The End of America, “Gone Without a Whimper”, page 19

reply to post by Zealott

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Wow. I thought I'd been called everything under the sun. Many unrepeatable here, or in polite company.

So now I'm a "DRAIN."

I would assume that you have come to this conclusion using logic, my statements, or my postulations, and I'm honestly curious as to why you came to that determination.

A drain on who, or how would I be a drain?

Will you see if you can find the words? I promise you, I'm not offended in any way. Just a bit curious.

Different people see me different ways.

reply to post by miragezero

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Miragezero, there is so much that you said that I agree with. I too believe our government has many problems that they must face daily, that we have almost zero idea of the complexities. Even still, we have a Constitution that was put into place to limit the power of a centralized Federal Government. This federal government over the last two decades, and in earnest, they have gone out of their way to make the people of this nation, and all States subservient. They have achieved their status by judicial edicts and through bullying tactics. This federal government is allowing itself, and has usurped powers it was never granted. This federal government has created lists of enemies that they deem a threat to their power. Chief among them are Constitutionalist. That is unacceptable, period! I don't care if this federal government makes this nation so rich our streets can be paved in gold. What this federal government has done to our Constitution is criminal! I am not the only one who believes such. There are several States that have had enough. There is a reason why people are waking up, and it has nothing to do with a black president. To even suggest such a hateful thing shows just how weak of character those who demand more federal power really are. And I don’t know where you live but the federal government is everywhere you go and in almost everything you do. Just because you choose not to notice doesn’t mean it isn’t there.

At this moment in time, for me, the fight right now is the States against the Federal Government, while at the same time I believe localized groups need to be created and organized. Also, it might also be time for a national movement to begin. I also agree this is not 1776. I would say we are in 1774, however, because we don't need to wait months for a response, we could move into 1776/7 in a damn hurry. Regardless of what our population levels are, there is a document that millions of Americans deem unchangeable. Our Constitution cannot be subjugated without due process, yet sadly that process has been usurped by the Courts and Agencies that are this federal governments abusive tools. Thankfully people have awoken to these simple facts and are standing up in mass!

To prevent some kind of civil unrest the federal government has to understand they have gone to far and give the States their power back and begin to work within the Constitution. If they continue to force their will in complete defiance of the Constitution, then there will be hell to pay. We see States and People across this nation allying themselves against this abusive federal government. They are abusive. Would you tell a wife to stay with her abusive husband because he provides for her, and she has no idea the stress he is under? Of course not! When an injustice has been discovered, or when it is on going, then it is our duty as citizens to remind our government who has the real power. Besides, all government is a collection of a small group of men and women, paperwork and a promise. There is nothing special about government unless the people say so... And as we see… people are beginning to rise up and demand these small groups of people stop abusing the privileges they have been granted, and to stop breaking promise after promise.

These truths are what we are up against and what people across this nation are standing United against. Throwing our heads into the sand while crying, "our federal government aint as bad as others", does not fly anymore. They are out of control by American Standards and that's all they need to know. If they don't want to create instability then they need to back down. If they refuse, because they feel they can demand anything they want.. While at the same time pretending as if they don't need to explain. Well then they just might receive an answer they probably never thought they would have to fear.
This federal government is out of control and the people are just about ready. I know States are fighting back and with each pushback by the States more people are awaking. And if the States back down because the federal government pushes/threatens back… Well then that might be the final spark. The Federal Government needs to stop, if they refuse, then they are going to stop one way or the other. Lines are being drawn in the sand. I just hope we can still find peaceful answers. But if HR 2159, or socialized healthcare passes, well then the Federal Government has declared war against the States and the people… and the States and the People will need to decide if we have the same resolve of our founding fathers. Time will tell.


--Charles Marcello




[edit on 7-6-2009 by littlebunny]

reply to post by littlebunny

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1774... you hit the nail on the head. I read some of the writings of the leaders involved in Dunmore's War (Aug-Dec 1774) a couple of months ago, and they were saying then the same things I'm hearing now. Although they had just fought a war on behalf of the colony of Virginia, under Lord Dunmore, against a coalition of indians from the Northwest territory of the time, they knew which way the winds were blowing, and to a man The officers pledged their honor and their blood to the cause of freedom. Nearly to a man, the officers and enlisted men alike of the militia under Dunmore fought against the crown in the coming storm.

And they all knew it was coming.

reply to post by littlebunny

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I don't have much anything else to add. We just aren't going to see eye to eye. The challenges we face and the imposings of the federal government pale in comparison to what the revolution was all about (for example I find none of our troops in my town taking over my rooms etc), and at the same time the world has changed so immensely that it is frankly not the same place anymore. You can wax poetic and get on a soapbox pretending to be washington from behind a computer screen in an air conditioned room both of which are powered by stable and relatively cheap energy thanks to gov't programs... then if you get pissed of enough at reading this post and have a heart attack an ambulance will rush you to the nearest hospital on federally subsidized roads and then the fed can pay for some of the bill on top of that.... I have more people in my very city than there were in the entire *country* in 1776, and they don't have to go to any great lengths to get a mass produced weapon not built by a craftsman but by a machine... And you say the gov't is declaring war on the people for not wanting to give guns to terrorists and for wanting some sort of nationalized health care?

If you *really* think people are rising en masse then why don't you *organize* and RUN FOR OFFICE?

reply to post by miragezero

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No, you have 8 Brigades of German, French and other European troops on US soil on US military post openly stating they are here to collect weapon and keep the peace in the coming economic collapses ; you have our President and Congress committing blatant treason on an almost daily basis; you have Multi-Jurisdictional Police (US Gestapo) training with manuals that state that Christians, Patriot Groups and Constitution/Bill of Rights Defenders are domestic terrorist while trashing the Constitution with their storm trooper tactics; but you just enjoy your last few months of ‘peace’ while they finish building your new police state society, you seem to be quiet comfortable in it.

reply to post by miragezero

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5 of my great-great-great and so on grandfathers didn't have troops quartering in their rooms either. They lived in the wilderness. However, when it was on, they came out of that wilderness to fight for what was right, regardless of personal inconvenience or safety. They had a social conscience that called them to support their fellow citizens against a government gone rogue. One, a 'Continental' as opposed to the rest who were 'militia', was at Yorktown, participated in the battle, and witnessed Cornwallis' surrender. Another was a 14 year old boy when he entered service in the militia, and did scouting work all by his lonesome, without backup of any sort. The argument of 'it doesn't affect me' doesn't hold water, except as the act of the self-absorbed.

I'm really not sure what the size of the population has to do with it, (for the record, it was closer to 4 million, not 2.5 million) but if you want to go that route, consider that the surface area of the US was quite a lot smaller then too. No, it's not the same place it was. I'm still not sure why that means the people need to roll over and just take the abuse. Perhaps 'rocking the boat' inhibits your PERSONAL bottom line?

Also to let you know, the federal government doesn't supply my power or water or gas here, maybe they do where you live. matter of fact, the fed is energetically trying to price me out of utility services with their exorbitant and ridiculous taxes and regulations, as we speak (carbon credits, anyone?). Neither do they run the local ambulance services or the hospitals, although I realized they're giving it a bully effort to take those over, too. Emphasis on the word 'bully'.

They DO, however give a wonderful monthly subsidy to the miscreants that try to break into my house occaisionally. without that subsidy, the knotheads would probably have to work for a living, and wouldn't have free time on their hands to try to figure out how easiest to harm me and mine.

One point you got right is that the fed DOES subsidize the roads. Well, the interstates anyhow. That IS within their job description, and I don't kick about it. They do not, however pay anything on my medical bills. I don't really want them to, however. That's not in their job description. I get the wonderful opportunity to pay Social Security taxes, which the fed has graciously assured me, in writing no less, that I will never live long enough to collect on. Ok, to be honest I don't pay them anymore, since I quit my job in disgust. They've taken enough from me already, and misused it. No, I don't live on 'public assistance'. I'm a grown man.

Folks around here DO have to go to unreasonable lengths to arm themselves these days. ANY interference in that right is unacceptable. Exactly what part of 'infringed' is not clear? Webster's could help them out with that.

In short, not all of us live in your blindered utopia, but we're very happy you can, evidently at our expense, if not now, then in the near future as your stranglehold solidifies.

Run for office? You're joking, right? in the last 10 years, BOTH parties have managed to put illegitimate presidents in office. What is it about the process that causes you to live under the delusion that the people's voices are being heard? Which one of these "czars" did YOU vote for? Where, in the Constitution, is the office of "Czar" (russian for 'king') authorized? Wasn't the original revolution fought to get out from under a 'king'? Where is anything of the nature of the 'Patriot' Act authorized? The list goes on, but I won't bore you.

In short, you've shown which side of the line you stand on, and I respect you for that. Now, you know which side I stand on. I expect no respect for it, though. I haven't seen that for years, and don't really require it to stand on my own, against all enemies both foreign and domestic.

nenothtu out

reply to post by nenothtu

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Nevermind.

Whatever guys. Don't do anything stupid.

Quitting a job is not really the best thing to do for improving your conditions, btw, and don't assume anything about people on the net (including me).

PS- The federal government and its workers are also citizens and the vast majority of them good and decent ones at that.

[edit on 7-6-2009 by miragezero]

Originally posted by miragezero
reply to post by nenothtu

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Nevermind.

Whatever guys. Don't do anything stupid.

Quitting a job is not really the best thing to do for improving your conditions, btw, and don't assume anything about people on the net (including me).

PS- The federal government and its workers are also citizens and the vast majority of them good and decent ones at that.

[edit on 7-6-2009 by miragezero]

Excellent points...

I have no desire to quit my job. I only desire to be left in peace and be allowed to have my pursuit of happiness.

I assume nothing about anyone.

If it does ever come to revolution or civil war, one thing I am certain of and the most tragic part is that the real culprits behind the NWO will not be the ones fighting. No justice will be brought to them. Such a fight would be between the citizens (the peasants) and the NWO yes men in the Government.

Originally posted by miragezero
reply to post by nenothtu

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Nevermind.

Whatever guys. Don't do anything stupid.

Quitting a job is not really the best thing to do for improving your conditions, btw, and don't assume anything about people on the net (including me).

PS- The federal government and its workers are also citizens and the vast majority of them good and decent ones at that.

[edit on 7-6-2009 by miragezero]

Quitting my job has done absolute wonders to "improve my conditions". The only assumptions I made were in direct response to your statements in your posts.

You have a wonderful way of conflating "the federal government" with "it's workers", whereas I tend to differentiate the two, between makers of poor governing decisions, and the poor flunkies tasked with carrying out those poor decisions. I'm not denigrating "it's workers", I just want them to have a more honest job to do, which doesn't involve micromanaging my life, or anyone else's, by legislative fiat.

Am I required to live by your definition of "something stupid"? If so, pray tell which parts of YOUR life may I direct for YOU?

Good and decent citizens don't micromanage the affairs of others without invitation.

Originally posted by Kombatt98
Russia has had experience with the horrible trotskyite communism , which was funded by wall street and led 25 million deaths from 1917-1922 . it was Stalin who overthrow trotskyite communism and replaced it with state capitalism combined with various elements of socialism(stalin is regarded as a hero in Russia as he stood in defiance to the NWO and severely damaged their plans, so we have this holodomer propaganda which was created by NWO to smear Stalin ) .

Russia is warning you that USA is going to be destroyed by trotskyite communism ,while Russia saved itself from this monster , due to moral values and stalinist-tsarist bureaucracy, USA will not be able to save itslef from this monster as its people have no moral values and society is about to collapse

what do you think SGTchaos?

Leave it to a Communist to twist the truth, and even lie as much as possible trying to save his/her dictatorial form of government/economic system...

Many Americans, and people around the world have been slowly indoctrinated to believe the lies told by people such as Kombatt98.

Stalin was no saviour of anyone. Stalin was as bad, if not worse than Lenin ever was, and under Stalin's tyrannical rule millions of Russians were murdered, and millions others were imprisoned in the Siberian Gulags because of their political views, and for daring to speak against the tyranny of Stalin.

Stalin was actually born under the name Joseph Dzhugashvili, and under the Bolshevik movement he assumed the name Stalin, which in case people have forgotten means "man of steel".

Perhaps "Kombatt98" and his comrades would love for people to forget the truth about Stalin, and in general about the atrocities under evey Communist dictatorship, but such people can never bury the truth, that is unless it is done by Putin, and the Russian government who were able to change history as taught in Russia so that new generations of Russians would think of Stalin as a saviour.

But fortunately such an endeveour undertaken by the Communists has not been "completely" sucessful in many western countries yet. But they have been working on it for decades now with the indoctrination of western children by Liberal professors claiming Socialism/Communism is the best for of government/economic system.

Anyway, it was Stalin who engineered the Great Famine-Genocide of Ukraine, because the people there would not accept being pulled under the collective rule of another Communist dictator.

This was done during the "5 year plans" as the Communist dictatorship under Stalin set up to "collectivizing" the peasantry of ukraine.

In this engineered famine-genocide between 5-7 million people died of starvation until they accepted to be part of the collective. Ukraine was the breadbasket of the Soviet Union yet people in Ukraine were starved to death because of Stalin's plans.

Stalin was known to have a callous disregard for human life, which happens to be a characteristic of Communists who form their own Communist dictatorships.

If Kombatt98 is a young Russian, then I "could" understand where he is believing all these lies about Stalin, if he is not, shame on him for trying to spread the lies in which in Russia, under Putin, new generations of Russians are being indoctrinated into believing.

Stalin's new status in Russia

..........................
"Stalin made Russia a superpower and was one of the founders of the coalition against Hitler in World War II," says Sergei Malinkovich, leader of the St Petersburg Communist Party.

"In all opinion polls he comes out on top as the most popular figure. Nobody else comes close. So for his service to this country we can forgive his mistakes."

Not only is Mr Malinkovich prepared to forgive Stalin's "mistakes", he also wants the man who is regarded as one of the most bloodthirsty tyrants of the 20th Century to be made a saint.

As I was interviewing him, he held a small neatly framed icon of Stalin's face.

Last month an Orthodox priest also displayed an icon of Stalin in his church near St Petersburg.
....................
But now there is a much broader campaign to rehabilitate Stalin and it seems to be coming from the highest levels of government.

Archives seized

The primary evidence comes in the form of a new manual for history teachers in the country's schools, which says Stalin acted "entirely rationally".

"[The initiative] came from the very top," says the editor of the manual, historian Alexander Danilov.

"I believe it was the idea of former president, now prime minister, Vladimir Putin.

"It fits completely with the political course we have had for the last eight years, which is dedicated to the unity of society."

But the campaign goes further than reinterpreting history for schoolchildren. It is also physical.

Earlier this month, riot police raided the St Petersburg office of one of Russias best-known human rights organisations, Memorial.

Claiming a possible link with an extremist article published in a local newspaper, the police took away 12 computer hard-drives containing the entire digital archive of the atrocities committed under Stalin.

Memorial's St Petersburg office specialises in researching the crimes committed by the Soviet regime.

"It's a huge blow to our organisation," says Irina Flige, the office director.

"This was 20 years work. Wed been making a universally accessible database with hundreds of thousands of names.

"Maybe this was a warning to scare us?"

Irina Flige believes they were targeted because they are now on the wrong side of a new ideological divide.

New nationalism

The new ideology is "Putinism" which, she says, has evolved over the past two years and is based on a strident form of nationalism.

It seems Russians are to be proud of their history, not ashamed, and so those investigating and cataloguing the atrocities of the past are no longer welcome.

"The official line now is that Stalin and the Soviet regime were successful in creating a great country," says Irina Flige.

"And if the terror of Stalin is justified, then the government today can do what it wants to achieve its aims."

The outrage at what has happened to the Memorial archive spreads beyond Russia's borders.

The British historian Orlando Figes worked with Memorial when he was researching his latest book The Whisperers: Private Lives in Stalin's Russia.

"By conservative estimates 25 million people were repressed in the Soviet Union (under Stalin) between 1928 and 1953," he says.

"That means people executed, arrested and sent to prison camps or turned into slave labourers or deported.

"Virtually every family was affected by repression."

"[size=4]What we have now [in Russia] effectively is the KGB in power[/size]," he adds.

"Opposition forces and awkward historians reminding the Russian population of what the KGB did 50 years ago is inconvenient for these people."

So it seems whoever is voted the country's greatest citizen on Sunday, it is Joseph Stalin who is the biggest winner this year as he is rehabilitated in Russia's brave new world.

news.bbc.co.uk...

Always beware of Communists trying to claim the worse dictators the world has ever known, are to them the "saviours of the Soviet Union, or some other country"...




[edit on 8-6-2009 by ElectricUniverse]

It's because no one cares. If it most happen this way, so be it. When Americans are poor and equally crap, while our former communist brethren are wealthy and successful, so be it. Then America must learn the hard way why they fail. So be it. Let the Russians and Chinese take our ways and become successful, and let us become the new USSR, fail-tastic and poor. The lesson must be learned, and it will be as that red and gold Chinese flag floats on the moon, and the good 'ol red white and blue sits on Mars.... This red white and blue of course!

reply to post by Gorman91

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Perhaps you don't care, but millions of other Americans do care, and btw did you fail to notice the information I gave about Russia going once again down the same old route of Communist dictatorship, and when did China become Capitalist? They are only using Capitalism so Communism stays afloat, but they are as repressive as always.

Perhaps you would love to see the U.S. become such a Communist dictatorship, but I have lived in one, and I would rather die than live on another, and despite the DHS labeling Americans who "fear Communism as possible terrorists" as they try to oppresse anyone who would dare fight what the U.S. is becoming, there are millions of Americans who once lived, and experienced such a Communist dictatorship before, and alongside the other millions of Americans that don't want to see the dissolution of the Republic, the New World Communist dictatorship, or United Socialist States of America will find themselves in the worse war they could ever imagine.

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