Grandmother Tasered at Traffic Stop

Like the earlier reply, I'd like to view the dash cam footage myself (if there is one). Being in law enforcment myself for nearly ten years I also find it hard to believe that a cop couldn't control a combative 72 y.o. with just his hands. However, there are exceptions. We're supposed to be innocent until proven guilty (or so they say). Let's be patient here and see what emerges from this story if anyone would be interested in tracking the story and posting on this site.

Originally posted by Dredulous
My point is this cops are only vessels of the government rather it be the state or federal. To me the ones we should be getting ready to "tar and feather" is the heads of state who are mandating such action. The government at the top is who we need to focus on, for they are the ones dead set on this fascist or communist (it all equals the same) state. People better start waking up. Its time to hold the mayors, governors, and especially the president him self to account and show them that it is WE THE PEOPLE who run this country!

That last sentence says it ALL. For some reason, everybody has forgotten that WE are the bosses. I got into an argument with my county commissioner about our new sheriff. He was complaining that his department was not writing enough tickets. I told him that writing tickets was not his main job, that was to protect us from the criminals. A man was robbed and killed for $30 just a few days ago. The main thing that people around here are saying about it is that the cops were too busy out on the interstate writing tickets. That mans life was worth way more than the ticket money the police department made that day.

They STILL haven't released the footage:

The old lady said what the cop says was lies, that she was not swearing and was not combative.

They STILL haven't released the footage?

Who do you believe?

reply to post by Bombeni


You know, I'm inclined to go with the cop. I've lost count of the nasty tempered old shrews I've run into in my time...age does not automatically vouchsafe wisdom.

Not to say the police officer wasn't out of line, he was, by all accounts. Until we see the film, we'll not know for sure.

Originally posted by seagull
reply to post by Bombeni

 

You know, I'm inclined to go with the cop. I've lost count of the nasty tempered old shrews I've run into in my time...age does not automatically vouchsafe wisdom.

Not to say the police officer wasn't out of line, he was, by all accounts. Until we see the film, we'll not know for sure.

LOL! And you probably would have liked to taze a few.....the difference is you didn't. You wouldn't have, you know better, and you are just a normal citizen. Someone with years of training and experience, and many other skills and weapons at his disposal could surely have found a better way!

Suppose the video shows her screaming and running at him. He is a healthy man, trained in self-defense, submission holds, and weapons usage. He is trained in de-escalating situations, he is trained in situation management, and he is faced with a screaming grandmother. He has surely been faced with this before either on the job or at home, lol!

I am quite sure he could have subdued her without the tazer, gun, or nightstick. Let her run to you, grab the first swinging arm, twist and cuff. Keep it all in front of his car, so the cam can pick it up in case she whines later about abuse!

I can't understand why no-one has seen this footage.....it's been on Fox News most of the day.

It doesn't look like the lady was being a handfull at all.

I'll try and find it, it doesn't seem to be on their site.

CX.

Here you go folks.....

Fox News has obtained police dashboard video of the tasering of a 72 year old great grandmother in Travis County, TX.

The police claim that after Kathryn Winkfein was stopped for driving 15 miles over the speed limit in a construction zone, she disobeyed an order to sign the speeding ticker, used profane language, and became “violent.” They say the officer who taserer her and took her to be booked for resisting arrest was completely justified.

However, Winkfein says that’s a lie, and the video appears to back her up.

Article and video: New video shows officer shove, then taser 72-year-old great grandmother

Whilst it doesn't show the whole thing, and whilst she does seem to have a bit of a go at him, you are not telling me she was a threat!

That officer should be ashamed of himself.

CX.

[edit on 9/6/09 by CX]

As an added thought, i think in this situation i would have just let her go after taking her details, and followed it up back home.

A scuffle next to a busy highway is never a good thing. It's not great detaining a female on your own as a guy, and if it's an elderly person.....well theres a whole load of issues with that. They may not even get back up again!

This is not to say all elderly people are sweet and innocent. I've had a WWII bayonet pulled on me by an old guy during an ordinary house call lol.....we only went in to tell him his car had been broken into.....and there were a couple of sweet old ladies involved in stashing guns when i was working in N.Ireland.

As an ex copper myself, i say there are ways of bending the rules for certain people. The elderly should not get away with crimes, i'm not syaing that at all, but sometimes you can ease off how you deal with them IMO.

The way i always worked was the same as i've been brought up. Treat people as you would expect to be treated yourself.

CX.

reply to post by CX


Are you willing to run for some office in the US?!? J/K, but that is the perfect attitude for a "Peace" officer! Let cooler heads and common sense prevail! That is exactly why we have Judges and Juries. All the laws need a human aspect of intervention, because no two situations are equivalent!

reply to post by CX


You're absolutely right, he should be ashamed of himself !

He had no reason at all to taser that woman, he had no reason to push her like that either she could have been easily subdued. He needs to face some strong disciplinary actions. IMO he should not be in law enforcement at all, he obviously has no idea how to diffuse a situation, and it makes me wonder how quick he would be to pull out his gun if up against a young male.

reply to post by getreadyalready


It really does depend upon what the film shows...

As to watching it on fox, or cnn, for that matter; I can't remember the last time I watched either one of them.

I generally get my news from the National Enquirer...better reporting .

Seriously though, none of the all news channels are on my must see tv list.

Originally posted by getreadyalready

Originally posted by seagull
reply to post by Bombeni

 

You know, I'm inclined to go with the cop. I've lost count of the nasty tempered old shrews I've run into in my time...age does not automatically vouchsafe wisdom.

Not to say the police officer wasn't out of line, he was, by all accounts. Until we see the film, we'll not know for sure.

LOL! And you probably would have liked to taze a few.....the difference is you didn't. You wouldn't have, you know better, and you are just a normal citizen. Someone with years of training and experience, and many other skills and weapons at his disposal could surely have found a better way!

Suppose the video shows her screaming and running at him. He is a healthy man, trained in self-defense, submission holds, and weapons usage. He is trained in de-escalating situations, he is trained in situation management, and he is faced with a screaming grandmother. He has surely been faced with this before either on the job or at home, lol!

I am quite sure he could have subdued her without the tazer, gun, or nightstick. Let her run to you, grab the first swinging arm, twist and cuff. Keep it all in front of his car, so the cam can pick it up in case she whines later about abuse!

You make a very good point. Looking back at my child-rearing days, if I had tazed my kids everytime they got mouthy or were "combative" they would be brain-dead today. And I know that 10 and 12 year old boys are as much a handful as any 72 year old grandma.

Shame shame on that cop, period. Tazers were surely intended for safely bringing down dangerous persons in the field of duty, NOT this crap. I posted a video awhile back of a thug cop who tazered an 18 year old fast food cashier because he thought she had given him the wrong change back. Camera footage proved she gave the correct change. He wasn't even fired.

IMO Pig is a form of flattery for them.

Originally posted by getreadyalready
[
Are you willing to run for some office in the US?!? J/K, but that is the perfect attitude for a "Peace" officer! Let cooler heads and common sense prevail!

Lol thanks for the offer, but not in my lifetime. Love the people over there, it's the people i'd have to work with in office that i think i'd have a problem with.

Is it really that hard though? I know there are laws for everything nowadays, and the police are there to enforce those laws, but there are ways and means to make everyones life a little easier.

We had it in the military police. We used to often give the soldiers a lift back to their barracks if they were worse for wear, it saved them a long walk, saved them getting into trouble during that walk...and the subsequent dealings with us for an offence....plus it saved us a ton of paperwork.

Drunkeness was an offence officially, but if you lifted every soldier who was drunk off duty, you'd need a C130 for a squad car!

On top of that, it helped relations between us and the regiments of the army (sometimes lol).

Then some idiot said we could only put a soldier in our car if they were under arrest.

I just can't understand some people, and whilst there are a lot of decent officers out there still, i fear they are becoming few and far between.

Far too many on a power trip.

CX.

Originally posted by Tiloke

Here is our policy, no exceptions.It doesn't matter if the ticket is for speeding and reckless endangerment or for littering.

By signing the citation, you are not admitting guilt. By signing, you are saying you will appear in court on the date indicated on the citation to defend yourself against the charge. In a sense, the signature works as an O.R. (Own Recognescence) bond, if you refuse to sign, you will go immediately to jail. You are then presenting yourself in leiu of presenting a signature.

Please post the source of your quote.

Originally posted by craig732

Originally posted by Tiloke

Here is our policy, no exceptions.It doesn't matter if the ticket is for speeding and reckless endangerment or for littering.

By signing the citation, you are not admitting guilt. By signing, you are saying you will appear in court on the date indicated on the citation to defend yourself against the charge. In a sense, the signature works as an O.R. (Own Recognescence) bond, if you refuse to sign, you will go immediately to jail. You are then presenting yourself in leiu of presenting a signature.

Please post the source of your quote.

I live in Oklahoma and I know I have always had to sign for traffic tickets, I thought that was just standard operating procedure everywhere. The ticket says you can pay the fine amount, tells you where to send it, or, you can come to court and fight it. No one ever fights them though. You know the old song lyrics, I fought the law and the law won? Well those words are still true, even when the law is in the wrong.

reply to post by CX

Then some idiot said we could only put a soldier in our car if they were under arrest.

Some B.S. "liability" regulation, in case that person got hurt climbing in or out of the car! Frivolous lawsuits, insurance liability, fraudulent worker's comp, and greedy corporations have ruined the U.S.!

I may run for some office soon. Possibly U S Representative from N. Florida. It is just really hard to mount a campaign and keep your day job! You would think the populace would want a common working man to represent them, but they inevitably vote for some slick, rich, puppet!

Look at Ron Paul, Dennis Kucinich, and the others with terrific messages, but no face time on MSM!

I have many friends that are cops. From a Chief of Police and FBI agent to bicycle beat cops. They are typically very good people, and they use their common sense, but with so many cops on the street, carrying several types of weapons, riding a roller coaster from fear to boredom, it is no wonder these things happen.

In my current location (right this second) I am within the jurisdiction of FDLE, Capitol Police, FHP, City Cops, County Sheriffs, FSU Cops, and FAMU Cops. That is 7 different local departments with jurisdiction over this spot. In addition we have FBI, DEA, Homeland Security, and Coast Guard that operate in the area!

Edit: Forgot about Forestry Division (armed and common in the area) and Department of Ag.

What does that make the total...at least 13 armed organizations trying to control a small piece of land? And we still have rapes, burglaries, drugs, and murders. Sounds more like Central Columbia or Afghanistan when you put it that way!

[edit on 9-6-2009 by getreadyalready]

Well the showed the UNEDITED video on the local news here (as compared to the EDITED video that only shows the end).

It was pretty darn funny! The lady keeps yelling at the cop 'I AM A 72 YEAR OLD WOMAN, I DON'T HAVE TOO!"

They are arguing behind the car, he pushes her and tells her to get further in on the shoulder (because there is traffic whizzing buy). He tells her FIVE TIMES to move back or he will taser her.

She keeps saying "You going to taser a 72 year old woman????"

The last thing she says is "I DARE YOU!". Yes, she dared the cop to taser her, and guess what, he did!

LOL.

The clips of this video online leave ALL of that out and only show the ending. Typical media spin. She was truly and quite literally asking for it, plus I would bet if he had tried to handcuff her and she struggled she would have sued him for a broken/sprained wrist or some such thing.


[edit on 9-6-2009 by Sonya610]

She may be 72, but she was a handful, and was not cooperating. She defied the officer and told him at one point she was getting back in her car - I suppose to leave.

I don't think tasering was called for, maybe a couple pops with his nightstick, a roundhouse kick to the head, or just use his size, slam her up against the car or on the ground, and then handcuff her.

She wasn't completely innocent. She was stubborn.

Not a way to respond to a cop who's likely been catching crap all day long from everyone he met.

Just appears it was her turn.

I saw the edited video. I didn't see anything that should have caused her to be tased. Yes she didn't cooperate, but I didn't see the part that may have caused her to act the way she did. The cop was a lot larger than her and could have handled her easily. I don't see the reason that they are so pushy just because she refused to sign a ticket. They had all the information they needed. I just don't think they need to use those on older people because so many have heart problems and could kill them.

O.K. I watched the edited video also. I must admit that she was showing her "BUTT". It does appear that the officer had no problem controlling her with physical force. When he shoves her back she almost falls to the ground. I don't believe that the Taser was neccessary. If she needed to go to jail, snatch her up and put her in handcuff's. Yhea she may have complained about being bruised or something. But still the whole incident would have been on camera, and the media wouldn't be up in arms about the Tasing. Some agencies instruct their officers to use the Taser so they don't have to go hands on and possibly get injured themselves. But it shouldn't always be the first answer for a subject that is not complying with commands. Throughout the whole country the Taser is being frowned upon because of poor media coverage, and poor judgement when it came to deploying it. The Taser is a very effective tool, and although some may find it hard to believe, it can't kill the average person (children, unhealthy people excluded). There have been countless incidents where it has saved lives. Check them out on Google.