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Air France Plane down

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posted on Jun, 3 2009 @ 02:08 AM
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reply to post by sy.gunson
 


ok i see...

with something like this its good to know all options have been thought of.. that way no one has to go back and say al quada hates brazil etc...

i like when things can be cleared up by science and constructive thought




posted on Jun, 3 2009 @ 02:09 AM
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reply to post by CloudySkye
 


Yep

No i totally agree..

Thats why i wanted all options to be discussed so at a later time we wont have to go back and deal with nonsense.. good call everyone



posted on Jun, 3 2009 @ 02:09 AM
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Have the names of the crew members been announced yet somewhere?



posted on Jun, 3 2009 @ 02:16 AM
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reply to post by sy.gunson
 


Yep, the Air France pilots probably made a bad call and its just what an colleague pilot imply in the comments to Air France Flight 447: A detailed meteorological analysis. (i posted it some pages ago here on ATS).


I am an Air France Captain, found your post very interesting and if true, will be hugely damaging for Air France.




[edit on 2009/6/3 by reugen]



posted on Jun, 3 2009 @ 02:16 AM
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No I think that the crew names are being with-held, probably to stop theit families receiving 228 families worth of griefstricken hate mail and then some, while they themselves are equally grieving.



posted on Jun, 3 2009 @ 02:17 AM
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I understood only about sixty something names were released and tAir France is not disclosing the Captain's name.

He has 11,000 flying hours which seems low to be in command of such a large aircraft.

This does raise the same questions raised by Air Colgan flight 3047 near Buffalo about the hiring of inexperienced pilots.

11,000 hours is not inexperienced, but it is low for such a large aircraft.



posted on Jun, 3 2009 @ 02:21 AM
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reply to post by sy.gunson
 


Infact from what I remember he had 11000 hours but only 1600 on relevant A330/340 aircraft. His co-pilot had more relevant A330/340 hours than him 2000 of 6000 total floght hours, while the other had 3000 total with just 800 on A330/340 relevant craft.



posted on Jun, 3 2009 @ 02:27 AM
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Originally posted by CloudySkye
reply to post by sy.gunson
 


Infact from what I remember he had 11000 hours but only 1600 on relevant A330/340 aircraft. His co-pilot had more relevant A330/340 hours than him 2000 of 6000 total floght hours, while the other had 3000 total with just 800 on A330/340 relevant craft.


That is really risky business, as i said in an earlier post, i will never fly with air france ever, their response to this accident is also very bad indeed, trying to cover up and keeping a lid on.



posted on Jun, 3 2009 @ 02:50 AM
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Press release N° 7
Flight deck crew



Flight Captain:

· French
· 58 years old
· Entered Air France in 1988
· Qualified on Airbus A330/A340 in February 2007
· 11,000 flight hours, including 1,700 on Airbus A330/A340
2 co-pilots:

· French
· 37 and 32 years old
· Entered Air France in 1999 and 2004
· Qualified on Airbus A330/A340 in April 2002 and June 2008
· 6,600 flight hours, including 2,600 on Airbus A330/A340
· 3,000 flight hours, including 800 on Airbus A330/A340
Cabin crew



Chief purser:

· French
· 49 years old
· Entered Air France in 1985
2 pursers:

· French
· 54 and 46 years old
· Entered Air France in 1981 and 1989
6 stewards and stewardesses:

· 5 French and 1 Brazilian
· Between 24 and 44 years old
· Entered Air France in 1996 and 2007


alphasite.airfrance.com...



posted on Jun, 3 2009 @ 03:02 AM
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abnormal alternate law was being used at the last tranmission


ABNORMAL ALTERNATE LAW
Abnormal Alternate Law is activated if the airplane enters an unusual attitude, allowing recovery from the unusual attitude.
Pitch law becomes Alternate (without autotrim or protection other than Load Factor protection).
Roll law becomes Direct law with mechanical yaw control.
After recovery from the unusual attitude, the following laws are active for the remainder of the flight:
Pitch: Alternate law without protections and with autotrim.
Roll: Direct law
Yaw: Alternate law
There is no reversion to Direct law when the landing gear is extended.


www.airbusdriver.net...


and


ACARS mode: 2 Aircraft reg: F-GZCP [Airbus A332]
Message label: _ Block id: 0 Msg no: S72A
Flight id: AF0447 [GIG-CDG] [Air France]
----------------------------------------------------------[ 01/06/2009 00:53 ]-

ACARS mode: R Aircraft reg: F-GZCP [Airbus A332]
Message label: 2F Block id: 0 Msg no: M14A
Flight id: AF0444 [CDG-GIG] [Air France]
Message content:-
#0936/+47.31-001.30
----------------------------------------------------------[ 31/05/2009 11:36 ]-


those are 2 of the ACARS messages - since they broadcast `in the clear` you can bet someone , soemehwre has them..



posted on Jun, 3 2009 @ 03:30 AM
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reply to post by sy.gunson
 


11,000 hours is tons - and pretty much average for heavies. People are getting hired by regionals with close to 200 hours however which is absurd.

[edit on 3/6/2009 by C0bzz]



posted on Jun, 3 2009 @ 03:38 AM
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reply to post by C0bzz
 


Yes that is true, but these large airbus has been in traffic since beginning of 1990s and this was a long-haul flight which i assume require very good experience. However you have to get those hours somewhere and start somewhere, he had very good experience in total but perhaps not the airbus model and this specific route.



posted on Jun, 3 2009 @ 04:25 AM
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Twenty years ago CObzz a 747 captain would be a 20,000 veteran or close to that.

Long haul is very different from driving a little bus around Europe.

It's not about the total time. It's about the accumulation of relevant experience and the judgment which one forms. If his total time long haul was just 1,700hrs then that was low relevant to the role he was in.

In any case if he was a 20 hour student pilot flying into a thunderstorm you would question his judgment. This guy slammed 288 lives into a towering CB.



posted on Jun, 3 2009 @ 05:01 AM
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Originally posted by sy.gunson
SNIP This guy slammed 288 lives into a towering CB.


Hi, I know you have put a lot of effort and posted some great research into this incident but I think your last statement is a little presumptuous.

I'd like to point out that no pilot in their right mind would knowingly slam into towering CB.
I am not disputing the possibility - In fact I think its highly likely what happened but your implication the pilot did it knowingly I seriously doubt for several reasons.
1. As above no sane pilot would do so.
2. It was dark they would likely be visually avoiding signs of lightning.
3. There is real evidence of electronic failure, is it possible weather radar was in-opperable.
4. At the flight levels of this incident liquid water - not even super cooled can exist. Radar reflects off water droplets. Therefore they may not of been able to detect the significance of the weather at that particular moment. Weather radar is reliant on returns from lower altitude water detected due too the radar beam width.

Remember things are happening very very quickly. If I recall correctly they were traveling upwards of 450knots. That equates to 759 feet per second. Or 7.8 Nautical miles (14.5km) in one minute. Some storm system cells aren't even that big, many are much larger.
I just want to point out that at the speed were talking about compounded by the limitations of weather radar plus being at night you could have placed your aircraft in the depths of hell before you even knew it.



posted on Jun, 3 2009 @ 05:09 AM
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looking at the relevenat weather data from the time and area , there were 3 thuderstorms and he went into the 3rd (and apparantly most violent of them)


yes a lufthansa frieght flight was ahead of them by 30 mins - but what if they were trying to cut through the converging storms? i`m pretty sure thats what a dc-10 flight in the usa was trying to do and didn`t make it - so AF447 was `racing a gap` , reported turbulence at 02.10z

if they were fighting for control in a rollercoaster , then the last thing would be to send a transmission , ACARS or otherwise.

[edit on 3/6/09 by Harlequin]



posted on Jun, 3 2009 @ 05:29 AM
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Days before the crash, the very same machine was object in a bombthread scenario, fox news has learned.

digg.com...



posted on Jun, 3 2009 @ 05:43 AM
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Your dig links goes to fox news article about Microsoft and Porn...



posted on Jun, 3 2009 @ 05:48 AM
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About the blackbox.

Isnt possible to stream the data directly to the ground instead of holding it bakc in a stupid box that most of the time get realy damaged that they cant get its full content ? This when they find it.



posted on Jun, 3 2009 @ 05:54 AM
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reply to post by who-me?
 


Gunson probably meant that the pilot acted careless and did not take the proper means to manouver around the storm and CB cloud formations, that he did take a huge risk by trying to fly straight through it.

The digg link should be this one:
Air France Bomb Threat Before Flight 447 Crash
www.foxnews.com...



posted on Jun, 3 2009 @ 06:43 AM
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Originally posted by Krpano
About the blackbox.

Isnt possible to stream the data directly to the ground instead of holding it bakc in a stupid box that most of the time get realy damaged that they cant get its full content ? This when they find it.


When you consider how many planes are in the air at any given time, and also how many of them are not over the ground (ie ocean), I just don't think this is practical.

But I'm sure there are others more qualified who can clarify this.



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