap compared to what Universal Health Care will cost. Then not only that but determining on the condition of your mother heart disease some bureaucrat in Washington will plug the data into a formula and determine if it is cost effective for your mother to keep receiving treatment for her disease.

I'm not trying to scare you but that is the way universal health care works its cost benefit ratio. It sucks I know, but its going to cost 1500 or more in taxes and she'll receive worse care.

What they need to do is tell the insurance agencies to shove it and convert them back to non-profit organizations. Health Insurance should not be a for profit industry.

A few reforms to the system we have now and things would be way cheaper.

One of the reasons I feel that it will is because it will relieve some of the burden placed on small businesses that pick up health care for their employees. Freeing up capital for business to expand and hire more employees.

I do agree with this point. I am still extremely leery of the program though. What irritates me more than anything is the timing of this. Obama was pushing for universal healthcare before the economy tanked. At the time, it was criticized for its cost. Now that the economy is in the toilet, it is somehow viewed as a boon to the economy?

The 1984 "newspeak" is really getting old. Then again, I guess we have always been at war with East Asia... or was it Eurasia???

Originally posted by Karlhungis

One of the reasons I feel that it will is because it will relieve some of the burden placed on small businesses that pick up health care for their employees. Freeing up capital for business to expand and hire more employees.

I do agree with this point.

I fail to see how Universal Health Care is going to relieve the burden on Small Businesses that do provide health insurance for their employee's. All that is going to happen is they are going to raise taxes on businesses to help pay for the program.

Instead of money going to the insurance agency it will be going to the government. Which also means that not only will people get higher taxes, but products are going to cost more because the businesses are going to pass the cost down to us.

The reality is that Universal Health Care is going to cost more than what insurance cost us now. The government doesn't make money, in fact they don't even know how to make money they would rather take over failed businesses.

I think people are forgetting that Universal Health Care is just one program, there is still SS, Welfare, then exploding deficits to contend with. It is all going to equate to higher taxes.

Originally posted by Hastobemoretolife

Originally posted by Karlhungis

One of the reasons I feel that it will is because it will relieve some of the burden placed on small businesses that pick up health care for their employees. Freeing up capital for business to expand and hire more employees.

I do agree with this point.

I fail to see how Universal Health Care is going to relieve the burden on Small Businesses that do provide health insurance for their employee's. All that is going to happen is they are going to raise taxes on businesses to help pay for the program.

Instead of money going to the insurance agency it will be going to the government. Which also means that not only will people get higher taxes, but products are going to cost more because the businesses are going to pass the cost down to us.

The reality is that Universal Health Care is going to cost more than what insurance cost us now. The government doesn't make money, in fact they don't even know how to make money they would rather take over failed businesses.

I think people are forgetting that Universal Health Care is just one program, there is still SS, Welfare, then exploding deficits to contend with. It is all going to equate to higher taxes.

I have a hard time believing that nationalized health care would cost us more. If you compare the US to other developed nations, our health care expenditures are the highest. By a long shot.

If insurance is a for-profit industry, it's obviously going to cost more than a government-run non-profit system.

And why don't we take a look at the gigantic budget deficits and be totally honest with ourselves about the reason for it?

It's our bloated and wasteful military industrial complex.

reply to post by milesp


The reason our health care expenditures are the highest is because cost is no object. All the places that have Universal Health Care goes by a cost benefit analysis. Which means if it is found out you have cancer and have 3 months to live they aren't going to treat you because it isn't cost effective.

Then you also have to take into account the higher tax rates in countries with Universal Health Care. Then you also have to take into account the government negotiates with Big Pharma for the price of medicine.

The reason why health care is expensive here is because if you go to a doctor worth his salt he will do what he can to make you better. Not only that but then the government will tell your doctor what he can and can't do. Not only that, but we are making up for Big Pharma's loses.

Take for example my health insurance it cost me 200 a month. Under Universal Health Care I'm going to be paying 2 or three times that in taxes a month.

Free Health care isn't Free. Then what do you think is going to happen when 80% of our paychecks are going to taxes?

You can thank Nixon for for-profit health insurance agencies. If you made that change back to not-for-profit and passed a law to where health insurance companies can't turn down procedures, then there would be nothing to complain about.

The numbers on the people without Health Insurance is greatly flawed. They don't take into account the people that don't want health care and then the illegal aliens.

After you factor those two out it is only 12 million that can't afford health insurance. Big difference between people that can't afford health insurance and people that don't want it.

This is the government we are talking about. The last time I checked it was only supposed to cost us 700 billion to "fix" the banks, then it was only a few billion to "fix" GM.

See where this is going? Why would you trust them on a report they did when they have an obvious agenda? Besides the taxes we pay now don't even cover what the government spends. Guess what is going to happen? We are going to get taxed out of house and home.

The fact is the Government is trying to fix a problem that they themselves created. It's literally like the fox eating the hens in the hens house then the fox convincing the farmer to put more hens in the hen house because he doesn't know what happened to them.

When is the last time the government said something was supposed to go a certain way and it went exactly like that? Not anytime that I can remember. Not only that, but do you want the same people that lied to get us into Iraq dictating your health care?

We will get taxed out the wazoo for Universal Health Care. Then the health care won't even be the quality that it is. All the doctors that I know have already said it Universal Health Care comes into effect they will all be looking for other jobs.

Its called unintended consequences. The Consequences are going to be higher taxes, worse health care.

Okay let me dissect this..
"would help boost U.S. economic output" Please show me the numbers on this please.

"lower budget deficits" Overhauling health care isnt going to help if Social Security and Medicare blow up. see here


"raise workers' incomes" What incomes? Most of the people who need health care dont have jobs anymore.

If I understand things correctly, Obama plans to partly finance his universal healthcare by taxing my pre tax health care payments.
I already spend Waayy too much on what is absolutely lousy coverage. Now I get to pay more so that others can have better?

Great, Thanks, Love it. Where's the hemlock?

It's all a pack of lies.

reply to post by badgerprints


Gotta spread the wealth around remember. Seems Obama thinks you dont need that extra dough.

Oh wait. You do need that dough to help boost the economy.

Obama Sir I call Chitz.

reply to post by Tentickles

Obama Sir I call Chitz.

You and I both. It just doesn't make any sense. I would love to see the numbers on this also. Chances are it wouldn't add up. There would be all kinds of voodoo math involved.

reply to post by Hastobemoretolife


Ok, in your reply to me, you stated a lot of things that I hadn't even brought up. So, I'll go through and respond to your claims one by one.

The reason our health care expenditures are the highest is because cost is no object. All the places that have Universal Health Care goes by a cost benefit analysis. Which means if it is found out you have cancer and have 3 months to live they aren't going to treat you because it isn't cost effective.

I don't buy this claim at all. That sounds more like the practices of private insurance companies. I'm challenging you to provide evidence of this.

Then you also have to take into account the higher tax rates in countries with Universal Health Care. Then you also have to take into account the government negotiates with Big Pharma for the price of medicine.

Ok, in order to take into account higher tax rates per in countries with national health care you would have to analyze the tax codes of literally every other industrialized nation. I don't have time for this, so I'm going to once again place the burden of proof on you since you're making the statement.

And if the government were to negotiate prices for drugs with big pharma, that would be a good thing because they would be negotiating to LOWER the cost.

The reason why health care is expensive here is because if you go to a doctor worth his salt he will do what he can to make you better. Not only that but then the government will tell your doctor what he can and can't do. Not only that, but we are making up for Big Pharma's loses.

I'm not really sure what to make of this paragraph. Yeah doctors are going to do what they can to make you better, but you're going to be stuck with the bill if you don't have insurance. NOT ONLY THAT, but even if you do have insurance, insurance companies will do whatever they can to wriggle out of having to cover the bills. And I don't really see big pharma taking any losses.

Take for example my health insurance it cost me 200 a month. Under Universal Health Care I'm going to be paying 2 or three times that in taxes a month. Free Health care isn't Free. Then what do you think is going to happen when 80% of our paychecks are going to taxes?

I understand that as a conservative you hate being taxed. Unfortunately that's part of living in a society that has a government. The question is what our tax dollars should be spent on. I believe healthcare is a reasonable thing for the government to spend money on.

What's really drained our coffers over the years is our maintenance of an empire. We have over 700 foreign military bases. So my argument is that we should cut 'defense' spending in half at least and use those savings to provide for the people of this country.

You can thank Nixon for for-profit health insurance agencies. If you made that change back to not-for-profit and passed a law to where health insurance companies can't turn down procedures, then there would be nothing to complain about.

Well that's not a bad idea at all. Sounds a lot like how a single-payer plan should work.

The numbers on the people without Health Insurance is greatly flawed. They don't take into account the people that don't want health care and then the illegal aliens. After you factor those two out it is only 12 million that can't afford health insurance. Big difference between people that can't afford health insurance and people that don't want it.

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt on those statistics, but there's a few points i'd like to make.

A lot of people don't want to pay for a health plan from an insurance companies because they have no faith in them. People know it's a scam. 50% of personal bankruptcies in America are from medical bills and most of those people had health insurance.

This is the government we are talking about. The last time I checked it was only supposed to cost us 700 billion to "fix" the banks, then it was only a few billion to "fix" GM.

See where this is going? Why would you trust them on a report they did when they have an obvious agenda? Besides the taxes we pay now don't even cover what the government spends. Guess what is going to happen? We are going to get taxed out of house and home.

The fact is the Government is trying to fix a problem that they themselves created. It's literally like the fox eating the hens in the hens house then the fox convincing the farmer to put more hens in the hen house because he doesn't know what happened to them.

When is the last time the government said something was supposed to go a certain way and it went exactly like that? Not anytime that I can remember. Not only that, but do you want the same people that lied to get us into Iraq dictating your health care?

I'm not saying the government has done a good job on the health care issue in this country. I'm with you on that one.

What I'm saying is that we need to drastically change our policies in order to fix the problem. Do I have faith that they will? No. I'm extremely skeptical of Obama's plan to 'work with the industry' to lower costs. That's like the farmer trying to reason with the fox to not eat so many chickens.

We will get taxed out the wazoo for Universal Health Care. Then the health care won't even be the quality that it is. All the doctors that I know have already said it Universal Health Care comes into effect they will all be looking for other jobs.

Its called unintended consequences. The Consequences are going to be higher taxes, worse health care.

Look at the stats. Industrialized nations with some form of universal health care spend less per capita and enjoy better services for everyone.

If you're rich in a country with nationalized heath care you can still shell out the extra bucks for whatever treatment you want. If you're poor in America, you're screwed.

Originally posted by Tentickles

Gotta spread the wealth around remember. Seems Obama thinks you dont need that extra dough.

Oh wait. You do need that dough to help boost the economy.

Obama Sir I call Chitz.

Yeah, we do need to spread the wealth around because the poor and middle class have been losing ground in this country for decades. The wealth has been moving to the top rung of the economic ladder and it's not because their 'working harder' than the rest of us.

But I wouldn't worry about it anyway. Obama has already shown what side of the class war he's on. With his mildly socialist rhetoric he's simply pandering to the American people who are clamoring for help.

[edit on 2-6-2009 by milesp]

The reason why health care is expensive here is because if you go to a doctor worth his salt he will do what he can to make you better

As long as the insurance covers it, that is.

I live in the UK.
25% of my salary goes on taxes.
If I'm sick I go to the doctor.
The NHS isn't perfect. It has it's flaws, but in this country, if you're sick, you go to the doctor, irregardless of your income.

It's time that America joined the rest of the world - Healthcare is a right, not a privilege.

Originally posted by Merigold
As long as the insurance covers it, that is.

I live in the UK.
25% of my salary goes on taxes.
If I'm sick I go to the doctor.
The NHS isn't perfect. It has it's flaws, but in this country, if you're sick, you go to the doctor, irregardless of your income.

It's time that America joined the rest of the world - Healthcare is a right, not a privilege.

the rest of the world seems to be trying to join America- judging by the immigration applications and illegal immigrant numbers!

The biggest problem I have with Nationalized health care is that it gives more incentive for people to sit on their butts! I know one of the things that gets me rolling out of bed every morning and off to a job I hate is that I need to provide my family with health insurance. If we keep taking away the need to go to work and place all the burden on those who want to work...guess what pretty soon no one is going to work....

I have often vowed to quit my job if Obama passes health care for every crack head in the USA. I'm not going to work my butt off to support a bunch of mouchers! I'll find another way to make money under the table.