At a crossroads regarding spiritual belief

Hi there,

My family isn't religious, we don't believe or worship any God. Up until a few months ago, I believed that when we die, that's it, we don't remember anything past that we just black out.

After hearing about my Mother's OBE and studying them myself, also NDEs, I have become convinced that we don't actually die. The physical body does, but we "pop out" and move on to another realm or another life.

Here is a post made by horsegiver in an older thread about NDEs:

I have had several NDE's, and I can assure you that the human body is simply a vehicle, much like the the car you drive, but it isn't you.
When you die, you 'black out' momentarily,within a second, you will find yourself standing beside your 'body'.
The last time it happened to me, I was 'outside' my body looking back at it with a sense of complete indifference, as I was fully aware that I was in fact, a spiritual being having had a human expereience, and not a human being having a Spiritual experience.

Regards,

Horsegiver.

I think this describes the whole idea perfectly. This is what most people describe, finding themselves near the body when you are clinicly dead, i.e. no brain or heart function. I just finished watching a thought provoking documentary called The Day I Died, here it is if you want to watch it...



Now I have come to believe this is the truth to who we are. We are spiritual beings that inhabit a physical being while we exist on the physical plane, then when the body dies we move on, and find out who we are.

The problem I'm having is, all of the NDE reports I've read or watched describe a christian experience with God. Could this just be their interpretation of what is happening at the time?

Does the whole light tunnel experience only happen to people who believe in "heaven" and "god"? Because I don't follow a particular religion, will I miss out on this experience?

So what do I do? Is "spiritual" a type of religion? I know from watching that doco that some scientists and doctors are finding out that it's possible for the mind to exist outside the body. Maybe it's just the truth, and "death" is a big lie?

Should I just keep my current stance on the subject? i.e. no religion, but believing in spirits. Does that make sense? People have asked me how I can't believe in God, when I believe in spirits and life after death...



edit - can't get the damn YouTube vid to work.

[edit on 1/6/09 by dmorgan]

I used to believe as you did too until a few weeks ago....


www.abovetopsecret.com...


Since then I can 'see' signs of my pop everywhere. Sometimes I guess we just need 1 sign to open our eyes to the multi-verse around us.

A few years back I was defibulated 6 times... technically I was passed on for a few minutes. I did not see a white light, I saw a campfire. I am not exactly sure why tho. But it gave me comfort. So maybe we see what we want to see at that moment.

I believe in A god. So maybe thats how I have opened myself up to this. Maybe thats the direction you are moving towards as well.

♥ to you...
Dax

reply to post by ImzadiDax


Thanks for replying

I found some info that could explain why you saw a camp fire during your NDE, here it is:

When the body malfunctions or dies, the individual consciousness (person) returns to the spiritual dimension. At the time of arrival, he is still holding on to his physical belief system. This is where the re-orientation process begins. Here, the individual is met by trained "Border Guides" who aid in the orientation back into the spiritual dimension.

These Border Guides (Light Beings) will literally set up, or stage an environment that matches the expectations (belief system) of their arriving guest. They will call in friends, family and other important spiritual beings to help deliver whatever messages are necessary for this particular individual. This will enable them to communicate in surroundings that are comfortable to the person crossing over. From that point of the familiar and expected the orientation can proceed.

www.aleroy.com...

I have another question... there are reports of people dying and coming back to life a several hours or even days later. One man was struck by a car and pronounced dead, but he woke up on the autopsy table three days later. He had a typical NDE, but he was away for a long time.

Why do some people come back without resuscitation when they have clinically died? Aren't they allowed to proceed to the spirit world?

Most NDEs occur when someone dies on the hospital bed, but they're revived by medical staff and they return to the physical world. Why and how do some people come back without someone resuscitating their bodies?

Going a little bit off track but lots of questions

reply to post by dmorgan


That's pretty much was I was about to come on and say. As lots of different people have simular, but ultimatly slightly different experiences. I certainly think it's got somethign to do with what you expect to find. (so those who think that they might end up in hell, you might want to change your stance ) I was going to say that you create this, to suit you, not any of the guides. They just appear to you as you want them to. "over there" you are the one who litteraly controls your reality.

reply to post by Acidtastic


Interesting. And to me that matches up with the idea of fear manifesting when people have OBEs or astral project. If they are scared during the experience, a negative entity will manifest in front of them. That's not to say the whole thing is "made up", but a certain portion of it must relate to your thoughts.

That's what I think anyway, from what I've read.

Everything all ready is there on the other side ( so to speak)
and what ever is in our belief system will be attracted to or beliefs when the human body is unzipped and the spirit moves on
That is why Christian,Jewish, Buddhists, atheists, Hindu, Muslims, Pagans ..ect... Ect
All find their heavens

Funny thing is even atheist come back with a story to tell of their N.D.E

So believing in not believing such as an atheist

Does not seem to work either

Believing in hell and the devil can also bring this belief to you

So be careful in what you believe in

When it comes to hell there is enough hell created here with out looking for it in the after life

On the subject of spirituality
When a person begins their spiritual journey
It is a journey into discovering and understanding who they are and who a person is or thinks they are ..


The spiritual journey begins by examining and peeling away all the layers and beliefs of what.. "I"
as an individual self ...think "I am"

Sooner or later ..you (the self) will be left with ..what you are not .....!!!

The fear of death comes from the fear of losing this (self) identity

By understanding and knowing your self ...
this is the first step in removing such fears

After all death is just a dead body
and life is a beautiful sensual experience

The difference between what is called "life" and that which is called "death"
Is the sense of existence brought through all our physical sensations

And the purest of all sensations is that which is known as "love"

Hmmm now ...if you are going to believe in something
then you cannot go far wrong with love .......

reply to post by xsheep


Nice. The whole LOVE thing sounded really cheesy to me at first but everyone who has had an experience on the other side comes back saying that's what everything in existence is about.

Hell. I've read about a few negative NDEs where the experiencer was in a place they thought was hell. These people were all Christian funnily enough. And I really do believe that they created this reality because they were brought up with the belief that hell exists and you get judged when you die.

I don't know if you get judged or not, but I find the hell thing a bit hard to believe. I think the people who see this get scared and they think of hell straight away which then manifests in front of them.

Just speculation of my part though. I'm going to do some more web searching about some atheist experiences if I can find any.

I know i dont have long left to live and these stories are kind of comforting. I just hope my desire for something after this life doesn't cloud my judgement. In all honesty i believe death is the end. I really hope its not

dmorgan there's nothing wrong with being right where you are.

You don't need to be an athiest. You don't need to adopt other people's religious dogma.

Just stay where you are until you figure out what you do believe.

They call it spiritualism.

You know, when you think about it, that's just so sad, for the Christians to be seeing hell. That makes me very sad as a Christian for them, and for the negative effects of what I call "Churchianity".

Get of the darn road and make your own path. Break down every single road sign and set them on fire. Make up your own mind and let your critical thinkprocesses think about the truth of what people are saying and what you are experiencing, that way you should be ok to begin your travels into the unknown/unpopular but oh so rewarding.

[edit on 2-6-2009 by Harman]

It would make life far more interesting. I personaly hope you are right. Although im really really starting to doubt it.

Agreeing with most of the previous posters here, and from what I have heard from different experiences is that you basically manifest your own reality after death. Picture a system where your soul/quantum energy pattern/whatever you want to call it, comes to earth or wherever to learn. You grow up as a Christian, you die as a Christian. Immediately you are introduced to Christian archetypes, Jesus, etc...you reincarnate, and you keep reincarnating until you come to the point where you except the fact that we are just energy, and energy patterns vibrating on different frequencies.

That's just an example. It could be a system similar to that. Point being, you manifest what comes after death. Some people are so bent on going to hell, they end up going to a plane similar to hell, most likely one of the lower astrals.

I have heard in my travels that you experience what you expect to experience at that time. If you have a Christian expectation of it, you will experience that. Much like reality creation. That if you expect blackness and nothing you may experience that for a while as well. A sort of period of adjustment that doesn't involve trauma. But that eventually you move out of it. Even an extreme expectation of punishment and fire and brimstone could create that as well. But that the movement back to consciousness as a whole is inevitable.

I expect it to be quite a relief. I expect to feel better. I expect to not have the physical pain and restriction of a body. I expect to be greeted by the "people" that I have been begging for answers. I expect to get some answers. And I expect free counseling.

Originally posted by dmorgan

The problem I'm having is, all of the NDE reports I've read or watched describe a christian experience with God. Could this just be their interpretation of what is happening at the time?

Does the whole light tunnel experience only happen to people who believe in "heaven" and "god"? Because I don't follow a particular religion, will I miss out on this experience?

So what do I do? Is "spiritual" a type of religion? I know from watching that doco that some scientists and doctors are finding out that it's possible for the mind to exist outside the body. Maybe it's just the truth, and "death" is a big lie?

Should I just keep my current stance on the subject? i.e. no religion, but believing in spirits. Does that make sense? People have asked me how I can't believe in God, when I believe in spirits and life after death...



edit - can't get the damn YouTube vid to work.

[edit on 1/6/09 by dmorgan]

Personally, to me, the light at the end of the tunnel could be anything, we are the ones that give it meaning, some see there loved one's, some feel and overwhelming sense of love or feel truly welcomed. These are all just 'feelings' or emotions, impressions we get.

People who believe in Catholicism (as an example), will automatically assume it's god's love, and the 'light' is heaven.

For instance, A sense of 'Love' could be what all those people banging on about love energy is, to us it feels like love, but in reality, it really is just some type of energy, same as static energy makes your hair stand up.

Death is death, we give it meaning and purpose, I agree with you on all you've said, and like you, I found it on my own, it's always just sort of made sense to me.

As for changing your stance, why? Because your afraid to be thrown in with people of religion, or religious zealots? It will happen anyway, everytime I try to talk about my idea of God, people always assume I'm religious, it's ridiculous. RELIGION NEEDS A GOD, GOD DOES NOT NEED A RELIGION!!!

I must have said that so many times.

Point is, believe in what you want, walk your own path and if people don't like it, then they can just stick to their's, enjoy your life and every part of it, even death.

EMM

Excellent quote by the way.. You should (I hate using that word) put it in your sig.

Thank you all for your replies, I always read every message carefully. seagrass which quote are you talking about, horsegiver's or the other one?

ElectroMagnetic Multivers, it's good to know there are others in my position like yourself. People probably will toss me into the religious pile, but I will stick to what I know or believe to be truth. It's their loss that they don't understand what the universe is about. That sounds slightly arrogant but I've been fed up recently with all the usual sheeple who only care about what's on TV etc, stuff that is hardly important.

Unrelated, but I just had this weird experience reading these posts. I heard the sound of hammers hitting wood, like at a building site. Anyone playing Age of Empires? That construction sound of the hammer hitting wood. It sounded so real and it was inside my head, not out to the side like these sounds usually are.

Probably just because it's 5a.m.

[edit on 2/6/09 by dmorgan]

RELIGION NEEDS A GOD, GOD DOES NOT NEED A RELIGION!!!

that one. because it is true for me. Religion was a way we needed it seems at one time, but I think we are moving past that now. Change is hard to accept until a majority has as well.