China anger with North Korea echoes in the press

Just goes to show that China is all about making money these days and not about backing up communism or going against the west any chance it gets.

Also goes to show that the anti Chinese sentiment we seem to have developed in the west is either based on propaganda from out powers that be, fear of the unknown or jealousy.

Originally posted by Jazzyguy

What about your own assessment, Slayer? If china attacks north korea, how bad will it be for the chinese? Or do you think the chinese will suffer minimal casualties?

Pure speculation on my part...

The N Koreans have a huge reserve of manpower and material. Kim has done a pretty good job of brain washing the masses. His military has been on a standby alert status for years. N Korea has been under a constant threat of a fictitious invasion by the US and her Allies for decades. They are ready for a fight. What they don't have is a large reserve of fuel, food and the resiliency or robustness to reconstitute its war fighting abilities. In other words they are good for a fight but for how long?

The Chinese would get mauled pretty bad as they have in the past but would win. The China of today is much more modern than what we have seen in the past. They have divisions that are now on par with the west. Not as many as the west have though, but they counter that with massive amounts of troops. The misconception is that when China shows it's new modern weapon systems people get the impression that that's how their entire Army is equipped. That's a fallacy.

Example
Before WWII everybody pretty much believed Hitlers German army was 100% mechanized. The Allies believed the propaganda films that were released. The fact of the matter is that only about 1/4 were 100% mechanized while the rest still relied on the horse. The allies believing the propaganda films thought the entire German Army was mechanized- [Still to this day people believe that ]- So the allies developed their armies on mechanized forces. So in the end Hitlers propaganda films came back to haunt him.

China has very modern divisions but not as many as they would like people to believe the rest or majority are using slightly older equipment 70s and 80s vintage material. However as they become wealthier they will increase those fully modern divisions very quickly. So stay tuned on that one.

Kimmy's Korea is not all that brainwashed as he would like you to believe. Some will fight and die. While once the fighting starts the N Koreans who never bought his line of bull will either surrender or go AWOL. Their whole army would collapse from within soon after.

In the End China would crush them at a heavy price.

IMO
Edit: Spelling

[edit on 3-6-2009 by SLAYER69]

Reply to post by Jazzyguy

Um..... You realize that the PLA is the biggest in the world right?

Also without Chicom help Kim has no ability to supply his army beyond the first few days


Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com

Originally posted by sweatmonicaIdo
There was actually a massive military exercise conducted back in 2005. It was a joint China-Russia exercise and although the official line said otherwise, most analysts agreed it was training for a post-regime destablization scenario or even a post-war North Korea situation.

In short, it appears both China and Russia have plans to occupy North Korea should the regime/country fail.

China and and Russia could not afford for the North to become Democartic either. Potentially, we could see China march on Pyongyang rather than have the the US and SK to prevent and change to a democratic government.

reply to post by FredT


Exactly the North is pretty much lost without it's umbilical.

I still say once North and South unite the US and Her Allies would lose their excuse to be in Korea and would have to leave. Since China is considered a new Super power to counter the US. China in much of the world has changed world opinion of her. They no longer see her as a danger militarily but as a business partner.

It would be almost impossible for the US and the west to maintain bases there against a possible Chinese attack. It would fly in the face of global public opinion.




[edit on 3-6-2009 by SLAYER69]

Originally posted by Jazzyguy
I don't think china would be that dumb to corner the DPRK. If that's china's intention, it's a very very dumb move, and china will pay for it dearly. The DPRK has the 5th largest standing army in the world!

And where is China in there?

China has NOTHING to fear... they will CRUSH DPRK.

It has served it's purpose and is now out of control....

For some reason i don't think their testing anymore "were very aware on how to build a NUKE" But rather maybe their clering big underground tunnels to comense building underground cities that could hold up for a good 100-200 years maybe more until "2012" catastrophie or whatever is over and their only going to take a select few able to control and opress because they know they can reincarnate it's just for what they like doing they want long lives and hate to start over .... makeing some sense on how life is teaching us "video game cheats" " movies" " seed banks " storge facilities ect ect. how far does the rabbit hole really go? ReHaB

reply to post by rehab


OK?

I'm not exactly sure where you were going with that.
Maybe you could clarify it a bit more?

reply to post by SLAYER69


That is a very good assessment. You know what Slayer, you're actually the first ATS member that I come across who knows this kind of stuff extensively. You're a rare breed ATS member, Slayer, star for you.

reply to post by FredT

Yeah I know that. Yeah I know North Korea will lose, but they'll go with a bang, that's the problem.


reply to post by HunkaHunka

Yes, they will crush the DPRK. But what china should want is a smooth transition without alarming Japan. China doesn't want Japan to go nuclear.

In fact, I think that's the main reason why China expressed her anger so publicly.

reply to post by Jazzyguy


I wasn't kidding when I made the comment about North Korea's artillery being pointed in the wrong direction. I was only half kidding about it being rusted in place... I'm sure it's not actually *rusted,* but I seriously don't believe that they have the infrastructure, resources, or logistical capability to move all that equipment the whole way across their country and turn it around on China... at least not in time.

And their troops? They could probably move them, but I bet at least half would get "lost" in the movement and half of the remainder would surrender as soon as the fighting started.

Originally posted by mattifikation
reply to post by Jazzyguy

 

but I seriously don't believe that they have the infrastructure, resources, or logistical capability to move all that equipment the whole way across their country and turn it around on China... at least not in time.

You're right, if china launch a sudden attack, they won't have the time to move all of those artilleries.

Besides, those things might be rusted anyway.

reply to post by Jazzyguy


In the end I highly doubt china would attack maybe after NKorea collapses as mentioned above to prevent the quick unification. They would want a much larger say in how things develop after the North Collapses.

Here is an interesting development
China, US diplomats discuss NKorea crisis

BEIJING (AFP) — Top Chinese and US diplomats discussed the North Korean nuclear crisis during talks in Beijing Friday, a US official said, but he gave no clues on the outcome of the meetings.

US Deputy Secretary of State James Steinberg met Foreign Minister Yang Jiechi during a one-day stop in the Chinese capital following visits to Japan and Seoul.

"We, the United States, had wide-ranging talks on Sino-US relations and the security situation in Northeast Asia," Michael Hammer, spokesman for the US National Security Council, told reporters in Beijing.

He spoke on behalf of Steinberg, who was departing for the United States.

Hammer said the two sides had a "productive day of consultations," and "good meetings," but gave no further details.

[edit on 5-6-2009 by SLAYER69]

Originally posted by Jazzyguy



reply to post by HunkaHunka

 

Yes, they will crush the DPRK. But what china should want is a smooth transition without alarming Japan. China doesn't want Japan to go nuclear.

In fact, I think that's the main reason why China expressed her anger so publicly.

I'll give ya that... that makes a lot of sense actually...

reply to post by SLAYER69


I'm not too surprised by that, first thing China would want to do if they had to move in on NK is talk to the US for the potential of air support.

The US would be happy with NK gone all together.

China's logical move would not only be to get the support of the US in this matter but to also try and get some air support from the US.

China's ground capabilities and the US's air capabilities together would easily = no more NK as we know it today. Better sooner than wait for the possible threat of an actual nuclear war head on a rocket no matter how small the rocket it's in both area's interest to make sure it doesn't happen in NK anyway.

Was about to throw this scenario out there but looks like the govt. may have beaten me to it.

Chances are just talks for now but I could easily see this a possibility.

[edit on 5-6-2009 by Darthorious]

reply to post by Darthorious


I don't think any side is in a big hurry really for reunification. N Korea has ran their economy so far into the ground that would just be a disaster for the South.
There would have to be some sort of transitional period. How long?
But atleast there wont be Missiles flying as fast as the rhetoric.