Dinosaurs- Are They Alive Today

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posted on Jun, 1 2009 @ 01:47 PM
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It’s a simple question: Are Dinosaurs still alive?

This thread, will delve deeply into the possibility that they still exist. By providing evidence, with the use of Newspapers, eye witnesses and videos.

So with further ado here we go:


Dinosaurs Alive



Eyewitness Sightings:


From China there were claims that more than 1,000 people had seen a dinosaur-like monster in two sightings around Sayram Lake in Xinjiang.


Lai Kuan and Jian Qun, ‘Dinosaurs: Alive and Well and Living in Northwest China?’, China Today, Vol. XLII No. 2, February 1993, p. 59.


Scotland came the latest Loch Ness monster sighting: Mrs Edna MacInnes reported on June 24 that she had seen a 15-metre-long creature with a neck like a giraffe in Loch Ness.


The Weekend Australian, 26–27 June 1993, p. 15; Radio National (Australia) 8 am news report, 25 June 1993.


Professor P. LeBlond of the University of British Columbia told a meeting of zoologists about the many sightings of ‘Caddy’—short for Cadborosaurus—around the British Columbia coast and as far south as Oregon. The remains of a three-metre juvenile ‘Caddy’ have actually been found in the stomach of a whale.


‘Is Caddy a mammal?’ Science Frontiers, May–June 1993, p. 2; Penny Park, ‘Beast from the Deep Puzzles Zoologists’, New Scientist, 23 January 1993, p. 16.


Russian scientists were startled to find remains of dwarf mammoths on Wrangel Island, off the Siberian coast, which they said were living only 3,700 years ago.


‘Reassessing the marvellous mammoths’, The Age (Melbourne), 29 March 1993.


British explorer Colonel John Blashford-Snell returned from an isolated Nepalese valley in March with photos of living creatures which looked something like mammoths or extinct stegodons.


‘The elephant that time forgot’, The Mail on Sunday, 23 May 1993.
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Many, many archaologists have found bones with DNA in them. But heres what is very interesting: According to an Oxford Scientist: molecular biologist Bryan Sykes,

'the rate at which DNA breaks down in the laboratory is such that no DNA would remain intact much beyond 10,000 years.’

Bryan Sykes, Nature, Vol.352, 1 August 1991, p. 381. For more information, see Carl Wieland, ‘DNA dating: Fascinating evidence that the fossils are young’, Creation magazine, Vol. 14 No. 3, June–August 1992, p. 43.

Ancient Eye Witnesses

Zhou Dynasty (1122 B.C. - 220 B.C.) or possibly from the Han Dynasty (206 B.C. -220 A.D.).



Fong, Wen ed., The Great Bronze Age of China, Metropolitan Museum of Art, 1980, p. 285.

As you can see their is tremendous detail in the Art. The curavture in the neck, the plate on top of the head, the long tail, and the mouth. All the dimensions of the body seem to add together. Is this proof of a dinosaur? If not, how were the ancients able to craft such detailed figures of animals that they had never seen?
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Shang dynasty (B.C. 1766-1122)



Is this a sculpture of a dinosaur? Notice the ridges on the back and the scales protroding from the skin. The horn on the head, the tail. When does coincidence stop being coincidence?

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Mesopotamian cylinder seal dated at 3300 BC. Moortgart, Anton, The Art of Ancient Mesopotamia, 1969, plate 292.



Notice the long necks wrapping around eachother. The body, and how the neck leaves the body. This is more than just some meer chance. This is evidence.

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Roman mosaic from about 200 AD that depicts two long-necked sea dragons



Notice again the long neck and again the bodies and neck. These sea creatures represent Dinosaurs.

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"Elders of the Kuku Yalanji aboriginal tribe of Far North Queensland, Australia, relate stories of Yarru (or Yarrba), a creature which used to inhabit rain forest water holes. The painting [left] depicts a creature with features remarkably similar to a plesiosaur. It even shows an outline of the gastro-intestinal tract, indicating that these animals had been hunted and butchered." (CEN Technical Journal, Vol.12, No. 3, 1998, p. 345.)



This is a very striking art work. Look at how it represents a dinosaur and it seems to show that human and dinosaur contact was made.

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The Ta Prohm an ancient Cambodian Buddhist temple show:



This carving on the temple depicts, with much accuracy, the stegosaur.

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Pictures courtesy of

Thunderbirds, The Piasa, and other carnivoris birds

The Thunder bird:


It is described as a large bird, capable of creating storms and thundering while it flies. Clouds are pulled together by its wingbeats, the sound of thunder made by its wings clapping, sheet lightning the light flashing from its eyes when it blinks, and individual lightning bolts made by the glowing snakes that it carries around with it. In masks, it is depicted as many-colored, with two curling horns, LINKYand, often, teeth within its beak.


I would imagine that a full grown pterodactyl could make the noises described.


A Pterodactyl had a wingspan of anywhere between a few inches up to over 40 feet long. Pterodactyls are believed to have flown long distances using large wings and they had above average eyesight to help them catch their prey. Paleontologist classify Pterodactyls as flying reptiles and not dinosaurs.

LINK

Wings that big, could definately cause thunder sounds and probably felt like a strom when it attacked. The Pterodactyl was a CARNIVORE. That is very interesting, since many legends say that the thunderbird would eat Indians.

The Piasa:


The original Piasa Bird was a petroglyph (a prehistoric carving, usually pictorial, gouged into a rock surface). According to legend, in the years long before the Europeans arrived in the Meeting of the Great Rivers area, the Piasa (pronounced Pie-a-saw) was a bird-like creature of such great size that it could easily carry off a full grown deer in its talons. But what concerned the Illini tribes of the region was that the creature preferred human flesh. The native people attempted for years to destroy the creature but were unsuccessful and watched with terror as this monster destroyed whole villages.


LINK

Now the Piasa does not resemble a pterodactyl, it represents more of a dragon like creature. But then again, no one has said that the pterodactyl could not grow hair, even though it is a reptile. I personally think that the Piasa was just a story, but the story was based on a pterodactyl.




posted on Jun, 1 2009 @ 01:48 PM
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Killer Birds continued:

In the 13th century, the adventurous explorer Marco Polo detailed in his Travels much that he was told about the Rukh of Madagascar, also been said to be able to carry off an elephant. According to young Polo (Marco Polo's Travel; III, 36):


The Madagascarians related to him that "at a certain season of the year...the Rukh makes its appearance from the south. Persons who have seen this bird assert that when the wings are spread, they span fifty feet." [Approximately the same size as Native American accounts in The Legend of the Giant Bird]. Polo tells how he heard of a mighty feather presented to the Grand Khan of China purportedly taken from a Rukh and measuring ninety "spans" long. In classic literature a "span" is usually described as being the distance between the tip of the thumb and the tip of the little finger in a spread out hand, roughly nine inches. If the translation "ninety" is taken to be accurate that would make the feather over sixty-seven feet in length, which is not likely. It is probably a mistranslation with the actual measure being NINE spans. That would make the feather somewhere just over six feet long, similar in length to the one described as coming from the American southwest in The Boy and the Giant Feather



In the 17th century renowned British traveler and florist John Tradescant obtained what he claimed was the claw of the Rukh, "a bird capable to trusse an elephant." The claw was an outstanding feature in Tradescant's museum which later became the famous Ashmolean Museum at Oxford.



The Quillayute Tribe in the Pacific northwest of the United States speak of a very large bird, with feathers as long as a canoe paddle. When he flaps his wings, he makes thunder and the great winds. When he opens and shuts his eyes, he makes lightning. In stormy weather, he flies through the skies, flapping his wings and opening and closing his eyes.


LINK

As you have read, there are many stories of killer birds. And they all seem to have the same basic story. Is this evidence of dinosaurs in modern days"

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The Loc Ness Monster (nessie)

ow not everything is real, but you can decipher for yourself what are real and what are not.

and a very interesting Nessie website: Everything Nessie and very interesting:

The Legend of Nessie




The Loch Ness Monster is a creature believed to inhabit Loch Ness in the Scottish Highlands. It is similar to other supposed lake monsters in Scotland and elsewhere, though its description varies from one account to the next. Popular interest and belief in the animal has fluctuated since it was brought to the world's attention in 1933. Evidence of its existence is largely anecdotal, with minimal and much disputed photographic material and sonar readings. The scientific community regards the Loch Ness Monster as a modern-day myth, and explains sightings as a mix of hoaxes and wishful thinking. Despite this, it remains one of the most famous examples of cryptozoology. The legendary monster has been affectionately referred to by the diminutive Nessie


LINK

There is no doubt that people are definately seeing something.

In fact this article is very interesting: Originally published in Reports of the National Center for Science Education , May/June 1997, Vol. 17, No. 3, pp. 16-28


A decayed carcass accidentally netted by a Japanese trawler near New Zealand in 1977 has often been claimed by creationists and others to be a likely plesiosaur or prehistoric "sea-monster." Plesiosaurs were a group of long-necked, predatory marine reptiles with four paddle-like limbs, thought to have gone extinct with the dinosaurs about 65 million years ago. However, several lines of evidence, including lab results from tissue samples taken from the carcass before it was discarded, strongly point to the specimen being a shark, and most likely a basking shark. This should not be surprising, since basking sharks are known to decompose into "pseudoplesiosaur" forms, and their carcasses have been mistaken for "sea-monsters" many times in the past. Unfortunately, the results of scientific studies on the carcass data received less media attention than the early sensational reports, allowing widespread misconceptions about this case to continue circulating. Therefore, a thorough review of its history and the pertinent evidence is warranted.




LINK

More information about Champ and others

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Some videos:





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New scientific evidence suggests that dinosaur bones from the Ojo Alamo Sandstone in the San Juan Basin, USA, date from after the extinction, and that dinosaurs may have survived in a remote area of what is now New Mexico and Colorado for up to half a million years. This controversial new research, published today in the journal Palaeontologia Electronica, is based on detailed chemical investigations of the dinosaur bones, and evidence for the age of the rocks in which they are found.


LINK

Evidence must be weighed. How did the ancients who are thought to have never seen a dinosaur and never knew what dinosaurs were, be able to depict, WITH AMAZING ACCURACY, dinosaurs of today? Why are dragons mentioned all over the world, yet many nations, England, China (yes I know they knew eachother, but they are just examples), and many others, had never heard of eachothers nations before hand and never had any contact, yet come up with the same type of animals, something is not right here...

When does coincidence stop being that and become a possibility? Do dinosaurs still exist, are they among us.....

The question is simple.

Do Dinosaurs exist?



posted on Jun, 1 2009 @ 01:52 PM
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Interesting. Although it seems, like us, they must have found an abundance of dinosaur bones. Maybe even more then us considering they live in the Middle East.

Are they still around?

If you believe the theory of evolution then the answer would be yes. Those dinosaurs would have evolved to different species. The atmosphere changed, and without their hostility of the old atmosphere the dinosaurs changed as well.

If you believe in creationism, then you don't believe they existed at all.



posted on Jun, 1 2009 @ 02:12 PM
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reply to post by TheMythLives
 


Interesting, I have always felt some may have survived. LOL, when I was little I used to want to go on an expedition to an island (after seeing Jurassic Park) and try and find dinosaurs. I do think there are some good cases. Good thread.



posted on Jun, 1 2009 @ 02:13 PM
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reply to post by jkrog08
 


Yes, Jurassic Park. That movie was awesome, and who knows with the advances that we have today I wouldn't be surprised if we made a dinosaur zoo, with the cloned DNA of a dinosaur.



posted on Jun, 1 2009 @ 02:20 PM
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Just glancing through real quick, the Tah Prohm stegosaur has been discussed here heavily, with full support of it either being a stego, or being a normal reptile, with the "plates" being a artistic design on the border, similar to other carvings. It isn't very representative of a stegosaur also, at least from the skeleton.

Keep in mind, in Asia to this day people still dig up dinosaur bones, and treat them as dragon bones. I used to have a article that dealt with the possibility of how the ancients treated fossils, and their was a program on History a while ago that dealt with the idea as having inspired many legends of mythological creatures.

Why are you including the pictures of the known shark?



posted on Jun, 1 2009 @ 02:24 PM
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Thanks for the great ancient artwork showing knowledge of dinos. I've never seen those before or even knew they existed.

I'm going to discount the decomposed shark, but other than that, I like this thread.

Star for you.



posted on Jun, 1 2009 @ 02:27 PM
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Very Interesting post, S&F, I know there are some places that are very remote but I think we would have seen dinosaurs if they were still around. Sea creatures, that a different story, I def. believe they exists and that they could be dino's. Always been interested in this subject, esp Nessie



posted on Jun, 1 2009 @ 02:29 PM
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Jurassic Park would be a ot harder to do in real life that it's presented in the film, and according to them they just filled in the missing gaps with frog DNA.

Keep in mind, animals like the Thylacine, the Mammoth, or the various other extinct species, that have yet to be successfully cloned, or are still only in the hypothetical state.

It's a difficult proccess, even though these animals only relatively recently went extinct, it's difficult to obtain complete DNA for them, and to successfully find a way to produce them. As well as getting a good example of the specimen, something that'd be difficult to do with social animals.



posted on Jun, 1 2009 @ 02:29 PM
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I like your compilation, because it's not just another Mkoele-mbembe thread. Personally, I'm sure some prehistoric aquatic creatures are still roaming around, too.
S+F



posted on Jun, 1 2009 @ 02:31 PM
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reply to post by RuneSpider
 


Yea, I know. But it sure is a hell of a lot of fun to think about. I mean I think that would personally awesome to see, not get close enough to one, but to see a real life dinosaur from the past. I also wonder if it would look anything like the representation we made of them....



posted on Jun, 1 2009 @ 02:48 PM
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reply to post by TheMythLives
 


We're probably pretty close. Ever heard of Dino mummies? Preserved bodies of dinosaurs, that reveal a lot of their musculature, which helps us understand how they would have moved, stood, and extrapolate on how they'd interact.
It's been found that the noses were a bit fleshier than we thought, and their leg muscles on certain dinosaurs were much more pronounced than we thought, since they were based on bone scaring.



posted on Jun, 1 2009 @ 03:09 PM
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I thought this entry of Dragons was interesting:




Around 600 B.C., during the reign of King Nebuchadnezzar, a Babylonian artist fashioned bas reliefs on bricks used in the enormous archway of the Ishtar Gate and the high walls of the approach road. The bas reliefs consist of three animals, and each row of bricks displays numerous images of one of them. The rows alternate, some showing lions, others rimis (as the Babylonians called them), and still others sirrushes (dragons).

The dragon, of course, was a purely imaginary animal. Or was it?

Willy Ley has described the sirrush, which he considered a "zoological puzzle of fantastic dimensions," thus:
... a slender body covered with scales, a long slender scaly tail, and a long slim scaly neck bearing a serpent's head. Although the mouth is closed, a long forked tongue protrudes. There are flaps of skin attached to the back of the head, which is adorned (and armed) with a straight horn....


I will mention later that Dragon stories range from the West, to the East, to the North and to the South. Yet many of these nations did not have any communication or knowledge that they existed, yet how do these cultures come up with the same type of animal? The story continues:



The Apocrypha's Book of Bel and the Dragon relates a curious story: that in the temple of Bel, Lord of the World, Nebuchadnezzar's favored god, the priests kept a "great dragon or serpent, which they of Babylon worshipped." The king challenged the Hebrew prophet Daniel, who had been going about sneering about nonliving gods of brass, to dispute this god, who "liveth, and eateth and drinketh; you canst not say that he is no living god; therefore worship him." To remove himself from this quandary, Daniel poisoned the animal.

The fortieth chapter of Job in the Old Testament, though written anywhere from 100 to 1300 years earlier than the Ishtar Gate's construction, may refer to the sirrush by another name:

Behold now Behemoth ... he eateth grass as an ox. Know now his strength is in his loins, and his force is in the navel of his belly. He moveth his tail like a cedar: the sinews of his stones are wrapped together. His bones are as strong pieces of brass, his bones are like bars of iron.... He lieth under the shady trees, in the cover of the reed, and fens. The shady trees cover him with their shadow; the willows of the brook compass him about.... His nose pierceth through snares.

The behemoth's identity has long puzzled biblical scholars, who have not doubted that Job was writing of a real animal, even if no satisfactory candidate among known animals seems to exist. Mackal offers this interpretation: "The behemoth's tail is compared to a cedar, which suggests a sauropod. This identification is reinforced by other factors. Not only the behemoth's physical nature, but also its habits and food preferences are compatible with a sauropod's. Both live in swampy areas with trees, reeds and fins (a jungle swamp)."


So what did they think the creature could have been? a real life animal, the most logical thing. Yet the animal described could not have possibly been alive during the time of Man and could not have been made up from a fossil.



The discoverer of the Ishtar Gate, German archaeologist Robert Koldeway, gave serious thought to the possibility that the sirrush may have been an actual animal. Unlike other fantastic beasts in Babylonian art, he noted, images of the sirrush remained unchanged over centuries. What struck him about these depictions was the "uniformity of [the sirrush's] physiological conceptions."

The sirrush, he said, was more like a saurian than any other animal. Such creatures did not coexist with human beings, he wrote, and the Babylonians, who were not paleontologists, could not have reconstructed a saurian from fossil remains; yet the Old Testament states explicitly that the sirrush was real. All this considered, he was reduced to speculating that the Babylonian priests kept "some reptile" in a dark temple and led the unsuspecting to believe it was a living sirrush.


Now we have evidence to back up these claims from an archeologist who stated that they could not have possibly been forged by the Babylonians because they were not paleontologists. Yet, to make his claim more reasonable he states: that it was just some animal or just 'some reptile' and led the 'unsuspecting to believe it was a living sirrush'.

Now a little question comes up. If you tell a person that a sirrush (dragon) is in a dark temple or a holy temple and must be worshipped. They are not going to believe you, however, if you show them they will believe you. Basic psychology. Even if you show one person, chances are the majority will not believe it, unless they see it. Like Bigfoot believers vs. Skeptics of Bigfoot.



The Babylonians are known to have penetrated equatorial Africa, home of the mokele-mbembe, and Ley, Bemard Heuvelmans, and Mackal have all suggested that in the course of their travels they heard of such creatures, perhaps sighted them, or even brought a specimen home with them. This is not an unreasonable hypothesis, if we assume that mokele-mbembe exists.

On the other hand, some modern scholars, for example Adrienne Mayor, dispute the assumption that the ancients did not know of, or had no interest in, prehistoric animals. Mayor has written, "Reliable ancient sources relate that, when fossils were discovered in antiquity, they were transported with great care, identified, preserved, and sometimes traded. Reconstructed models or the remains of 'unknown' species were displayed in Greece and Rome." She adds that ancient writings seem to indicate that "some representations and descriptions of crypto-animals in antiquity were based on reconstructions from skeletons of living or extinct animals." If such was the case with the sirrush, however, the fossilized remains would have had to be brought in from elsewhere. Dinosaur fossils did not exist in Mesopotamia.


While we all know that ancient fossils were transported to Rome and Greece, this was not a wide spread out practice. There is equal evidence to show that past fossils were not handled with great care, but molded into weapons and just thrown away or to the side. And a great question remains how did the fossil get to Mesopotamia since none were there.

I will dig deeper into dragons very soon. I promise.



posted on Jun, 1 2009 @ 03:13 PM
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reply to post by TheMythLives
 


I'll tell you a lot of those facts you brought up are hard to dispute and could likely point to some type of dinosaur still living. It appears also that sightings or encounters have lessened throughout the years (1700-present) and I think that could indicate the final collapse of the majority of surviving prehistoric animals. I don't remember the term but it is like Galapagos Island, a totally isolated place that has survived evolution and ELEs. Maybe Raven or Myth can help me out on that one!

But it seems to me it is highly possible that multiple places 'immune' from outside forces could exist on land and sea in isolated spots. Again good thread with a lot of good information and facts.


Here is a video about 'Birdzilla' to further your flying dinosaur hypothesis.



posted on Jun, 1 2009 @ 03:18 PM
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Crocodiles were around during the time of the dinosaurs, and I guess could be classified as one.
Outlasting the Dinosaurs

-E-



posted on Jun, 1 2009 @ 03:23 PM
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reply to post by jkrog08
 


Awesome, video. Need to go and find more myself. But there is a definate decline in Modern Nations mentioning Dinosaurs from the 1700's to now, however, in the UnModern? (Is that a word), anyway, in the unmodern world like the (mostly solitude) tribes of Africa, Amazons and others like them. They still talk about creatures that they shoud KNOW nothing about. Like the Plesiosaurs, they still create pottery with the dinosaurs image on it. How do these undeveloped people know about it when they shouldn't? One things comes to mind:

The Animal Is Alive.



posted on Jun, 1 2009 @ 04:14 PM
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reply to post by MysterE
 


Crocs are part of Archosaur, as are birds.
en.wikipedia.org...



Now a little question comes up. If you tell a person that a sirrush (dragon) is in a dark temple or a holy temple and must be worshipped. They are not going to believe you, however, if you show them they will believe you. Basic psychology. Even if you show one person, chances are the majority will not believe it, unless they see it. Like Bigfoot believers vs. Skeptics of Bigfoot


The ancient world is full of stories of griffins, sea serpents, gods, unicorns, ect.



posted on Jun, 1 2009 @ 04:15 PM
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reply to post by RuneSpider
 


Thats what makes it interesting..lol

The modern world is filled with Bigfoot, Sea Monsters, the bermuda Triangle, gods.

Are we much different?



posted on Jun, 1 2009 @ 04:56 PM
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Man who believes that he had seen a pterodactyl. In 1944, in (Papua) New Guinea, Duane Hodgkinson and his friend saw a "pterodactyl" with a wingspan similar to a Piper Tri-Pacer (29 feet).




Expert trying to identify mysterious bird flying around S. Texas
More sightings of a huge flying creature, originally reported by KENS, have prompted an investigation to determine if it is a monster or myth.





[edit on Jun 1st 2009 by TheMythLives]



posted on Jun, 1 2009 @ 05:12 PM
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reply to post by TheMythLives
 


Good thread! Starred and flagged!

This is what I love ATS for, all the research that so many do. It brings up much to think about.

How many loose ends are there in history? I had always thought that dinosaurs died away so many thousands of years ago, but it seems maybe not?





 
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