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Who is America?

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posted on Jun, 1 2009 @ 09:55 PM
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Originally posted by LDragonFire
reply to post by NWOhereNOW
 

This is very much a hate America thread!!!

We are just people, like everyone else in the world. We do alot of whats right and we have done wrong. We are not perfect, please don't hold us to such a high standard.

I have complained about my country before and Ill do it again, but I would rather live here than anywhere else, especially the middle East.


I think this is only a hate America thread if you think it is. I'm just pointing out negative events in America's history and asking WHO is America?

Is America what it DOES or what it WANTS TO BE?




posted on Jun, 1 2009 @ 09:58 PM
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reply to post by NWOhereNOW
 


I like the way this guy resorts to calling you a racist, when he loses the argument.



posted on Jun, 1 2009 @ 10:01 PM
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Originally posted by truth_seeker3
haha, I had a good chuckle out of that. Yes, I do get your analogy now, I sorta see that. But if you WOULD be interested...

Slavery existed in African culture before 1482 when a explorer from Portugal 'discovered' the kingdoms on Benin and the various tribal rules of Mandingo and Ghana. It has existed for centuries. When Africans were enslaved, it was a way to raise your standard in society.

I'm not trying to come off as a racist, because I'm not. Slavery was wrong and always will be wrong.

But you do have to remember, at the time, owning slaves was perfectly acceptable, it seemed quite moral then to people.

But things changed, remember everyone thought the world was flat?


Hey, I'm not so sure if the world is round! It might only look that way because we can only perceive a 3-Dimensional universe. Have you ever seen the "flatlander" analogy?

As far as being perfectly acceptable: Nearly everything that is done is deemed perfectly acceptable.

It was perfectly acceptable to drop the bomb on Japan.

It was perfectly acceptable to enslave blacks.

It was perfectly acceptable to slaughter the Indians.

Nearly everything I listed was perfectly acceptable to the doers of the action.

Was it perfectly acceptable to Japan to get Nuked?

Was it perfectly acceptable to Blacks to become slaves?

Was it perfectly acceptable to Indians to have their land stolen and slaugtered?

See... they weren't really, perfectly acceptable.



posted on Jun, 1 2009 @ 10:03 PM
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Originally posted by cavrac
reply to post by NWOhereNOW
 


I like the way this guy resorts to calling you a racist, when he loses the argument.


How do you reply to people who imply that enslaving blacks is okay, as long as other people are doing it?



posted on Jun, 1 2009 @ 10:06 PM
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reply to post by cavrac
 


Ya, good point. Well, I'd like to point out here for you who do not understand the history of slavery in America. It is quite apperent that the OP does NOT understand how it came to be.

The Spanish had a sole monopoly on slavery until the 17th/18th century. During that time, Spanish ships brought enslaved Africans to work on sugar plantations in the Caribbean. Then eventually, enslaved Africans were brought to the Chesapeake colony in Virgina.

The OP claims that America enslaved its slaves. That is a extremely false statement. American ships were not running up and down the Ivory and Gold coast grabbing africans. These were Spanish, Portuguese, dutch, and then in the end british ships captivating the slave trade and the mercantilism/triangle trade in the Atlantic.

Again, the OP is wrong, slavery was rooted in America before English speakers even had a strong root on the continent.



posted on Jun, 1 2009 @ 10:10 PM
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Okay, here goes my I LOVE America rant!!!!

The thing that makes America greater than any nation in the world is one simple thing: Americans.

There is no country on Earth that is as desirable to immigrate to more than the USA. People from all over the world come here legally and illegally to have a better life, to have the opportunity to do better than their parents and to give their kids a chance to prosper.

The one thing that unites all Americans is that they are American. You could have come from the USSR, Korea, China, any European country, South America, the middle east, and when you get here, you become American.

You cannot say that about any other country on Earth. Immigrate to France and you will not become French, immigrate to Germany and you will not become a German, immigrate to China and you will not become Chinese. You kids will in all likelihood not be considered any of the above. Perhaps three generations in your grand children or great grand children might be accepted as the nationality of that country. Meanwhile you and your family will be treated as second class citizens.

Here, you get sworn in as a citizen, and you ARE American. I can guarantee that if you find two Americans in a bar anywhere in the world who are complete strangers, they will bond and protect each other from any foreign threat.

Personal story: My parents escaped from the former USSR in the early 1970's. They ended up in Italy on their way here. When they went to the United States Embassy to apply for asylum, they walked in past two US Marines guarding the front doors. At that moment, they understood that those two men who they have never met before would give their lives to protect them and their family. They never felt safer in their lives before.

You can hate America all you want. Sure this Country has had people in the government that did bad things, and sure there were pages in this Country's history that were dark, but show me a country that never made a mistake or a country that has never committed some kind of atrocity and I will give you a star.

Should the US have had slave? Of course not, but every European nation was engaged in the slave trade and every country in the world has had some form of slavery in its history.

Should the US have dropped atom bombs on Japan? Probably. As some of the other posters have stated, an invasion would have probably caused more blood shed on both sides. Don't forget, we didn't have laser guided bombs and cruise missiles back then.

In closing, God bless the USA, and all the haters know where they can go.



posted on Jun, 1 2009 @ 10:12 PM
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reply to post by finemanm
 


Thank You!

AMEN! I wish we had more people like you around here!



posted on Jun, 1 2009 @ 10:14 PM
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reply to post by truth_seeker3
 


Exactly, a slave is "enslaved" when they lose their freedom, most African slaves were hunted and captured by other Africans, and then eventually sold to slavers whos sold to America.



posted on Jun, 1 2009 @ 10:23 PM
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Thank you.
We have been called "bad" before. Many have said We do things...
that are not correct to do.

I don"t believe in such talk as this.

We are nice country ... with happy feelings... all of the time !

First, a joke.

What do you get when you cross an owl with a bungee cord?

- My ass. Nyah, ha ha ! Ha ha !

[edit on 1-6-2009 by cavrac]



posted on Jun, 1 2009 @ 10:38 PM
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I'm the only one that swallows my food. America is the only one who enslaved it's blacks.


Africans had enslaved their own people!!

Slavery is a very old business, before the Arabs arrived, the Africans had enslaved their own people. When African farmers needed more laborers, they bought slaves, that way they increased production, at a reduced cost.

Even though the Arab enslaving was much longer (by six centuries) and was directed slavery to both blacks and WHITES!
The Africans, were also enslaved, first by their own people, then by the Arabs, then by the Europeans.
European triangular trade is definitely more well- known, because it is better documented and more recent.

This is basic history and although I do not condone what happened, America is not the only country who enslaved people. And we had enough sense to correct the problem.

And yes I still beleive this is a "I hate America thread".



posted on Jun, 1 2009 @ 11:00 PM
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reply to post by NWOhereNOW
 


Wow. You are one angry fella, hu?

Yet your baseless negative rants do nothing but improve your COWARDICE.

You're all over the place.

Have no idea what you're talking about. No offense.


I truly hope you're not a citizen of this country.
A disgrace. :shk:
If you don't like it here, GTFO!!
Move to Africa, join a tribe.
No law.....nice.....laid back, and you don't have to bitch about paying your taxes either.







[edit on 1-6-2009 by Ben Niceknowinya]



posted on Jun, 1 2009 @ 11:04 PM
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Originally posted by truth_seeker3
reply to post by cavrac
 


Ya, good point. Well, I'd like to point out here for you who do not understand the history of slavery in America. It is quite apperent that the OP does NOT understand how it came to be.

The Spanish had a sole monopoly on slavery until the 17th/18th century. During that time, Spanish ships brought enslaved Africans to work on sugar plantations in the Caribbean. Then eventually, enslaved Africans were brought to the Chesapeake colony in Virgina.

The OP claims that America enslaved its slaves. That is a extremely false statement. American ships were not running up and down the Ivory and Gold coast grabbing africans. These were Spanish, Portuguese, dutch, and then in the end british ships captivating the slave trade and the mercantilism/triangle trade in the Atlantic.

Again, the OP is wrong, slavery was rooted in America before English speakers even had a strong root on the continent.


I honestly don't understand your compulsion to "prove I'm wrong" from my simple statements. I never said anything about the origins of slavery. I did a 12 page report on the origins of slavery for college years ago and got a 97, so I know exactly how slavery came about. Then again, you seem to be implying that Americans never had slaves all together so you must be on some conspiracy rant that I don't understand.

I'm talking about the ACTION OF SLAVERY. They enslaved their blacks on the very basis that they did not free them to their natural state. It doesn't matter where they came from.

DID AMERICA NOT HAVE SLAVES?

The actions of a slave are done while enslaved!

If someone brings a slave to your front door, and you accept it and put it to work, YOU ARE ENSLAVING THEM NOT THE PERSON WHO BROUGHT THEM TO YOU.

The person who brought him to you just KIDNAPPED HIM. It doesn't matter that he may or may not be destined to be enslaved. Most of them died on the way over.

Their natural state is FREE. You are keeping them from reaching their state of freedom, by continuing to enslave them.

You have ENSLAVED. America ENSLAVED BLACKS!

You are obviously having your own argument here. You also seem to be implying that America is not responsible for utilizing slaves.

The only idea that I'm trying to get through is that America is responsible for its use of slaves. It is responsible for keeping slaves. America is the only country responsible for its use of slavery.

You seem to be suggesting otherwise - that it was forced upon them to use slaves, as if they had no choice.

I think you have some real reading comprehension skills man because you are replying completely off the mark.



posted on Jun, 1 2009 @ 11:04 PM
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I'm just pointing out negative events in America's history and asking WHO is America?



Thats a very broad question to have so many negative angles towards.. how is that not a negative "I hate america" POV?



posted on Jun, 1 2009 @ 11:06 PM
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Originally posted by cavrac
reply to post by truth_seeker3
 


Exactly, a slave is "enslaved" when they lose their freedom, most African slaves were hunted and captured by other Africans, and then eventually sold to slavers whos sold to America.



That's like saying a murder victim is dead when they get kidnapped!

America enslaved runaway slaves that were caught.

How's that?!?

HOWS THAT FOR ENSLAVING BLACKS?

God you guys are dense.



posted on Jun, 1 2009 @ 11:12 PM
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Originally posted by Darth Logan
I'm the only one that swallows my food. America is the only one who enslaved it's blacks.


Africans had enslaved their own people!!

Slavery is a very old business, before the Arabs arrived, the Africans had enslaved their own people. When African farmers needed more laborers, they bought slaves, that way they increased production, at a reduced cost.

Even though the Arab enslaving was much longer (by six centuries) and was directed slavery to both blacks and WHITES!
The Africans, were also enslaved, first by their own people, then by the Arabs, then by the Europeans.
European triangular trade is definitely more well- known, because it is better documented and more recent.

This is basic history and although I do not condone what happened, America is not the only country who enslaved people. And we had enough sense to correct the problem.

And yes I still beleive this is a "I hate America thread".

For the 10th time, I NEVER said America is the only country to enslave people.

Okay, how can I explain this...

If I kill someone in my living room I AM THE ONE THAT KILLED THEM.

If I enslave someone in my backyard I AM THE ONE THAT ENSLAVED THEM.

If I accept a slave as delivery, I AM ENSLAVING THEM.

As such, from any point after that, my slave is considered ENSLAVED.

Is this an English board, or do you guys speak another language? This is third grade grammar guys.



posted on Jun, 1 2009 @ 11:14 PM
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Originally posted by Aesthetic


I'm just pointing out negative events in America's history and asking WHO is America?



Thats a very broad question to have so many negative angles towards.. how is that not a negative "I hate america" POV?

I don't think it is. If the list was all positive, would you consider it an "I love America thread?"

If so, you are not being objective or thinking for yourself, but letting the subject matter presented do the thinking for you.



posted on Jun, 1 2009 @ 11:29 PM
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You said in your first post

"Is America the one that enslaved the blacks?"

you make it sound like America is the first and only country to do this

and slavery is wrong no matter who it is done to

Guess what
your are a slave and you dont even know it, so am I

[edit on 1-6-2009 by cavrac]



posted on Jun, 1 2009 @ 11:29 PM
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Is this an English board, or do you guys speak another language? This is third grade grammar guys.

I can speak French, German, Italian or English but I can't speak stupid. I was trying to understand your logic.
And so far the only thing I gather here is you have some kind of hate built up against America.



posted on Jun, 1 2009 @ 11:34 PM
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Who is America?


Americans are the most generous people in the world-

pressmediawire.com...

Americans are the most diverse people in the world

www.usa.org...

www.npr.org...

www.census.gov...

www.asiannation.org...

en.wikipedia.org...

Try being "diverse" in other countries

www.raceandhistory.com...

www.associatedcontent.com...

www.asiasentinel.com...

www.raceandhistory.com...

www.newsweek.com...

ipsnews.net...

www.afrol.com...

www.violencestudy.org...

I could go on, but perhaps you get the point...

America has been the most innovative nation since it developed past its nascent stage:

www.scribd.com...

There's so much more, but I'm going to bed. I'll close with a few thoughts.

All people are the same- we're all flawed characters that will make mistakes. We're all mortal creatures that someday will perish. A group of really smart and brave people years ago revolted against a tyrannical government. So yeah, we kind of put them on a pedestal. Our country is far from perfect, but we've got this idea that despite our difficulties, despite our times, that we, as a people, will get better. That our kids will live better than we did. Maybe that's fanciful thinking, but that's what we do. We think we can do anything, and we try to do so. We are not our government- government is in the way.
Lately, things haven't been what we'd like. The monopoly of power in a maturing, sophisticated government machine, can be difficult to keep in check. Maybe we'll fail someday to be the greatest nation on earth. At least we had the balls to try.



posted on Jun, 1 2009 @ 11:37 PM
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reply to post by NWOhereNOW
 


I don't recall which member on ATS stated it but I agree 100% with the phrase and they beat me to it...America is a plutocratic oligarchy! That's all this country is in this day and age as far as I'm concerned. I don't see your post as being anti-American in any way, we still have the right to sit on our asses and type away whatever is on our minds. When that right goes away, I'm moving elsewhere (just a matter of time the way I see it).



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