It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

Air France Plane down

page: 27
56
<< 24  25  26    28  29  30 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Jun, 2 2009 @ 07:25 PM
link   

Originally posted by missvicky
reply to post by trusername
 


yep.......and was also wondering how nirmal it would be to haul oil drums on a jet passenger plane?? And how do they know what kerosene looks like on the water as opposed to jet fuel? Why would there be kerosene?
Sorry to appear obssesive about this but it stood out to me and made me do this:


And I hate doing
because all those dancing ??? tickle my head

[edit on 2-6-2009 by missvicky]


I've seen oil drums being loaded into the cargo hold of a passenger plane before. You've got to remember that they also carry goods as well as passengers. . . And as for how they knew whether the drum contained kerosene or not! The answer is simple, they would simply check the planes cargo manifest to see what it was carrying.




posted on Jun, 2 2009 @ 07:28 PM
link   
reply to post by Mintwithahole.
 


Well that makes sense to check the manifest. Still makes no sense to ship oil by the drum paying air freight.....even if it isn't unusual.



posted on Jun, 2 2009 @ 07:30 PM
link   
The aircraft people can add more detail but commercial jet fuel is basically kerosene.. Could be the observers just used the term indicating a sighting of what appeared to be light material as fuel (versus heavy oil slick or such). Doubt anyone sampled it to know positively at that time.



posted on Jun, 2 2009 @ 08:47 PM
link   
reply to post by missvicky
I agree that's odd. Why haul fuel in drums? Don't they have pipelines or ships to do that?

If lightening hit the plane I wonder if a lightening bolt went through the plane and detonated one of these fuel drums like a firecracker, or at least that may end up being the official explanation.

There have been reports of ball lightening entering planes and scaring the heck out of the passengers. Perhaps a ball lighting floated into one of these drums-

Kablooey time.



[edit on 2-6-2009 by star in a jar]



posted on Jun, 2 2009 @ 09:09 PM
link   
A drum would not have to be holding fuel. Many liquids are shipped in drums.



posted on Jun, 2 2009 @ 09:16 PM
link   
If the plane happen to be containing kerosene drums, the passengers are gonna sue air france like f***.

Arent cargo planes used for carrying cargo and passenger planes used for carrying passengers


BTW, I got a question about the doors in flight. Is it possible for a person to MANUALLY open them in an emergency (aka bypassing the safety locks )?



posted on Jun, 2 2009 @ 09:18 PM
link   

Originally posted by Agit8dChop
Tragic, thoughts go out to all.
But one has to say, very odd for them to vanish without a distress, sos, mayday...

I wonder what the last few transmissions were?

I wonder who was on the plane?


The way I heard it is the plane's computer sent a text message stating an electric system malfunction and a loss of cabin pressure. When flight controls tried to contact the crew about the text message they did not get a reply and then the plane dropped off radar



posted on Jun, 2 2009 @ 09:33 PM
link   
For the record:

Kerosene is jet fuel. Different grades of kerosene are used as fuel for different types of turbine engines, so the presence of kerosene in a plane wreck would be expected.

As for the oil drums, nothing particularly unusual about that.



posted on Jun, 2 2009 @ 09:41 PM
link   
why do they say they may never find the black box. we can put gps on cell phones, gps in peoples cars, but we cant find a way to make a freaking black box impossible to lose?



posted on Jun, 2 2009 @ 09:44 PM
link   
reply to post by wrangell76
 


Far be it from me to feed your conspiracy theory but I did notice that there where a lot of people who probably normally wouldn't be flying in cheap coach seats on this flight. Lots of CEO types on that flight, not to mention a prince? The real question is... How many first class seats are available in that type of plane? Sorry, couldn't help myself.



posted on Jun, 2 2009 @ 09:58 PM
link   

Originally posted by Sundancer
reply to post by wrangell76
 


Far be it from me to feed your conspiracy theory but I did notice that there where a lot of people who probably normally wouldn't be flying in cheap coach seats on this flight. Lots of CEO types on that flight, not to mention a prince? The real question is... How many first class seats are available in that type of plane? Sorry, couldn't help myself.



No first class on that aircraft of Air France, just Business Class (the new first class you could say) and Economy Class (like most airlines now)

That particular Air France air craft is fitted with 40 business class seats (lie flat ones) – it’s called “Affaires Class” and the remaining was 179 economy seats “Tempo Class”

Here is the seat map.

Air France Seat Map A330

And I wouldn’t call the guy a “Prince” as such, he was Prince Pedro Luís of Orléans-Bragança, third in line of succession to the EXTINCT throne of Brazil who lives in Luxembourg and works in a bank. It's not like he is the equivalent to Prince Charles or something.

Mikey


[edit on 2/6/2009 by Mikey84]



posted on Jun, 2 2009 @ 10:26 PM
link   

Originally posted by Mikey84

Originally posted by maxweljames

Obviously though, the deeper the transmitter is in water, the weaker the signal, the closer the search crews will need to be to locate it.

[edit on 2-6-2009 by maxweljames]


How deep will the signal still work though?

The Senegal Government is saying that they have found some wreckage in their waters and that they believe that most of the plane is now at the bottom of the sea, the area they say it is in is at least 4,000 meters.

That’s pretty deep, could the signal still work that far down?

Mikey


[edit on 2/6/2009 by Mikey84]


Specifications

Flight Data Recorder
Time recorded 25 hour continuous
Number of parameters 18 - 1000+
Impact tolerance 3400Gs / 6.5 ms
Fire resistance 1100 degC / 30 min
Water pressure resistance submerged 20,000 ft
Underwater locator beacon 37.5 KHz; battery has shelf life of 6 years or more, with 30-day operation capability upon activation


Cockpit Voice Recorder
Time recorded 30 min continuous, 2 hours for solid state digital units
Number of channels 4
Impact tolerance 3400Gs / 6.5 ms
Fire resistance 1100 degC / 30 min
Water pressure resistance submerged 20,000 ft
Underwater locator beacon 37.5 KHz; battery has shelf life of 6 years or more, with 30-day operation capability upon activation

These are the specs taken directly from the NTSB website, this would only apply to US registered aircraft, but I can safely say that there are only a few manufactures of these units and they are all sold worldwide. Therefore a European registered aircraft will have either the same requirements or stricter.
NTSB website link for CVR and FDR info.



posted on Jun, 2 2009 @ 10:46 PM
link   
From AP... Pilot comments on flying into thunderstorms...

hosted.ap.org...

"The cause of the crash will not be known until the black boxes are recovered - which could take days or weeks. But weather and aviation experts are focusing on the possibility of a collision with a brutal storm that sent winds of 100 mph straight into the airliner's path.

"The airplane was flying at 500 mph northeast and the air is coming at them at 100 mph," said AccuWeather.com expert senior meteorologist Henry Margusity. "That probably started the process that ended up in some catastrophic failure of the airplane."

Towering Atlantic storms are common this time of year near the equator - an area known as the intertropical convergence zone. "That's where the northeast trade winds meet the southeast trade winds - its the meeting place of the southern hemisphere and the northern hemisphere's weather," said Margusity.

But several veteran pilots of big airliners said it was extremely unlikely that Flight 447's crew intended to punch through a killer storm.

"Nobody in their right mind would ever go through a thunderstorm" said Tim Meldahl, a captain for a major U.S. airline who has flown internationally for 26 years, including more than 3,000 hours on the same A330 jetliner.

Pilots often work their way through bands of storms, watching for lightning flashing through clouds ahead and maneuvering around them, he said.

"They may have been sitting there thinking we can weave our way through this stuff," Meldahl said. "If they were trying to lace their way in and out of these things, they could have been caught by an updraft."



posted on Jun, 2 2009 @ 11:03 PM
link   
Didn't see this in here yet:

This is from May 27th. The article is short, I'll quote it.

Bomb Threat Against Air France




The airport safety delayed an Air France flight this evening before departring for Paris immediately after the company received a bomb threat over the phone at the airport of Ezeiza.

The Federal Police, along the Firemen’s direction and the Airport’s Safety proceeded to inspect the plane, that arrived this morning from the French city and, after a brief stop, it was preparing to return.

The routine procedure lasted approximately one hour and a half and, as sources of the airport reported all the passengers are ok and they were not evacuated.



posted on Jun, 2 2009 @ 11:46 PM
link   
Did it hit another plane?


Did Flight 447 hit a plane? Debris is found on doomed jet's route


A former Air France pilot said the aircraft might have hit a military jet or a plane used by drug smugglers.

‘Anything could have happened. Maybe a collision with another aircraft, maybe a military aircraft, maybe a drugs-smuggling aircraft which nobody reports missing,’ said Cedric Maniez.

Herve Morin, France’s defence minister, admitted last night there was ‘no evidence whatsoever’.

He added: ‘We cannot, by definition, exclude a terrorist attack, because terrorism is the main threat for all Western democracies.’

Please visit the link provided for the complete story.


And then there's the bomb threat that was made against Air France on May 27. Original article from May 27 here (works only occasionally) - Google's cache here.



posted on Jun, 3 2009 @ 12:20 AM
link   
www.weathergraphics.com..." target="_blank" class="postlink" rel="nofollow">Thundercloud penetrated by 447

The flash chart in orange on this page explains everything. There is no more mystery.

When you fly into a thunderstorm cloud at 453 knots it's like slamming into a brick building. The problem is solved - at least unofficially

Air France and crash investigators wont admit it for another 18 months for legal reasons. The aircraft was ripped apart by turbulence becuse the pilot would not use his weather radar to fly around the storm cell.



posted on Jun, 3 2009 @ 12:30 AM
link   
reply to post by sy.gunson
 


Nice explanation..

I think you cleared that up nicely on the short term

So what you are saying is Airbus manufacturer doesnt want to come out and say this on the short term until they cross their t's and dot their i's... could be also b/c all planes would have to be taken off the market, at least on the short term?



posted on Jun, 3 2009 @ 12:32 AM
link   

Originally posted by Mintwithahole.
reply to post by weedwhacker
 


The doors on a big jet can be opened while in flight. It's actually happened to a plane which was featured on Aircrash Investiagtion. An electrical short tripped the switch which then released the locks on the luggage compartment door. The plane then depressurised literally tearing the plane apart in seconds.



No, the problem was the lock was not strong enough meaning that IF their was a short circuit it would easily overpower the lock. It was fixed.


Well that makes sense to check the manifest. Still makes no sense to ship oil by the drum paying air freight.....even if it isn't unusual.

Maybe it wasn't OIL but something else in an oil drum?


BTW, I got a question about the doors in flight. Is it possible for a person to MANUALLY open them in an emergency (aka bypassing the safety locks )?

No, unless they have beyond super human strength.


why do they say they may never find the black box. we can put gps on cell phones, gps in peoples cars, but we cant find a way to make a freaking black box impossible to lose?

GPS is passive, they don't emit signals. Also, GPS wouldn't be receivable if it were a few kilometres deep under water.


A former Air France pilot said the aircraft might have hit a military jet or a plane used by drug smugglers.

Drug smugglers don't usually have jets that fly at FL350.


reply to post by sy.gunson
 


Your link is dead.

www.weathergraphics.com...

IS that the right one?

Also, the Flight Management Computer in all new aircraft has a offset function where the route can be offset by xx miles, left or right. To get around the storm it would of needed an offset of a few hundred miles, so probably weather brought it down.

Flight 190, heading from Victoria to Toronto,

www.democraticunderground.com...

Had AHRS problems are turbulence, so maybe that explains the electrical failures.

[edit on 3/6/2009 by C0bzz]



posted on Jun, 3 2009 @ 01:07 AM
link   
reply to post by GreenBicMan
 


Thats not what he said at all, its not even Airbus's call. IThe same would have happened to any aircraft, it just happened to be an Airbus in this case.



posted on Jun, 3 2009 @ 01:20 AM
link   
reply to post by CloudySkye
 


i c

I know nothing of aeronautics



new topics

top topics



 
56
<< 24  25  26    28  29  30 >>

log in

join