Air France Plane down

reply to post by asala


Also why don't we have special parachutes just incase, where the pilot has full control over them. And maybe blow up boats incase you land in the sea and don't want to freeze. Hmm there is always things we can do to improve sfety, especially with communication.

When are they going to post the names of the pilots and staff involved? (a nymber of AF friends which Ive been trying to contact)

What a weird accident....

Originally posted by Harlequin
just going by the ACARS information - the last (and final) transmission was of electrical and pressurisation problems - which says to be its reporting a critical failure.

Rapid decompression? 30 - 60 seconds useful conciousness at 35 000 ft.

Reminds me of the old saying which notes that 3 things kill pilots:

Weather, weather, and weather.

reply to post by _Phoenix_



I wish it was possible, I for one would be a lot more happy about flying! but the truth of it is it would not work,

If we where in a plane that was crashing and we jumped out we would be crushed by the speed, so it would make no difference, also at a great hight the air would be to thin for us thus ending in death.

Planes do however carry emergancy pods in case of impact in water and people get out, We seen this with the Hudson river crash.
death
I think if there where ways available they would put them in to practice,



[edit on 1-6-2009 by asala]

Originally posted by solidshot


Doesn't look good makes you wonder if the recession is having an impact on the maintenance of the aircraft given the numbers of crashes we are seeing lately?

Sorry but thats one of the worst comments i have read on this board! aircraft safety isnt something people take lightly even in a recession, seriously ignorant remark.

Assuming the aircraft hit the water, recovery will not be easy. The Atlantic varies in depth from around 8000 - 25 000 feet. Mid atlantic ridge with various trenches in the area.

reply to post by sy.gunson


SY.....isn't quite that dramatic. At altitude, isn't quite the hair's breath fine line you make it out to be.

But, since we don't know much yet, any speculation is just that.

BTW, a total electrical failure would be extremely rare for a modern jet, such as an Airbus. AND, regardless....the standby instruments operate off of the Battery, and the Inverter. AND an airplane equipped for ETOPS (If it was a twin-jet) won't be dispatched with an inop APU or generator....at least, not a US airline, anyway......

reply to post by weedwhacker


wouldn`t happen with AF either - they value saftey as much as US arilines do - this isn`t one of the `stan held together by shoe string airlines

reply to post by _Phoenix_


I have to second what asala said....parachutes are simply not a viable option.

Do you know how to put one on??? How to operate it??? How to land safely??

No, best thing is to improve airplane technology....I'm posting having just noticed this thread, so apologies for coming in late, haven't read all 10 pages yet. This was my disclaimer.....

reply to post by putiplot

But I am thinking this could be a human error as well. Sleepy, suicidal or drunk pilot...

I am rather offended by that sentence. I've spent the majority of my life working in the airline industry.

If you know anything about how crews are scheduled, you would not have written that. Can explain in greater detail, but others know, I am sure.

I shudder when I hear about major disasters such as this....the human tragedy is tremendous.

List of passengers of the Air France flight will not be divulged by Anac


RIO - Contrary to what has been informed previously by the National Agency of Civil Aviation (Anac) itself , Anac will not divulge the passenger and crew list of flight 477 from Air France. According to the organ , the responsability of the divulgation is of the air company.

The Federal Police is checking the nationality of the passengers. Next , this list will be repassed to Anac , which needs to aprove it. Only then will it go to Air France , for divulgation.

Lista de passageiros do voo da Air France não será divulgada pela Anac



oglobo.globo.com...
(you can consider this the MSM of Brazil)



And according to this www.portaldasnoticias.com... site there is already an unofficial list , with just a few names on it :

* Luiz Roberto Anastácio
* Antonio Gueiros
* Christin Pieraerts
* Marcelo Parente
* Marco Mendonça
* Rino Zandonai
* Giovanni Lenzi
* Luigi Zortea
* Erich Heine
* Nelson Marinho Filho
* Pedro Luís de Orleans e Bragança
* Harald Maximillian Winner
* Roberto Corrêa Chem
* Vera Chem
* Letícia Chem
* Adriana Francisco Sluijs
* Deise Possamai
* Silvio Barbato



Phones for information :

(21) 3212 1806
0800 881 2020

0800 800 812


The 2 first numbers are for residents in Brazil , the last one is for people in France.

Still , if you want to call Brazil all you have to add is +55 to the 21 , the first is for the country and the second is for the state of Rio.


[edit on 1-6-2009 by Roufas]

[edit on 1-6-2009 by Roufas]

the `old` coffin corner - the height where the speed of sound is coming down the clocks and your stall speed is coming up fast - ever notice why no one flies about FL400? thats because the speed of sound is alot lower than at sea level ;

at sea level the speed of sound is 761 mph

at 20000 feet mach 1 is around 706 mph or 613 knots

at 40,000 its 660 mph or 570 knots

now a boeing 747 will cruise at 35000 @ 500 knots , so if it was to climb to over FL400 would be very much in the transonic bubble.

reply to post by Harlequin


I know.....I regretted writing that as it flipped off of my fingers.

These pilots are well-trained, and I know this (I trained in Toulouse, on the A-300....back in the day, when I was a little less long-of-tooth....I'm talking about 1986, here...but, enough about me...)

I am staying glued to this story, since it is unimaginable, to me. Modern jets are so well-designed, and have so many reduncacies for safety's sake.

I personally know of a crew, at my airline....dispatched in a B757, with one generator inop (It was 'domestic'...except it was SEA to ANC....which isn't 'domestic' in my book....I would have refused the airplane....at night, in Alaska....)

Anyway, the APU crapped out (low oil pressure) and they were left with only Standby Power....the other generator should have had no problem picking up the load, but it didn't. Captain had his hand on the APU 'START' switch the whole time....they diverted to Ketchican. The APU started while they were on final. So, they had lights, hydraulics and just about everything....just in time.

(StandBy Power, from the batteries and the inverter....only required to last, per regulations...for 30 minutes. It is a true emergency situation, if that's all you have....)

hot damn they were lucky :O


weed - go to PPRUNE , those boys really are talking shop - and when they say ACARS and SATCOM then it makes me listen. many weather charts are up , and someone posted who has flown that route today as well.

I tried to imagine the scene and asked in my mind for some co-ordinates and I wrote them - the first numbers that popped into my head, opened google earth and here is the result:




I feel really shocked about this incident and my thoughts are with the families of those on the missing plane.

[edit on 1-6-2009 by blackhatchet]

Originally posted by sy.gunson
It took four hours for Air France to disclose it's disappearance and that came an hour after it failed to land.

It went down without broadcasting a mayday so whatever happened was very sudden. Either catastrophic break up or else pilots were so busy fighting to keep control they had no time for a mayday call.

I would speculate either a catastrophic decompression, terrorist bomb, or else a failure of electrical systems in darkness. It was an early morning flight wasn't it?

Anyone know which type of Airbus aircraft ?

Yet again, another Airbus...........they have a poor safety history....

[edit on 1-6-2009 by aero56]

Originally posted by weedwhackerModern jets are so well-designed, and have so many reduncacies for safety's sake

And since we're talking about A330 (and APU's) here, due to ETOPS the APU will autostart if any engine driven gen drops of bus at any FL since the APU on the 330 have no start limitations due to altitude.
(Same story on the triple seven)

So if all electics was lost at once something catastrophic must have happend.

A french pilot just told to the media that a bomb may have exploded the plane.

sorry the article is in french.

www.lefigaro.fr...


As he said there is 5 electrical source in a plane and when this 5 electrical source are down a battery take the relay so the plane is still operational, a lighting could not be the source of all this or it will be the first time in the plane history that a lightning incapacitated or even destroy a plane

And at the last questions "You are speaking about an explosion, do you think a terrorist attack could cause an electric failure?"

He answered "Absolutely, we may very well imagine that a bomb had provoked a Depressurisation(is that word right?) of the craft and then it took time to the plane to disintegrated itself piece by piece. It even can be a huge bomb that explode the entire craft what could explain why the commandant did not send a maday call.



I tried to translate the most interesting part of the article, so we still don't know what happened and a french pilot says it could be a terrorist attack, I don't know why but it seems like the government is trying to hide something.


Sorry for my bad english but you can sill correct me

[edit on 1-6-2009 by ufopunx]

is there still no news on how it happeneed and if they have found the plane?