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Alcohol injection makes autos more climate-friendly, more efficient

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posted on May, 31 2009 @ 05:00 PM
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Alcohol injection makes autos more climate-friendly, more efficient


www.newscientist.com

Giving an engine a shot of ethanol could make it as fuel-efficient as a gas-electric hybrid.
Ford Motor Company on 19 May revealed test results on a novel ethanol-assisted engine. The engine runs primarily on gas. When it needs to deliver maximum power the engine management computer adds ethanol to the combustion chambers.
Obama says consumers may have to pay $1300 per vehicle to get to his proposed standards. Ford says its ethanol-assisted engine will cost $1100 to $1500 more.
(visit the link for the full news article)



[edit on 31-5-2009 by jdub297]

[edit on 31-5-2009 by jdub297]




posted on May, 31 2009 @ 05:00 PM
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Let's see.

Obama commits $60 billion to GM and it might survive bankruptcy to import Chinese micro-cars, but he gets to own and control it.
Obama commits $15 billion to Chrysler, gives most of it to the UAW and FIAT, and he gets to own and control it.

Obama gives nothing to Ford, but they lead the world in producing fuel-efficient, minimally polluting cars.

Why doesn't the US give some money to the US car-makers that know what they are doing?


"You can't come close to Obama's projected price with a hybrid," says David Cole of the Center for Automotive Research, a transport analysis company in Ann Arbor, Michigan. "With alcohol injection you've got a great shot at it; it's a very viable technology."


www.newscientist.com
(visit the link for the full news article)

jw



[edit on 31-5-2009 by jdub297]


MBF

posted on May, 31 2009 @ 10:25 PM
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I think that Ford has a lot of experience with alcohol from their work in Brazil. If this country was as smart as Brazil, we would be energy independent just like them. I think that one of the problems in this country is that alcohol is more efficient with a higher combustion ratio engine than most cars here have.

The auto manufacturers are going to have to learn to produce automobiles that we need instead of trying to produce the largest and most expensive that they can build.



posted on May, 31 2009 @ 10:40 PM
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reply to post by MBF
 


From what I've read, a 40-gallon ethanol tank will provide enough "enhancement" that the engine can run 29,000 km at more efficient higher compression without pre-ignition ("knocking") when needed, and run normally under ordinary conditions.

Tests so far show 23 to 25% increase in power (or a 23 to 25% reduction in consumption and emissions) with modifications at or below what Obama estimates it will cost to reach his 2016 CAFE standards.

jw

[edit on 31-5-2009 by jdub297]


MBF

posted on May, 31 2009 @ 11:32 PM
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reply to post by jdub297
 


I can agree with that. The ignition temp of alcohol is 689F where gasoline is 536F, therefore, there would be less knock.

I know that there has been problems with the use of alcohol, but they are mostly from the materials used in the system that comes in contact with the alcohol which can be easily solved.

I've felt that for several years now, we could produce engines with higher combustion ratios without the knock that there has been in the past because of the advances in electronics. The only problem would be the production of oxides of nitrogen.



posted on May, 31 2009 @ 11:45 PM
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reply to post by MBF
 


If we'd spend the money on advancing innovation instead of taking over dinosaurs, we might get the results Obama says he wants, and which everyone concerned about conservation and the environment will agree upon.

Tweaking what we know and making it work more efficiently is where we should focus. ( Asuming the goal really is efficiency and clean emissions)

jw



posted on May, 31 2009 @ 11:54 PM
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It hasn't taken that long for major industrials and manufacturers to come around to find out how to profit from 'climate change.'

"The Climate-Industrial Complex"
www.abovetopsecret.com...

Maybe now, they'll focus on conservation and efficiency as well.

jw


MBF

posted on Jun, 1 2009 @ 12:10 AM
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Originally posted by jdub297
reply to post by MBF
 


If we'd spend the money on advancing innovation instead of taking over dinosaurs, we might get the results Obama says he wants, and which everyone concerned about conservation and the environment will agree upon.

Tweaking what we know and making it work more efficiently is where we should focus. ( Asuming the goal really is efficiency and clean emissions)

jw


EXACTLY!!!

The problem is that the auto companies are so arrogant and self centered. A few years ago, a friend and I got a patent for my invention that would prevent pitting in wet sleeve engines. Every diesel mechanic will tell that it is a huge problem. The companies told us that if the problem could be solved that their engineers would have already solved it and they were not interested. The only companies that were interested were foreign companies. The reason that I could not sell it to them is that I didn't have huge amounts of money to run tests. We did test it and it worked great. The closest that we got was with Caterpillar. We had a meeting set up with the head of engineering. The meeting was stopped when the legal department found out about it because they were not informed first. The head of engineering said that they cut the funding for his tests and would not let him test it. He said that it sounded like a great idea that would increase the life of the engines.



posted on Jun, 1 2009 @ 12:11 AM
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The hot set up that I recently read about is called on demand ethanol/water injection. It is activated by a super sensitive knock detector that triggers injection of the mixture just prior to pre ignition directly into the combustion chamber.... It allows ridiculous compression ratios and ignition timing advance settings using an extremely small amount of ethanol ( 2 gallons per 10000 miles w/50% water) and can also use wind shield washer fluid (water methanol) This system is suppose to not burden the food supply as much as running on 100% ethanol and is a means of conserving fossil fuels.



posted on Jun, 1 2009 @ 10:17 AM
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reply to post by hypervigilant
 


That's exactly what Ford's got lined up. 40 gals of ethanol reserve lasts 20k miles (not sure I'd want to keep that much for that long,though). Tests are now into run-dry trials to eliminate adverse impacts from running out of ETOH.

You'd think BHO would want to throw a couple of dollars at this, but since he can't own or control them, he's not interested!

Shows where his priorities are and the true agenda.

jw



posted on Jun, 1 2009 @ 10:29 AM
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Alcohol injection has been around for quite some time. Alcohol injection is used very often on the race track to almost double the horsepower output of a combustion and even forced induction motors.

The only problem with alcohol injection is it is corrosive and significantly reduces the life the engine itself. An engine that would normally last 200,000 miles, would be reduced to mush in only 50,000 miles.



posted on Jun, 1 2009 @ 10:41 AM
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reply to post by Choronzon
 


Apparently, Ford has overcome this obstacle as they are nearing roll-out and are in advance testing phases.

There has to have been significqant modification of the engine to accomodate the higher compression and corrosion problem.

Shouldn't the BHO administration be helping this, instead of trying to run GM and Chrysler deeper into the ground?

jw



posted on Jun, 1 2009 @ 10:45 AM
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Um... hello...

Aircraft manufacturers started doing this in the 1930s to improve the power and efficiency of fighter airplanes.

Lavochkin and Focke-Wulfe, among others, used water-alcohol injection to cool cylinder heads and increase power up to 22%.

Also, we already have ethanol-boosted fuel. It's called E85. Virtually the entire fleet of GM cars in Brazil run on ethanol fuel produced from sugar cane.

The next thing Obama will claim is that he invented the Internet.

And pants.



posted on Jun, 1 2009 @ 11:10 AM
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Originally posted by emsed1
Um... hello...

Also, we already have ethanol-boosted fuel. It's called E85. Virtually the entire fleet of GM cars in Brazil run on ethanol fuel produced from sugar cane.


This is NOT ethanol enhanced fuel. It is ETOH-enhanced combustion.

This also results in increased efficiency, lower emissions.

E85 is a fuel mixture for constant use. ETOH enhancement is 'on-demand' injection of ETOH to boost power when needed.

It is different and coming along, but could use support.

jw



posted on Jun, 2 2009 @ 11:27 AM
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this is great news but why would they put it on a pickup truck first?! isn't the goal to have smaller engines in regular cars to reduce overall consumption? 25% less gasoline usage means that you break even on the $1500 in a couple of years of normal driving and the price of the ethanol is not that much considering how little you need. you can probably refill that when you're checking the fluids once in a while...

i hope this is a realistic sub-$20k alternative to the hybrids that cost $40k or so... how many drivers can actually afford to buy a $40K car anyway
the savings are minimal in fuel costs so unless you're a green treehugger and want to make a point with the "Hybrid" logo you won't own one.



Whitaker says the next step is to road test the engine in a variety of vehicles and to ensure that the engine does not become unusable if the ethanol tank runs dry.


yeah because when the car runs out of engine oil or gasoline it's still very much usable
that's why you have the "low fuel" light duh!



posted on Jun, 2 2009 @ 12:18 PM
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reply to post by DarkSecret
 


Although Ford has attempted to compete in the hybrid market and with small cars, their biggest sales have been trucks, led by the F-150.

It makes sense that they would focus on their volume leader in any efforts to meet Obama's new CAFE and emissions standards for 2016.

jw



posted on Jun, 2 2009 @ 12:39 PM
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Water injection for desiel works the same way, The only problem is that trucks work in so many different temperature gradients that keeping the water from freezing is a problem. You can't use alcohol in with the water unfortunatly so it only works in warm weather climates.
Zindo



posted on Jun, 2 2009 @ 12:55 PM
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reply to post by ZindoDoone
 


These are the alternatives Obama's Energy Dept. and EPA should be steering money to.

We can get results right now, instead of enriching special interests who provide no help in efficiency or emissions.

What have we got to show for $75 billion given to GM and Fiat/Chrysler?

New CAFE and emissions standards that neither company can meet, but which Ford is just steps away from without government support!

jw



posted on Jun, 2 2009 @ 01:05 PM
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reply to post by jdub297
 


There is a trucking outfit either in N.C. or Georgia (Its been a long time since I researched it) has been doing this for 20 yrs or more. They get 10-12+ MPG plus less breakdown of the lubricants used and much cleaner engine wiothout all the addons that the EPA is demanding. This also dosen't break down the gaskets or fuel systems in the older engines, or need the expensive fuel additives.

Zindo



posted on Jun, 2 2009 @ 01:08 PM
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Wooops, looks like they are using methanol plus water in diesels now:

Water-ethanol injection for diesels

Zindo



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