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UN: Israeli buffer zone eats up 30 percent of Gaza's arable land

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posted on Jun, 1 2009 @ 02:53 PM
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Originally posted by dragonridr
From environmental to military disputes, buffer zones are often used to defuse or avert conflict. This only fails when people enter those zones and i didnt see anyone forcing these people


Um, what about the people who's farms and homes are in this "buffer zone"? What about the folks who, if they attempt to return to their land will be indiscriminately shot by automatic 50-cal guns?

Do you think its right that they are forced from their homes, on pain of death?




posted on Jun, 1 2009 @ 03:06 PM
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Originally posted by ModernAcademia
reply to post by dragonridr
 


Dude those guns are being pointed at hungry starving blockaded people
they aren't being pointed at the oppressors trying to steal land

kinda one-sided don't you think?

you talk as if it's good for both parties lol and it's equally fair and mutually beneficial

or were you being sarcastic?


Trust me allowing these two groups to get to close to each other is a bad idea even the UN conceded that point that is why they authorized the buffer zones. Im not truly concerned with who is right who is wrong as i said earlier there are 2 sides to every story.But i can tell you these buffer zones protect the Palestinians as much as they do the Israelis.Did you know if the Israelis go wondering past these buffer zones they will be attacked do you not think hamas has an army? In fact they have a navy kind of a joke but none the less they have one.



posted on Jun, 1 2009 @ 03:10 PM
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reply to post by dragonridr
 


protection is not synonomous with oppression

you can't point a gun at someone and say your are protecting them
you just can't

plus you aren't taking everything else into account either

this is all stupidty, all over "the bible told us it's our land" BS

these are clowns with the world's most nukes

people are starving to death because what you say is "protecting" them



posted on Jun, 1 2009 @ 03:13 PM
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What you fail to say is why...

Whenever they get near the boarder, they launch rockets and mortors.


When they get to the wall, they try to get through it so they can kill innocent civilians.

Maybe if they all tried farming and not attacking, it would be different.

Do they all do this, no.

Can the innocent farmers be see from the terrorist, no.

Since that IS the case, you must keep all away from the wall to maintain security.



posted on Jun, 1 2009 @ 03:20 PM
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While i agree that taking land that can be used to grow food from hungry desolate people is very cruel thing to do, even for security measures, your approach is not correct too.
There is no buffer zone in West bank. Same Palestinians. Minus rockets and stuff. So you are wrong when you try to present it as an oppression,starving out or concentration camp. It is cold, brutal, cruel but simple answer to charges against Israeli border patrols. There are no Israeli settlements in Gaza anymore, so nowhere to expend. There are Israeli settlements in West bank and no buffer zone. Did you ever tried to understand why? Why West bank hospitals have medication and people have food? While in Gaza it is not so?



posted on Jun, 1 2009 @ 03:23 PM
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Originally posted by mrmonsoon
Whenever they get near the boarder, they launch rockets and mortors.

Hareetz, an israeli newspaper, themselves reported Mossad agents prentending to be Hamas supporters launched rockets.


Originally posted by mrmonsoon
When they get to the wall, they try to get through it so they can kill innocent civilians.

I don't think they want to go through that wall that shouldn't be there in the first place to kill innocent delusional civilians who think they own the land because an ancient book told them they do.

Do you think it's possible they want to go through the wall for I don't know... maybe food? You know the thing that Israel is blockading them to get? Or medical supplies?


Originally posted by mrmonsoon
Can the innocent farmers be see from the terrorist, no.

Since that IS the case, you must keep all away from the wall to maintain security.

did you see the attack on Gaza
as far as I'm concerned the IDF are the terroists.
Gazans just want to live freely.

[edit on 1-6-2009 by ModernAcademia]



posted on Jun, 1 2009 @ 03:24 PM
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I guess one question to ask is when they extended the buffer zone, did they extend it equally into Israeli territory as well or didi they just make the Gaza Strip smaller? If they are just trying to keep the two parties away from each other, why not take 750 feet off of each side?



posted on Jun, 1 2009 @ 03:31 PM
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Number of people who die from malnutrition every day - 25,000

Number of Gazans who have died from malnutrition in the past year - 0

ATS interest in non-Israeli caused suffering - ZERO



posted on Jun, 1 2009 @ 03:41 PM
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reply to post by ModernAcademia
 


Now Modern, you know better than to do that. You can't just twist your facts to make a point which in turn, nullifies your point.

Robot gunners? If there's a no-man's land, then it's a no-man's land. It doesn't matter if it's covered by soldiers, a mine field, an HE laser evaporator, a microwave, or a motion-activated weapon system. It's still a defined no-man's land.

Get it?

Palestinians - more specifically Gazans - did not occupy Israel, but have sent numerous suicide bombers into Israel to explode themselves in restaurants, in shopping areas, in coffee house, and on buses.

These activities do not make you welcome in Israel. In fact, they want like-kind kept out.

You'll note that the border was previously open until they began snatching Israeli soldiers and firing rockets across the border. It was an open border until tunneling was used to facilitate attacks, and in general - bringing destruction to Israel.

If you want open borders, you act responsibly. Be a good neighbor.

You want to act like a bunch of terrorists - don't bitch and whine when the border is closed.

You want to tunnel under the border?

Don't be surprised if the Israelis don't extend the distance.

As for those checkpoints. They wouldn't be necessary if not for Israelis being attacked since their creation by guerillas using terrorism.

Those checkpoints are a response to Palestinian action.

Get it?

This makes my perspective skewered? Since when is common-sense approaches skewered?

And the name calling!

Are all radical Muslims taught to do this when all else fails? I always wondered if that's what the Madras taught?



posted on Jun, 1 2009 @ 03:42 PM
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Originally posted by dragonridr

Originally posted by sueloujo
reply to post by dragonridr
 


No sorry..that explanation does not wear with me. College kids? I certainly dont agree with that. Wearing high viz jackets so as to be seen and not shot...seems like common sense to me. They continue so that they can carry on working and to be honest if I was a UN worker I would carry on too.
I tell you what...you seem to know this field and who owns it as you state its not a farmer's field...it certainly does not belong to Israel...tell us all please...and then tell us why think this "existence" is so totally right.


Not my judgment if its right or wrong,I will say the buffer zone is a good idea whenever you have 2 groups who dont get along. From environmental to military disputes, buffer zones are often used to defuse or avert conflict. This only fails when people enter those zones and i didnt see anyone forcing these peopleAnd trust me that woman was not a farmer shes cute but not a farmer, that must lead to the obvious conclusion they are instigating a conflict even you must agree unless of course you have closed your mind to the fact that there is 2 sides to every story.Truth is restrictions along these areas go up then down it continually changes depending on the threat hezzbolah makes. Before they started up there latest rocket launches last year you could approach within 50 meters.Have a friend who is an officer with the IDF also might interest you to know hes what you would consider a Palestinian. Did you know they have other people in the IDF besides jews?



Who said that woman was a farmer? I would say she was an aid worker if anything so how you would come to a conclusion that they were instigating it is beyond me. They made that old lady lie in the gutter in fear didnt they? I also have a friend in Palestine and I have heard nothing from him since the war...his last words to me were "I hate this life and what they are doing to us".
I could post numerous vids about the IDF shooting at farmers...what would be the point? They are all there on utube for interested parties.



posted on Jun, 1 2009 @ 03:47 PM
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Originally posted by ModernAcademia
reply to post by dragonridr
 


protection is not synonomous with oppression

you can't point a gun at someone and say your are protecting them
you just can't

plus you aren't taking everything else into account either

this is all stupidty, all over "the bible told us it's our land" BS

these are clowns with the world's most nukes

people are starving to death because what you say is "protecting" them


The Palestinian conflict is much more complicated than apparently your aware of. Isreali policies are indeed a problem there country is extremely paranoid.They have a tendency when things get ruff to hide and point alot of guns at you. However from a history stand point i do understand there actions they have been attacked by every country around them and this tends to create alot of paranoia. There kinda like a snapping turtle when things get rough they retreat into there shell but put a finger in the wrong place and they will bite it off! however the problems are not all isreals fault there is plenty of blame to go around.

There Hamas they are allowing there people to starve instead of spending money on creating jobs building industries and providing money to support there education system,hospitals and utilities such as water. And doing things to promote agriculture such as irrigation implementing new farming techniques they choose to buy rockets guns and arm alot of people who are as much a threat to the Palestinians as they are to the Israelis. Even there own police force can be threatened by hamas military.

Now lets move to Egypt they could end the Palestinians plight tomorrow if they wanted to. Heres the problem they cant deal with hamas either and there as afraid of them as the Israelis. There affraid that there would be terrorist attacks against there tourism trade and egypt will do what ever it takes to protect tourism. That is why they shut off there border and guess what they will shoot palistians who come to close!

Then theres Lebanon they are the one truly pulling the strings in the west bank and gaza. They need this conflict to continue they are fighting a covert war with Isreal. There supplying training and weapons to continue the conflict. If you truly believed the Palestinian government is not controlled by Lebanon i suggest you start looking closer at them.There is still other culprits like jordan the UN. But the bottom line is untill these 2 groups stop fighting or the palistians just say you know what we need to take care of ourselves and build up there own infrastructure will be dealing with these problems.

Oh and this was never about land very few wars are what we like to refer as Palestinians didn't even live in the area until the British moved them there for cheap labor but again thats another suspect huh!



posted on Jun, 1 2009 @ 03:53 PM
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Originally posted by Retseh
Number of Gazans who have died from malnutrition in the past year - 0


Why whould you say that when it's not true out of curiosity?


More than 75% of the Gaza strip faces severe power cuts and some other areas completely plunged into darkness.

Pumped fresh water is not reaching all living places, farms and central water wells

Sewage and treatment water machines are halted. Additionally around 40 million tons of sewage water leaked into the Mediterranean contaminating it and damaging fish resources.

According to UNRWA, around 750,000 of its beneficiaries don’t get their devoted share of food parcels. With the Israeli ban on UNRWA aid, it is ensuring that a dire humanitarian crisis will occur within days.

wheat and flour mills in Gaza announced inability of continuing work and feared starvation would be a factor in Palestine if the closure lasts much longer.

www.nowpublic.com...




The UN warned today that Gaza would run out of food aid in two days unless Israel's blockade, which it described as "shameful and unacceptable", is relaxed.

The UN Relief and Works Agency, which distributes food to half of Gaza's 1.5 million people, called the blockade "a physical as well as a mental punishment".

Israel is now allowing a limited amount of fuel across the border but is still blocking food deliveries.

www.thisislondon.co.uk...




Consider this: UNICEF reports that, "across the West Bank some 600 obstacles to movement -- and the barrier separating the West Bank from Israel -- make it difficult for children to attend schools, patients to go to health centres and families to see each other... the closure regime is tightening even for UN humanitarian operations".
www.globalresearch.ca...



posted on Jun, 1 2009 @ 04:01 PM
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Dont be suprised if.. when you try to take over someone else's land and bulldoze their land..and build settlements on land that is not yours ... and cut off major supplies..that those people retaliate in ways you dont like.

Its chicken and egg really. Nobody can deny that israel has caused this conflict because they believe God gave them this land.



posted on Jun, 1 2009 @ 04:08 PM
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reply to post by dooper
 


Dooper, none of what you said means anything
I do apologize for that and let me say why
I did read your entire post
But the reason why it doesn't mean anything is because...

Let's, just to make you happy, forget about the things you never seem to acknowledge like apartheid, starvation, murder, denying food and medical supplies etc.., and let's just talk about what you mentioned.

So let's say that people in Manhattan NY did the exact same things you mentioned that palestinians did, and now multiply that by 5.

Ok, years later are you going to build a wall around brownsville making EVERYBODY guilty by association, or location?



posted on Jun, 1 2009 @ 04:09 PM
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reply to post by sueloujo
 


The Israelis were given the land by the British.

When attacked in 1948, they fought back and ended up winning more land.

Same thing has happened ever since.

Apparently, this belief that God is giving them their land back has some validity, as there was no way in hell they could have won against such numbers each time and succeed.

Maybe your suggestion has merit.

Maybe God is involved.

It was you that brought it up . . .



posted on Jun, 1 2009 @ 04:15 PM
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Im going to say to both of you the answer is a lot more complicated then you guys give it credit see my last post but In certain respects the only one that can solve this is the Palestinians there decisions effect all other aspects of the conflict.



posted on Jun, 1 2009 @ 04:18 PM
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reply to post by dragonridr
 


I think you don't realize the situation as it is
See here's the thing
You said I don't see how complicated the situation is
I don't think we need to go too much into detail
there's innocent women and children starvign, that is wrong end of story!

but then I read your 'detail'
and you have some things listed that are incorrect
so when I get home I will go into detail!



posted on Jun, 1 2009 @ 04:22 PM
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reply to post by ModernAcademia
 


Don't punish everyone?

My God! Gaza elected HAMAS to lead their government!

HAMAS!

And what?

This is not supposed to be an indicator of where these people's heads are?

Over here, we lock the nuts behind closed doors as well.

In fact, it's a common practice world wide.



posted on Jun, 1 2009 @ 04:31 PM
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reply to post by ModernAcademia
 


Well I went through your links and didn't find so much as a single case of a Gazan dying from starvation.

So quite how you have the temerity to accuse me of not telling the truth is beyond me.

Show me a link about a dead Gazan starving to death or be man enough to apologize.



posted on Jun, 1 2009 @ 04:33 PM
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Originally posted by dooper

My God! Gaza elected HAMAS to lead their government!


America elected BUSH!!!!
Should all of america be blockaded?
Oh noooooo!!!!!!

Many voted for McCain, another Bush

what's your point?

You vote for someone stupid that means you deserve extreme oppression?

What is this???????



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