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UN: Israeli buffer zone eats up 30 percent of Gaza's arable land

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posted on Jun, 2 2009 @ 02:24 PM
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Originally posted by dragonridr
Your right there is casses of malnutrition but this is caused mostly because there diet isnt as varied as it need to be and they are rationed by hammas.
they receive international aid which prevent starvation.


No, it's effectively rationed by Israel who constantly prevent aid of all kinds entering the strip.





posted on Jun, 2 2009 @ 02:34 PM
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Originally posted by Goathief

Originally posted by dragonridr
Your right there is casses of malnutrition but this is caused mostly because there diet isnt as varied as it need to be and they are rationed by hammas.
they receive international aid which prevent starvation.


No, it's effectively rationed by Israel who constantly prevent aid of all kinds entering the strip.



Now your lying flat out lying the food is distributed though hamas. The UN sends shipments though Isreal but by no means is this the only way the UN can get food there its the easiest thats all. The only restiction on food the Israelis have placed is on pastas because they know this can be used to make a bomb.

How ever if the need arises you do realize humanitarian aid can be put on ships and taken right to them dont you.Do you have a map i suggest you look that huge body of water next to them is called the Mediterranean!The only reason its not done this way is because the ports they have cant handle large cargo ships they never bothered to build the facilities. So it makes it easier to bring it in though Israel. Hopefully hamas will wise up and spend some of this aid package there trying to get to build a port. I think this would go along way to regional stability in the fact the UN could remove Israel from the picture.



posted on Jun, 2 2009 @ 02:42 PM
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reply to post by dragonridr
 


What would be the point in building a port when Israel regularly sets up naval blockades? Do you honestly think that is a realistic option when many Gazans don't even have running water? Your ignorance is astounding (either that or you are intentionally spreading lies).




posted on Jun, 2 2009 @ 03:28 PM
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Originally posted by Goathief
reply to post by dragonridr
 


What would be the point in building a port when Israel regularly sets up naval blockades? Do you honestly think that is a realistic option when many Gazans don't even have running water? Your ignorance is astounding (either that or you are intentionally spreading lies).



Wow the problem gets worse they dont have running water do you have anything to support this theory of yours? And Israel wouldn't even consider stopping a UN transport because most likely be from the United States,France or the UK and trust me this is not the group Israel would want to mess with and the UN would be so far up Israel rear they wouldn't be able to sneeze without a UN inspector present.


You like to mislead people i personally don't care which side of the argument you choose but i do care when people lie about the facts. This issue is far more complicated then apparently you understand. People run off emotions and emotions cloud judgments. To say there isn't other options is silly at best. There is always ways around everything case in point the soviets tried to starve out Berlin wouldn't allow shipment in at all what happened an air lift quite an amazing feat actually.I don't know how strong you think Israel is but news flash they don't control the world they are not the supreme government.And honestly most governments have problems with the way they conduct themselves lately.

But the bottom line is this is not all there fault there is a lot more blame to go around.This problem was created by Israel,Jordan,Lebanon,Egypt,Iran,Saudi Arabia,the UN, Britain,America,Russia,and of course religion.There just mountains of blame that can be placed but in the end the only ones that can fix this is the Palestinians lord knows every time someone else tries it makes it worse.



posted on Jun, 2 2009 @ 04:14 PM
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reply to post by ModernAcademia
 


No one can be that blindly stupid!

Hey! Get Russia to give back those Japanese Islands!

Get Russia to give back the part of Finland they took!

Get the French to give back Normandy to Britain!

Where is the Holy Roman Empire? Where in the hell is Prussia?

Don't you GET IT?

You lose a war, you may lose property.

Britain, France, Spain, Portugal, the US, Holland, Italy, and damn near anyone you can think of won land in war.

Then lost land in war and exchanges.

Same thing in the West Bank and Gaza!

God! Simple minds, suggesting academia.



posted on Jun, 2 2009 @ 04:15 PM
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reply to post by Goathief
 


Well, you need to take up malnutrition with Hamas.

They spend all that money on weapons and weapons systems.

The Israelis don't do that to Gazans, Hamas does.



posted on Jun, 2 2009 @ 04:19 PM
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reply to post by dragonridr
 


Why is every aid organisation putting the whole blame of this crisis on the blockade by Israel. Either there is a blockade by Israel that is causing dire problems for Gaza or the WHO and the rest are lying.

www.medindia.net...



posted on Jun, 2 2009 @ 04:58 PM
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Originally posted by sueloujo
reply to post by dragonridr
 


Why is every aid organisation putting the whole blame of this crisis on the blockade by Israel. Either there is a blockade by Israel that is causing dire problems for Gaza or the WHO and the rest are lying.

www.medindia.net...


You want to know why there not receiving supplies suggest you read this!

UN's Ban demands Hamas release seized Gaza aid
www.alarabiya.net...

UNRWA suspends aid to Gaza after Hamas again seizes supplies

Oh and case you were wondering what your article is about the Israelis have cut back on the amount of fuel they are willing to sell because Hamas has been stealing that too and using it to run the trucks that took off with all the food! Quite frankly i dont believe any country can force another country to sell them gas. And with the problems they have with Hamas cant say i blame them really. See you dont know how this aid thing works do you?

Starts like this UN offers to buy gasoline to be given to the Palestinians the Israelis take the money and deliver the fuel. But at the moment Isreal is going no i dont think we want to do that right now. So there not willing to accept payment from the UN until they are willing to part with there fuel! Right now they are limiting there fuel sales to the minimum making Hamas choose between them and there people.

Now the problem this causes is two fold 1st supplies are harder to distribute that is when hamas isnt stealing it.
And second medical supplies in up stuck in warehouses instead of going to hospitals were its needed.

Right or wrong doesn't mater the only way Israel will allow fuel sales to return to normal levels will be if Hamas is removed from the process.

The craziest part of all this what other country on the entire planet buys fuel and electricity from the people they consider there enemy is that totally insane!

[edit on 6/2/09 by dragonridr]



posted on Jun, 2 2009 @ 06:38 PM
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And exactly who gave Israel the right to say what goes in and out of another country. Israel will only allow this and Israel will only allow that. Who exactly gave them this right? Or are they taking on their benefactors persona?



posted on Jun, 2 2009 @ 07:12 PM
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reply to post by sueloujo
 

You may be a neighbor of mine, but you'll cross my fence line only when I say you can.

My border is MY border, my fence is on my property and is MY fence, and anyone doesn't like my fence on MY land can pucker up and french kiss my rosy red ******.

Israel owes these people nothing.

They got a crappy piece of land? Fine - go through Egypt's border or bring it in by boat.

If they'd disarm Hamas and acted like normal people, the border would open back up.

But I wouldn't trust them.

They have a long, consistent record of violence, border violations, murder and kidnapping.

Even Egypt detests them.



posted on Jun, 2 2009 @ 07:29 PM
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I would give my opinion on the matter but in reality it doesn't matter. The subjective morals of right and wrong have never stopped anyone taking land before. The world was probably a lot simpler in the days when double standards weren't as obvious and powerful nations didn't rely on propaganda so much. When I say double standards and propaganda I'm certainly not just talking about Israel, the Arab nations use these tools just as much if not more then Israel.



posted on Jun, 2 2009 @ 07:43 PM
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reply to post by sueloujo
 


Unless you have the power to protect your rights you have none. The same is true of territory. Right now Palestine doesn't have the power to get Israel to do anything they don't want to do and no allies powerful enough to do it on their behalf. So in every tangible way Israel does have the right to do what they are doing. Beliefs about what is right and wrong are subjective and only have meaning if you have the power to enforce them or convince others to agree to them. Don't shoot the messager.



posted on Jun, 2 2009 @ 08:55 PM
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Originally posted by dragonridr
Wow the problem gets worse they dont have running water do you have anything to support this theory of yours?

It's not a theory, it's fact:


The UN says it is still sheltering at least 35,000 Palestinians while 400,000 people are without running water.

Source



And Israel wouldn't even consider stopping a UN transport because most likely be from the United States,France or the UK

Naval blockade example


and trust me this is not the group Israel would want to mess with and the UN would be so far up Israel rear they wouldn't be able to sneeze without a UN inspector present.


Israel repeatedly laughs in the face of the UN. In fact, they have been known to deliberately target them:
74.125.77.132...:hsLOLU3A6HIJ:www.undispatch.com/node/8196+UN+idf+target&cd=10&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=uk
Sorry about the cached link but the servers are having problems.



You like to mislead people i personally don't care which side of the argument you choose but i do care when people lie about the facts.

I like to mislead people? I have provided evidence for everything I have said, where is yours? I have not lied once. Prove I have.


This issue is far more complicated then apparently you understand.

On the contrary, I think it is you who is failing to understand or ignore the facts. At least with Israeli apologists like dooper I don't have to debate facts but the morals and politics behind them.


I don't know how strong you think Israel is but news flash they don't control the world they are not the supreme government

Some might disagree but that is a topic for another thread entirely.


But the bottom line is this is not all there fault there is a lot more blame to go around.This problem was created by Israel,Jordan,Lebanon,Egypt,Iran,Saudi Arabia,the UN, Britain,America,Russia,and of course religion.There just mountains of blame that can be placed

I don't disagree.



but in the end the only ones that can fix this is the Palestinians

Disagree entirely for the aforementioned reasons and more.



posted on Jun, 2 2009 @ 09:52 PM
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reply to post by Goathief
 


Lets see Israelis pullout no running water do you know why? they just went through a war. The reason for non running water you ask ? Damage to electrical grids apparently your unaware but most of the water in the area is received by electric pumps. A miraculous thing happens when electricity is restored the pumps work! Well now its june 5 months later guess what they are being supplied electricity and as a side effect now they have water.

The UN is still dealing with people that lost there homes but you have to have a house to get running water. So again you just proved in January they didn't have running water no surprise there what about now?

And the article you posted was a warning to Palestinians it wouldnt apply to any UN ship all though the UN wouldn't make a habit of sending ships into a war zone. However you are apparently unaware that Nato Ships were in the area and guess what Israel didn't even think of trying to stop them.Hmm wonder why?

We can play this game of twisting facts all day long in the end your simply either you are purposely misleading or just unaware of the facts im not sure which.A major part of the problem is the Palestinians they depend on Israel for fuel and electricity my god do you depend on people who are your enemy to take care of you?There only hope is to start working towards full power generation not the half hearted effort hamas has put into it and stop trying to buy fuel from the Israelis.

You cant expect Israel to continue to baby sit them if there government does not cooperate with Israel. The people suffer because there government is an idiot who is willing to steal aid to its own people say they made a mistake it was an accident then guess what happened again. Hamas doesnt care about there people and it shows. You can feel sorry for the Palestinians lord knows i do but the fact of the matter is Hamas shares the blame here and is really the only one that can make a change all israel can do is capitulate once again and we see how well thats been working.

[edit on 6/3/09 by dragonridr]



posted on Jun, 3 2009 @ 01:13 AM
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reply to post by dragonridr
 


So now you use technicalities to justify the murder or women and children. I know most of the history of the region. Israel isn't justified in what they are doing. I would have more respect for Israel if they just came out and said we're going to take that land outright and not hide behind the "Victim" role. They've created the mess they have now.



posted on Jun, 3 2009 @ 02:43 AM
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Originally posted by dragonridr
A miraculous thing happens when electricity is restored the pumps work! Well now its june 5 months later guess what they are being supplied electricity and as a side effect now they have water.

The UN is still dealing with people that lost there homes but you have to have a house to get running water. So again you just proved in January they didn't have running water no surprise there what about now?

Oh for god's sake, is it really that hard to do a search? Is the 28th of May 2009 recent enough for you?


The water and sanitation infrastructure in the Gaza Strip is in dire need of a comprehensive upgrade. Even if the existing infrastructure were operating at full capacity, it would not meet the needs of the population. To provide Gaza's 1.5 million inhabitants with adequate facilities it is absolutely essential that materials such as cement, steel and water pipes be allowed in.

Source

What about this UN report? www.ochaopt.org...

Once again, I have proven myself to be factually correct. In fact, we can talk about raw sewage regularly polluting the drinking water too if you like? I understand it might be a bit of a shock for you but lets move on from your denial and accusations of lying BS.



posted on Jun, 3 2009 @ 12:56 PM
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Originally posted by Goathief

Originally posted by dragonridr
A miraculous thing happens when electricity is restored the pumps work! Well now its june 5 months later guess what they are being supplied electricity and as a side effect now they have water.

The UN is still dealing with people that lost there homes but you have to have a house to get running water. So again you just proved in January they didn't have running water no surprise there what about now?

Oh for god's sake, is it really that hard to do a search? Is the 28th of May 2009 recent enough for you?


The water and sanitation infrastructure in the Gaza Strip is in dire need of a comprehensive upgrade. Even if the existing infrastructure were operating at full capacity, it would not meet the needs of the population. To provide Gaza's 1.5 million inhabitants with adequate facilities it is absolutely essential that materials such as cement, steel and water pipes be allowed in.

Source

What about this UN report? www.ochaopt.org...

Once again, I have proven myself to be factually correct. In fact, we can talk about raw sewage regularly polluting the drinking water too if you like? I understand it might be a bit of a shock for you but lets move on from your denial and accusations of lying BS.


Im going to keep this short because we straying off track but the article you posted is from the UN report the part where they are discussing sewage it is blamed on the Israelis that the sewage wasn't being treated because they needed 14 days of uninterrupted power this caused the system to back up and even caused it to spill over into the med. This occurred in feb so is an ols issue power levels are back to normal.

As far as the water your reading about a desalination plant the project was started in 2002 Israel is very much assisting in the approval, funding [$45m.] and in executing a large project to deal with northern Gaza's sewage, despite the continuing situation, "Likewise, the construction of a large treatment plant in central Gaza has also been approved, and Israel is willing to help build two more plants in the southern region of the Strip.

What does this mean the things sited in the UN report would improve conditions.Do you know why these materials are sitting on a dock in Israel because the people with the expertise to move and install these pipes don't want to go near the place its to unstable. Do you know why they are spending money trying to get the plant going it was determined back in2001 a report that the aquifer that supplies the area with water is being over used and is in danger this is a real threat.

Everything you just showed me only proves Hamas should be dealing with the issue. Hamas is in charge there now and they should find a solution to the problem.So trying to pin this on Israelis again is useless. When are you going to realize that there are other factors involved besides Israel as i previously stated they have blame Israel has done some of the stupidest things, but Hamas has to either step up or get out.

Now your going to try to blame Israel for all the things wrong its all there fault there killing these people etc.This is just simply not the truth if they decide to observe there sovereignty and tomorrow shut down there borders were nothing goes through they have this right. However there spending money in an area to improve conditions and supplying electricity,fuel and yes water from there plants rather odd don't you think if they were trying to kill them? They don't want to kill them if they did there is much easier ways so lets try to get off the big bad Israelis trying to commit genocide it is nothing but propaganda.



posted on Jun, 3 2009 @ 04:22 PM
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reply to post by dragonridr
 



Rearrange the words: air, of, lots, hot.

As you said this is straying away from the original article so lets leave it like that.



posted on Jun, 3 2009 @ 04:31 PM
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reply to post by Goathief
 

The buffer zone quite simply is a safety necessity.

The damned Gazans were routinely digging and tunneling under the previous "near border" areas, so now Israel has widened the area making these dumbasses dig a whole lot further.

The Israelis aren't dumb.

For every Gazan tactic, there's an effective Israeli counter-tactic.

Oh. The lack of RUNNING water may be an inconvenience, but humanity the world over did without running water until the last twenty or so generations.

Not that big of a deal.

BUT.

If they want water, they should maybe sell their AK's and purchase a water system.

Nah. That would solve the problem.

And Hamas can only justify their existence if they keep trouble stirred up.



posted on Jun, 5 2009 @ 01:45 AM
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reply to post by dooper
 


Id have to say your a bit rough but you do know how to make a point! I really think that people think soldiers should only open fire if they are attacked. Reality when i was in the military i tended to like to fire first makes it less likely id die. So for them to set up a zone to prevent troops from being killed only makes sense. But the problem seems to be i guess the IDF is supposed to wait for that person to walk over to them and blow themselves up!Glad my unit didn't work that way.



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